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Mad Lust Envy's Headphone Gaming Guide: (3/18/2016: MrSpeakers Ether C 1.1 Added) - Page 227

post #3391 of 37467
Quote:
Originally Posted by BababooeyHTJ View Post


How does your music sound when you leave on cmss3d or the like by mistake? To me its worse, far worse than a low bitrate recording. Why do you find that acceptable for gaming?

 

While not directed at me, my personal experience with DH, not CMSS-3D yes the fidelity of the sound goes down a bit but the positional accuracy greatly outweighs the slight drop in detail.

 

Again, this is gaming, not music. In the competitive sense,. where bullets and footsteps are coming from is far more critical information to the player, than how good bullets and footsteps sound.

 

And just for clarification, Dolby Headphone and CMSS-3D are completely different technologies, which as expected produce different results. You can't compare apples to oranges and get accurate data.


Edited by Riku540 - 1/21/12 at 3:31pm
post #3392 of 37467

Yes, but in the other 95% of games that aren't competitive to me it breaks the immersion. Which seems to be peoples beef with the AD700 here. Going back to the music, games have music. In Serious Sam 3 which I've recently been playing the muffled music just sounded awful to me. I had to turn down the sound since it was giving me a headache with cmss3d. Another example is the wildly popular Skyrim. If I'm in the mountains of Skyrim it shouldn't sound like I'm in a basement. To me that sounds ridiculous. Even on the "competitive scene" not all competitive games require footstep placement like wow, SC2, LoL, ect. If you don't mind the hit in SQ and competitive accuracy is all that matters then why would you need any more than the AD700 or A700? Like I said I'm just trying to understand the line. 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riku540 View Post

 

While not directed at me, my personal experience with DH, not CMSS-3D yes the fidelity of the sound goes down a bit but the positional accuracy greatly outweighs the slight drop in detail.

 

Again, this is gaming, not music. In the competitive sense,. where bullets and footsteps are coming from is far more critical information to the player, than how good bullets and footsteps sound.

 

And just for clarification, Dolby Headphone and CMSS-3D are completely different technologies, which as expected produce different results. You can't compare apples to oranges and get accurate data.

 


Edited by BababooeyHTJ - 1/21/12 at 3:37pm
post #3393 of 37467
Quote:
Originally Posted by BababooeyHTJ View Post


Slight, the sound is completely muffled with cmss3d. How does your music sound when you leave on cmss3d or the like by mistake? To me its worse, far worse than a low bitrate recording. Why do you find that acceptable for gaming? This is a forum where the mantra on the AD700 is that its no good for immersive single player gaming due to its lack of bass. I'll say this, my AD700 in pure stereo sounds better than my HD598 (which I love) with cmss3d. I'm just trying to understand where people draw the line.

 

I agree with the hard pan left to right in too many games but imo its the lesser of two evils. In the time that I played around with THX tru-studio on my titanium hd it seemed like a better compromise. 



 



I leave cmss3d off for music. For gaming, having a hard left-right pan is completely unacceptable. It's incredibly annoying to only have sound coming from one ear. When playing Skyrim you can have voices coming from one ear or the other, unless you are facing directly at them. Try plugging one ear for a while. It's seriously annoying.

post #3394 of 37467

Yes, I agree that is a problem in Skyrim. That doesn't seem to be an issue in most games though. At least from what I've seen. Well, as much of an issue anyways. Then there is still music in Skyrim that with cmss3d doesn't really sound very good. You also still have that muffled sound. So its still a pretty hefty compromise. 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rebel975 View Post



I leave cmss3d off for music. For gaming, having a hard left-right pan is completely unacceptable. It's incredibly annoying to only have sound coming from one ear. When playing Skyrim you can have voices coming from one ear or the other, unless you are facing directly at them. Try plugging one ear for a while. It's seriously annoying.



 


Edited by BababooeyHTJ - 1/21/12 at 3:51pm
post #3395 of 37467

IMO, playing in stereo is a pretty hefty compromise.

post #3396 of 37467

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riku540 View Post

As far as DH vs. CMSS-3D goes, to each his own I guess.

 

My primary goal was defending virtual surround's benefits over stereo, in which many here complained CMSS-3D didn't quite cut it, but picking up an Astro Mixamp was an entirely different experience. But not everyone will reach the same conclusion.

 

So my point is, why do we invest money in virtual surround equipment? Because most of us in this thread do find it to be more accurate and beneficial than stereo. Why would we invest money in something we personally don't believe in?

 


Well, it doesn't help CMSS-3D Headphone any that Creative doesn't make it obvious how to set it up properly. Most people will never see that page, and it's kind of baffling that the drivers don't automatically change the Windows speaker setting to begin with. Then there's the different technologies that use the CMSS-3D label...for those reasons, I think it gets a lot of misguided flak from people who haven't set it up properly.

 

But if you have set it up properly and still don't like it as much, I can respect that. With any technology that relies on the listener's unique HRTF and can only use a generic/average HRTF with no customization to suit each listener, your mileage WILL vary. Sometimes people give me the impression that they wouldn't be satisfied with anything short of the Smyth Realiser, and with the $3,000+ price tag, forget that!

 

At least we're in agreement on one thing; gaming with a binaural surround filter provides immense advantages over stereo with simple left/right panning when you absolutely, positively have to know where every gunshot, footstep, and explosion came from.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BababooeyHTJ View Post

Yes, but in the other 95% of games that aren't competitive to me it breaks the immersion. Which seems to be peoples beef with the AD700 here. Going back to the music, games have music.

 

In Serious Sam 3 which I've recently been playing the muffled music just sounded awful to me. I had to turn down the sound since it was giving me a headache with cmss3d.

 

Another example is the wildly popular Skyrim. If I'm in the mountains of Skyrim it shouldn't sound like I'm in a basement. To me that sounds ridiculous.

 

Even on the "competitive scene" not all competitive games require footstep placement like wow, SC2, LoL, ect. If you don't mind the hit in SQ and competitive accuracy is all that matters then why would you need any more than the AD700 or A700? Like I said I'm just trying to understand the line. 


While I would certainly like clearer music, when it comes to something like Serious Sam, I'd rather have the positional audio advantages so that I don't accidentally back up into a charging Sirian Werebull when running from Beheaded Kamikazes or god knows what else in that game, given how it always surrounds you and attacks you from all angles. Plus, it's actually sort of more immersive to hear sounds coming at you from all directions instead of just from your exact left and right.

 

As for Skyrim, it doesn't ever sound like I'm in a basement. The only things that would make it sound like I'm in a basement are Dolby Headphone's DH3 mode and global room/EAX presets that should be off at all times, because of the ridiculous amount of reverb added. (I'm not even going to get into the debate about Skyrim's sound mastering quality right now.)

 

And regarding those games you mentioned that have overhead or non-1st/3rd-person perspectives, I actually do turn CMSS-3D Headphone off in those cases, precisely because it's not giving me any locational benefits in those cases. Problem is, I play a lot of 1st/3rd-person games, so at least having the option would be nice.

 

Finally, about people having issues with the AD700, I just chalk that up to them not liking open headphones or wanting more bass, what with the AD700 being the very antithesis of a basshead headphone and all. There might be other reasons I've overlooked, though, but if there's one thing I know, no one headphone suits everyone's sound signature preferences.

post #3397 of 37467
post #3398 of 37467

I use DH on my Xbox and CMSS-3D on the computer. Which should I choose in the poll? Not like it really matters. Some people like virtual surround technologies and some people don't.

 

As far as I see it you may as well make a poll that says something like, "Are you a basshead or a treblehead?" It's interesting to see the results, but nothing but personal preferences can be had from them.

post #3399 of 37467

Can the 250 OHM run with only a mixamp? Could I plug them into an iphone/ipod?
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riku540 View Post

 

If you get the DT 990 600 ohm you probably will need a separate desktop amplifier. Even with built in amplifiers, nothing can ever substitute for a truly dedicated desktop amp. Any solid state will do; E9, Asgard, I wouldn't go overboard for the sake of gaming though. Honestly I would not go this route unless you plan to use this rig for music too. Otherwise, go for 250 or 32 ohm; the difference is hardly audible if audible at all. My recommendation would be different if the 600 ohm version was clearly superior to the other models, but in this case you really have to A/B them carefully.

 

If you get a sound card you will not need a Mixamp, as the Mixamp in a PC configuration is the sound card.



 

post #3400 of 37467
Quote:
Originally Posted by BababooeyHTJ View Post

Yes, but in the other 95% of games that aren't competitive to me it breaks the immersion. Which seems to be peoples beef with the AD700 here. Going back to the music, games have music. In Serious Sam 3 which I've recently been playing the muffled music just sounded awful to me. I had to turn down the sound since it was giving me a headache with cmss3d. Another example is the wildly popular Skyrim. If I'm in the mountains of Skyrim it shouldn't sound like I'm in a basement. To me that sounds ridiculous. Even on the "competitive scene" not all competitive games require footstep placement like wow, SC2, LoL, ect. If you don't mind the hit in SQ and competitive accuracy is all that matters then why would you need any more than the AD700 or A700? Like I said I'm just trying to understand the line. 


You have the wrong impression. I am speaking strictly competitive/cooperative gaming terms, where winning and losing matters. Most people come to this thread in search of a competitive edge, and the solution we give them is virtual surround.

 

On the other hand, I have Platinumed Skyrim on PS3 and working for it again on PC. Every second played was in stereo.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jghost23 View Post

Can the 250 OHM run with only a mixamp? Could I plug them into an iphone/ipod?

 

250 ohm should be fine out of the Mixamp. Before MLE got his E9, he used the DT 990 600 ohm straight into the Mixamp, and "cheated" the volume but turning the voice/game dial all the way to game. 250 ohms will not be ideal for iPhone/iPod however.

 

I personally own the DT 880 32 ohm, and have no regrets. I like the flexibility of being able to use it with various devices, and if I really want to get serious on clarity and detail, I have my PRO 900's.


Edited by Riku540 - 1/21/12 at 4:50pm
post #3401 of 37467

I am going to be listening to music with this setup. I'm not investing hundreds of dollars just to hear foot steps beyersmile.png  The reason I want the 600 ohm DT990 is because the treble is known to be smoother on them compared to the 32 and 250. I like treble but it can't be harsh thus I need the 600 ohm. Also the 600 ohm drivers will last years longer than the 32 or 250 ohm drivers.

 

If 80mw at 600 ohms isn't good enough for a pair of head phones that have a max power rating of 100mw at 600 ohm. Then I can get the $30 or less xonar that doesn't have the powerfull headphone amp and buy or build a nice headphone amp to power the headphones. But is there a sound card that puts Dolby headphone over the line out? If not then what?

 

 

post #3402 of 37467

Unfortunately DSP is performed at the amp stage, which means you will never get virtual surround through any kind of line out.

post #3403 of 37467

I think I've heard there are some creative cards that put out there virtual surround throu the line out. Isn't there some kind of external dac or something that would handle the virtual surround if need be? I know there is a way to get proper virtual surround throu an amp. Also if MLE was able to get the mix amp to power the dt 990 600 ohm then I'm sure the xonar st can.

post #3404 of 37467

If there is a way to get virtual surround through a proper line out then I don't know anyone that is aware of it. I don't know the specifics, but it is my understanding that DSP is tied into the process where amplification is performed (in this case, just a standard headphone jack is still considered an amp, though a weak one) and therefore impossible to get such a signal through a line out as proper line outs bypass all other processes in order to pass on the purest and cleanest possible signal. If you do find out otherwise please share.

 

The way the Mixamp could "power" the DT 990 600 was by turning both the overall volume way up alongside with turning the game/voice ratio all the way to game. Depending on the output levels of the Xonar, you might not get the same result by simply adjusting the volume levels accordingly in your mixer. Having multiple volume adjusters in itself already affects audio quality.

 

In any case, this succeeds in driving the DT 990 600 ohm to proper volume levels, but not necessarily to full potential sound quality.


Edited by Riku540 - 1/21/12 at 7:59pm
post #3405 of 37467

Given the choice which one do you prefer? I would be interested to hear what someone experienced with both Dolby hp and cmss3d has to say about how they compare. 

 

I just played around with a few games and I did find that cmss3d sounded really good in Stalker clear sky, that was a nice step up. I still say that its a big step down in SS3 BFE.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebel975 View Post

I use DH on my Xbox and CMSS-3D on the computer. Which should I choose in the poll? Not like it really matters. Some people like virtual surround technologies and some people don't.

 

As far as I see it you may as well make a poll that says something like, "Are you a basshead or a treblehead?" It's interesting to see the results, but nothing but personal preferences can be had from them.



 

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