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Mad Lust Envy's Headphone Gaming Guide: (3/18/2016: MrSpeakers Ether C 1.1 Added) - Page 226

post #3376 of 37462

Lol no problem. I appreciate your replies. I'm probably driving you nuts with all the questions. So I basically won't get the benefits of the AKG's Q70s if I don't get that $250 amp or at least an amp better than the E9 (on top of the mixamp of course). I'm curious how my wireless would work... with an additional amp. I assume it would just connect to the RX piece.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

I mentioned this prior to your arrival here, I only got rid of the K701 because they were hard to drive, so I went to the HD598 which are to me, inferior, but easier to drive. Then I changed them for the even more inferior PC360 because of the practicality.
Sorry for the double post.


 

post #3377 of 37462
Thread Starter 
Dude, the Q701 with the E9 would probably be close to the same as the K701 with a warm amp. And yes, the Rx Unit's 3.5mm out to the amp's line in.
post #3378 of 37462

Alright then. Sexy Avy. I should have the PC 360s wednesday so I'll let you know how they sound to me. Thanks for all your information thus far.

post #3379 of 37462

So, first impressions of the DT 770 Pro 80s w/ the mixamp... and I'm not yet sure what to think lol, I was expecting muddy and I got it, yet to properly test them but tried them with a few demo's yesterday + a BF3 mission and they were good, but once everything got going the excellent positioning went out the window. Still got to properly test them out though.

 

I dunno what it is, with every headphone I've bought since the AD700s I've just not been as happy as I was with them lol, now I'm hearing the Q701s are basically better AD700s which has definitely peaked my interest, just over here they cost $432 (£278) and for a student that is a lot of money, then again my 21st birthday is coming up... lol

 

I'll stick with the DT 770s and give a bit more of a go, hopefully I'll fall in love with them.

post #3380 of 37462
Thread Starter 
My D7000 comes in on Monday, wooooot.

rabidgamer, I warned of the muddiness... frown.gif

But give them a chance. With the right games, they sound incredible.
post #3381 of 37462

MLE, about the modmic- it was in a PM a couple months ago.  Maybe it didn't go through.

 

I said a page or two ago that the Q701 doesn't need an external amp when used with the mixamp.  If people are shopping for Q701s for gaming, I would wait on the amp (for music, bring on the DAC/amp).  They perform like you would expect 62ohm headphone to IMO.  The K70x is probably different.

 

I have some DT990/600s coming soon, so I can compare them with the Q701.  I'm expecting a sidegrade, a "V" response vs the flatter Qs, and also some soundstage differences.  If they're like the DT880s, they will probably have more soundstage depth than the Qs.  I remember the DT880s having good depth.  Qs will probably have more width and taller soundstage. 

 

The Q701 are definitely warmer and bassier than the PC360s.  I don't think the Q's are necessarily better than the PC360s for competitive gaming though - same for AD700s.  Positioning on the PC360s is great (on par with the Qs), and PC360s have more high and upper mid emphasis.  The whole soundstage is shifted closer on the Qs, and shifted farther back on PC360s and AD700s.  Like the Qs do better close soundstage, while the other two aren't as good at close, but have slightly farther sounding soundstage instead.  I think the Qs may have better vertical soundstage positioning.  The Q's image objects to be bigger.  They are "taller" sounding than either PC360 or AD700.  PC360s is the shortest of the three, AD700 is taller, and Q701 is the tallest I've tried. 

 

I mainly just find the Q701 sound sig more enjoyable. 

 

Q701s sound different than AD700s.  Soundstage is a little smaller on the Q's (although better height and close soundstage), and positioning isn't quite as good.  You would probably be suprised at how warm/dark they are coming from AD700s.  It takes a bit getting used to, but then they sound fine.  This happens anytime you switch from a cold to dark headphone, but the AD700s are REALLY cold and have lots of treble emphasis.  I can't take the AD700's sound for some games, it's too bright/metallic.  The sub and mid bass on the Q's is very welcome. 

 

 

I'm still tempted to try some K70x and see if they're different.  If the DT990s don't work out (which is quite possible due to the ear cups), I will probably swap them for some K70x and compare them.  I would expect them to be slightly colder/leaner with slightly larger soundstage.  Even if the differences were considered improvements (which they may not be), the K70x would probably require another amp - which the Q's dont....  :\


Edited by chicolom - 1/21/12 at 10:12am
post #3382 of 37462

This thread just past its one year anniversary a couple days ago beerchug.gif

post #3383 of 37462

Does dolby headphone sound as bad as cmss-3d? I don't mean to sound like a troll but if you're concerned with audio quality to the point of spending several hundred dollars on headphones then why would you use an audio processing technique that butchers sound quality as much as cmss-3d does. To top it off don't most games do a pretty good job with positional cues in stereo mode?

post #3384 of 37462
Quote:
Originally Posted by BababooeyHTJ View Post

Does dolby headphone sound as bad as cmss-3d? I don't mean to sound like a troll but if you're concerned with audio quality to the point of spending several hundred dollars on headphones then why would you use an audio processing technique that butchers sound quality as much as cmss-3d does. To top it off don't most games do a pretty good job with positional cues in stereo mode?

 

It's been discussed to death throughout this thread and even before this thread's existence that Dolby Headphone is greatly superior to both CMSS-3D and stereo.

 

Nobody says you have to take our word for it, but there wouldn't be much merit or credibility to this thread, nor hundreds of people who can vouch for it here.


Edited by Riku540 - 1/21/12 at 1:00pm
post #3385 of 37462

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BababooeyHTJ View Post

Does dolby headphone sound as bad as cmss-3d? I don't mean to sound like a troll but if you're concerned with audio quality to the point of spending several hundred dollars on headphones then why would you use an audio processing technique that butchers sound quality as much as cmss-3d does. To top it off don't most games do a pretty good job with positional cues in stereo mode?


They sound similar to me (tested with JVC/Victor SU-DH1 fed via X-Fi Titanium HD with Dolby Digital Live turned on) in games with software audio engines, though in games that use DirectSound3D or OpenAL, it's not even close. Virtual 7.1 can't match a full 3D binaural sound space.

 

Stereo mode in games only provides left-to-right panning to my ears. There's no good sense of front or rear, let alone high and low. Needless to say, I don't like that at all. However, some people are willing to play in pure stereo just because they can't take the sound quality hit, and that's fine. Everyone can game their own way without forcing their tastes on everyone else; it's all just suggestion.

 

Unfortunately, I haven't found a binaural surround filter that provides the positional advantages without muffling the sound so much, but I can live with CMSS-3D Headphone for now. Whatever the case, Creative needs more competition, but their biggest competitors (Aureal and Sensaura) got bought out (which is likely why Creative even has CMSS-3D Headphone in the first place), and now PC gaming audio has taken a turn for the worse as developers worked around Creative in a way I never expected, that being software-driven audio with all the attention on 7.1 and no binaural mixing options given for us headphone users.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riku540 View Post

It's been discussed to death throughout this thread and even before this thread's existence that Dolby Headphone is greatly superior to both CMSS-3D and stereo.

 

Nobody says you have to take our word for it, but there wouldn't be much merit or credibility to this thread, nor hundreds of people who can vouch for it here.

 

Then why is my experience the exact opposite of that? Dolby Headphone provides less sense of distance and no sense of height whatsoever in DirectSound3D and OpenAL titles, because it's only presenting virtual 7.1 instead of the full binaural 3D sound those games can offer, and which CMSS-3D Headphone willingly taps into. I can't think of any other explanation. If DH treated every sound source in those games as an individual speaker located anywhere in 3D space, maybe things would be different and possibly in DH's favor.

 

In games that downmix all the sound to 7.1 anyway (thank Microsoft's new, inferior XAudio2 + X3DAudio API for that, along with newer versions of FMOD enforcing software mixing), I can't tell enough of a difference to vote one way or the other, though these games already sound worse than those that use DirectSound3D or OpenAL in terms of positioning anyway.

 

If you ask me, the reason why Dolby Headphone is the technology of choice here is simple: Mad Lust Envy is a console-only gamer. CMSS-3D Headphone is used on PC sound cards for PC games, not for products geared toward consoles. By contrast, several DAC/DSP devices are floating around that offer Dolby Headphone for console gamers. Which one do you think he'll use?

 

Anyway, this thread is at least useful for finding out which headphones work well with either technology. If it works well with DH, it works well with CMSS-3D too.


Edited by NamelessPFG - 1/21/12 at 1:23pm
post #3386 of 37462

Gaming in pure stereo is horrible. Hard left/right pans when you turn your character... ugh. I'll take a slight SQ hit for much better positioning.

post #3387 of 37462
Quote:
Originally Posted by NamelessPFG View Post

Then why is my experience the exact opposite of that?

 

As far as DH vs. CMSS-3D goes, to each his own I guess.

 

My primary goal was defending virtual surround's benefits over stereo, in which many here complained CMSS-3D didn't quite cut it, but picking up an Astro Mixamp was an entirely different experience. But not everyone will reach the same conclusion.

 

So my point is, why do we invest money in virtual surround equipment? Because most of us in this thread do find it to be more accurate and beneficial than stereo. Why would we invest money in something we personally don't believe in?


Edited by Riku540 - 1/21/12 at 1:37pm
post #3388 of 37462

Here is my deal: I want the best gaming / music headphone setup on a Windows 7 PC. I'm looking at this as a decade long or more investment and my budget for this is quite good, but I don't like spending my money so I would like to be a little frugal but not too frugal that I would miss something for just a couple hundred dollars for the next decade or more. 

 

I have pretty much decided on the Beyerdynamic DT 990 600 ohm headphones and acquiring and modding a used Sennheiser HD 555 for a second option to switch to now and then.

Right now I have an old Razer Barracuda sound card that takes away fps but works "ok" otherwise. I would like a new sound card.

 

I have been looking at the Asus Xonar St PCI sound card and see it has a built in headphone amp rated for 80mw on a 600ohm load. The Dt990 have a 100mw max to my understanding. It looks as tho that sound card would drive the DT990 pretty well. Also the new Asus ROG Xonar Phoebus sound card is set to be released "soon" I think and seems to have upgraded features.

 

My Questions: Would the Dt 990 and the xonar sound card be enough? Do I need a desktop amplifier? If so should it be a Schiit or a self built like the SOHA 2 or a Bijou? Do I need the Mix Amp if I use a sound card? If so is the astro the right choice? Is the asus xonar line the correct choice for the sound card?

 

Also for those of you that game from a console you may want to check out the Asus ThunderFX it seems like this does what the mix amp does but with a built in headphone amp. I'm really confused by this mix amp. I think that is where I'm confused the most and then amplifiers but I'm not real sure on the sound card either.

 

Thank you for reading my questions.

 

post #3389 of 37462
Quote:
Originally Posted by livingplastic View Post

Here is my deal: I want the best gaming / music headphone setup on a Windows 7 PC. I'm looking at this as a decade long or more investment and my budget for this is quite good, but I don't like spending my money so I would like to be a little frugal but not too frugal that I would miss something for just a couple hundred dollars for the next decade or more. 

 

I have pretty much decided on the Beyerdynamic DT 990 600 ohm headphones and acquiring and modding a used Sennheiser HD 555 for a second option to switch to now and then.

Right now I have an old Razer Barracuda sound card that takes away fps but works "ok" otherwise. I would like a new sound card.

 

I have been looking at the Asus Xonar St PCI sound card and see it has a built in headphone amp rated for 80mw on a 600ohm load. The Dt990 have a 100mw max to my understanding. It looks as tho that sound card would drive the DT990 pretty well. Also the new Asus ROG Xonar Phoebus sound card is set to be released "soon" I think and seems to have upgraded features.

 

My Questions: Would the Dt 990 and the xonar sound card be enough? Do I need a desktop amplifier? If so should it be a Schiit or a self built like the SOHA 2 or a Bijou? Do I need the Mix Amp if I use a sound card? If so is the astro the right choice? Is the asus xonar line the correct choice for the sound card?

 

Also for those of you that game from a console you may want to check out the Asus ThunderFX it seems like this does what the mix amp does but with a built in headphone amp. I'm really confused by this mix amp. I think that is where I'm confused the most and then amplifiers but I'm not real sure on the sound card either.

 

Thank you for reading my questions.

 

If you get the DT 990 600 ohm you probably will need a separate desktop amplifier. Even with built in amplifiers, nothing can ever substitute for a truly dedicated desktop amp. Any solid state will do; E9, Asgard, I wouldn't go overboard for the sake of gaming though. Honestly I would not go this route unless you plan to use this rig for music too. Otherwise, go for 250 or 32 ohm; the difference is hardly audible if audible at all. My recommendation would be different if the 600 ohm version was clearly superior to the other models, but in this case you really have to A/B them carefully.

 

If you get a sound card you will not need a Mixamp, as the Mixamp in a PC configuration is the sound card.

post #3390 of 37462


Slight, the sound is completely muffled with cmss3d. How does your music sound when you leave on cmss3d or the like by mistake? To me its worse, far worse than a low bitrate recording. Why do you find that acceptable for gaming? This is a forum where the mantra on the AD700 is that its no good for immersive single player gaming due to its lack of bass. I'll say this, my AD700 in pure stereo sounds better than my HD598 (which I love) with cmss3d. I'm just trying to understand where people draw the line.

 

I agree with the hard pan left to right in too many games but imo its the lesser of two evils. In the time that I played around with THX tru-studio on my titanium hd it seemed like a better compromise. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebel975 View Post

Gaming in pure stereo is horrible. Hard left/right pans when you turn your character... ugh. I'll take a slight SQ hit for much better positioning.



 

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