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Mad Lust Envy's Headphone Gaming Guide: (3/18/2016: MrSpeakers Ether C 1.1 Added) - Page 1520

post #22786 of 37937
Thread Starter 
Yeah, output impedance is a spec that is rarely stated.
post #22787 of 37937
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

Yeah, output impedance is a spec that is rarely stated.

Maybe I'll get around to emailing them at some point when I can be bothered. To me they sound good, but I don't know how good they should or can sound. In time I'll get myself an amp to test them out with and then I'll know what to expect from them.

post #22788 of 37937
Quote:
Originally Posted by grumpy1471 View Post

The fact that I'm unable to get PayPal was another reason I can't buy used off here eek.gif . Should have mentioned that tongue.gif

So, you're new here, and for some reason you're not allowed to use Paypal? Are you accounting for the exchange rate between Canadian and US dollar?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Napalmhardcore View Post

Thanks. I'll have a look and see if I can find more detailed specs on the Omni. I find this subject quite confusing, and like I said, not having heard the K240's under ideal circumstances means I don't know what they should sound like at their best.

The sound may improve a bit with an amp, but don't get too hung up on the output impedance thing. It was started by a guy who got banned for publicly starting a flame war against representatives of a gear manufacturer over an issue that missed the bigger picture. He tested one or two Sennheisers, found those headphones to have increased bass response (presence but also a bit of bloat), and then assumed/concluded that would be the case for all headphones. If a headphone has a linear impedance curve, then the output impedance of an amp will have little effect at all.

I wouldn't worry much about output impedance, just worry if an amp supplies ample current and if it has low distortion, THOSE factors make a difference that is easily heard. And again, small differences between amps (especially modern solid-state amps), bigger difference between headphones. If you keep reading different parts of head-fi (amp reviews, Sound Science forum), you'll pick up more advanced stuff eventually, but you don't need to rush it. I often find newbie "Objectivists" who miss the forest for the trees, and many pass along hearsay without explaining, for example many can't answer if asked "What actually happens if you don't follow the 1/8th 'rule'?"

Edit: If you entertain the idea that a good amp makes a (nice, positive,) small improvement, would you trust me when I say that if it sounds very good, you don't have to worry about 1/8th impedance? The end goal is "Does it sound good," not "Does it have all the 'right' numbers?"
Edited by Evshrug - 4/10/14 at 12:45am
post #22789 of 37937

Thanks for the advice, Evshrug.

 

I read a guide here on Head-fi about impedance. It started with a nice analogy related to water going through a hose to a sprinkler. I understood what he was saying there, but then he started using algebraic formulas, I then went cross eyed and started bleeding from the ears and nose.

 

I'm trying not to get hung up on the impedance thing, but the only reason I am concerned about it is wanting to ensure I'm getting decent performance out of what is fairly expensive equipment (compared to what I've used before).

 

My time here recently on Head-fi has also made me want to get back into buying more music again. I used to regularly buy CDs, but about ten years ago I had a CD case stolen that contained a large chunk of my collection. I'm not sure why, but after that I've barely bought any music. I'm now looking to buy all those albums (not all at once) that I've never got around to listening to but feel I should have. Hence, buying a decent amp is becoming something that interests me :)

 

Edit: I should note that my average volume on the Omni is between 15-20 percent. I have not noticed any distortion. The only issue I have had was when playing Dishonored, but this issue was present when sound was output through the speakers and I found others have had problems with the audio too, so I'm guessing it's the game.


Edited by Napalmhardcore - 4/10/14 at 1:29am
post #22790 of 37937
The only issue I had with my Omni was a rhythmic popping while using a mic in borderlands 2... otherwise it's been fine. Could be related that I only did a standard uninstall of my SoundBlaster Z drivers before installing the Omni ones.

Thing is, I believe the O2 and ODAC are very good products. I even borrowed an ODAC once, but something about my system prevented it from working. However, a lot of the stuff about "why choose THIS amp" sounds like old scare tactics to encourage sales, and I still don't understand WHY the designer spent all that time on "no proceeds for the designer" products and blog posts that cast most other products in bad light. I know what that sounds like, and I know there is some fairly good learning that can be had on his blog, but some of the things he concludes don't match up with my experiences and other Head-Fi'ers in the sound science forums and amp appreciation threads have pointed out the bigger scope of things. And I looked up impedance curves, I learned the history of impedance "matching", and quite simply the short of it is: the 1/8th rule is more of a guideline, only applies some of the time, and surprisingly most of my headphones are unaffected and the one that should be still sounds good.

I'm always willing to reconsider my thoughts with good evidence, I'm not an expert, but other people should also exercise critical thinking IMO.

/rant
post #22791 of 37937

I have a question regarding connecting the headphones so a receiver\amp.

I've decided to buy the OG CAL and after keep reading the posts here I thought about buying an amp (I need to read\listen about DH\THX\SBX a little more). My question is, both my XBOX360 and PS3 are connected via HDMI to a Denon receiver which capable of playing DTS sound (etc.) but not supporting DH. If I connect my headphones directly to the receiver (using the phones audio output) will it be the same as if I connect the headphones to a HD\THX\SBX amp? Or the receiver will just output a stereo sound?

If I still need to buy an amp in order to hear Surround sound i'll appreciate any recommendation for a budget (~50$) amp.

Thanks!

post #22792 of 37937
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evshrug View Post


So, you're new here, and for some reason you're not allowed to use Paypal? Are you accounting for the exchange rate between Canadian and US dollar?

Does me being new here somehow directly correlate with my ability to obtain a Paypal account? The exchange rate isn't an issue whatsoever. I just can't sign up (at least not yet) without risking my account being frozen. 

post #22793 of 37937

600ohm impedance means that the headphone amp will power headphones up to 600ohm.. p.s just went to buy a game for my ps4 from my local game shop and I couldn't even find one worth buying,I had to pre order watchdogs to get the 1 hour extra gameplay..i will download outlast, it was free with psn+ not that long ago but I will have to pay for it now!


Edited by martin vegas - 4/10/14 at 9:24am
post #22794 of 37937
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach1508 View Post
 

I have a question regarding connecting the headphones so a receiver\amp.

I've decided to buy the OG CAL and after keep reading the posts here I thought about buying an amp (I need to read\listen about DH\THX\SBX a little more). My question is, both my XBOX360 and PS3 are connected via HDMI to a Denon receiver which capable of playing DTS sound (etc.) but not supporting DH. If I connect my headphones directly to the receiver (using the phones audio output) will it be the same as if I connect the headphones to a HD\THX\SBX amp? Or the receiver will just output a stereo sound?

If I still need to buy an amp in order to hear Surround sound i'll appreciate any recommendation for a budget (~50$) amp.

Thanks!

It should tell you in the manual of your receiver whether it does virtual surround. For example, my Yamaha receiver uses Silent Cinema (Yamaha's equivalent to DH). If it doesn't say anything about such a technology, I would assume it only outputs stereo.

post #22795 of 37937
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evshrug View Post

The only issue I had with my Omni was a rhythmic popping while using a mic in borderlands 2... otherwise it's been fine. Could be related that I only did a standard uninstall of my SoundBlaster Z drivers before installing the Omni ones.

Thing is, I believe the O2 and ODAC are very good products. I even borrowed an ODAC once, but something about my system prevented it from working. However, a lot of the stuff about "why choose THIS amp" sounds like old scare tactics to encourage sales, and I still don't understand WHY the designer spent all that time on "no proceeds for the designer" products and blog posts that cast most other products in bad light. I know what that sounds like, and I know there is some fairly good learning that can be had on his blog, but some of the things he concludes don't match up with my experiences and other Head-Fi'ers in the sound science forums and amp appreciation threads have pointed out the bigger scope of things. And I looked up impedance curves, I learned the history of impedance "matching", and quite simply the short of it is: the 1/8th rule is more of a guideline, only applies some of the time, and surprisingly most of my headphones are unaffected and the one that should be still sounds good.

I'm always willing to reconsider my thoughts with good evidence, I'm not an expert, but other people should also exercise critical thinking IMO.

/rant

Hmm, the issue with Dishonored could be described as popping (personally I'd describe it as a "tuk" noise). It was most obvious on the level where you go to a costume party. There is the sound of fireworks in the background, it is when these sounds are playing when the problem is at its worst, but it was present in the previous level too. I think it is a case of the audio clipping for some reason.

 

I appreciate the virtue of critical thinking, however this is something that can only be done with experience. At the moment my only reference is the equipment I have, so there is no way of me knowing if it is under-performing. You often hear of people who say things like "I thought my old (insert product here) was good until I tried this. I could never go back to it now that I've experienced (insert new product here)".

 

Edit: I was trying to edit my previous post and add this... but I failed. Sorry for the double post.


Edited by Napalmhardcore - 4/10/14 at 9:47am
post #22796 of 37937
Quote:
Originally Posted by Napalmhardcore View Post
 

Thanks for the advice, Evshrug.

 

I read a guide here on Head-fi about impedance. It started with a nice analogy related to water going through a hose to a sprinkler. I understood what he was saying there, but then he started using algebraic formulas, I then went cross eyed and started bleeding from the ears and nose.

 

I'm trying not to get hung up on the impedance thing, but the only reason I am concerned about it is wanting to ensure I'm getting decent performance out of what is fairly expensive equipment (compared to what I've used before).

 

My time here recently on Head-fi has also made me want to get back into buying more music again. I used to regularly buy CDs, but about ten years ago I had a CD case stolen that contained a large chunk of my collection. I'm not sure why, but after that I've barely bought any music. I'm now looking to buy all those albums (not all at once) that I've never got around to listening to but feel I should have. Hence, buying a decent amp is becoming something that interests me :)

 

Edit: I should note that my average volume on the Omni is between 15-20 percent. I have not noticed any distortion. The only issue I have had was when playing Dishonored, but this issue was present when sound was output through the speakers and I found others have had problems with the audio too, so I'm guessing it's the game.

 

Ev's advice is sound (no pun intended).  Go for what sounds good to your ears more than anything else.  If you think it sounds good, why worry about abstract math?

 

That said... I got my amp in last night (because change is good) and the change with the Q701 is noticeable.  (I too was running off the Sound Blaster Omni.)  It's really true that you don't know what they're capable of until you amp them.  They didn't sound bad before, but they sound really good now!

 

My point?  If you're satified now, don't bother.  If you want to upgrade because you're feeling the itch, an amp will definitely serve you well.  I'm sure any of the inexpensive ones in the guide will be fine (E12, Magni/Vali, E09K, O2).

 

Quote:

I appreciate the virtue of critical thinking, however this is something that can only be done with experience. At the moment my only reference is the equipment I have, so there is no way of me knowing if it is under-performing. You often hear of people who say things like "I thought my old (insert product here) was good until I tried this. I could never go back to it now that I've experienced (insert new product here)".

 

Dude, I've learned to be really careful of that quote.  It's almost always true, and not always for the better.  For example, when I finally dropped some real cash on a nice suspension for my motorcycle, it was night and day.  I had no idea what I was missing and I could never go back.  Now I HAVE to spend money for a nice suspension on every bike because I hate the feel of a crappy suspension.  It's expensive!

 

If you're satisfied with your current sound, be careful about upgrading or you may never want to go back!  lol


Edited by Stillhart - 4/10/14 at 9:51am
post #22797 of 37937
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillhart View Post
 

 

Ev's advice is sound (no pun intended).  Go for what sounds good to your ears more than anything else.  If you think it sounds good, why worry about abstract math?

 

That said... I got my amp in last night (because change is good) and the change with the Q701 is noticeable.  (I too was running off the Sound Blaster Omni.)  It's really true that you don't know what they're capable of until you amp them.  They didn't sound bad before, but they sound really good now!

 

My point?  If you're satified now, don't bother.  If you want to upgrade because you're feeling the itch, an amp will definitely serve you well.  I'm sure any of the inexpensive ones in the guide will be fine (E12, Magni/Vali, E09K, O2).

 

 

Dude, I've learned to be really careful of that quote.  It's almost always true, and not always for the better.  For example, when I finally dropped some real cash on a nice suspension for my motorcycle, it was night and day.  I had no idea what I was missing and I could never go back.  Now I HAVE to spend money for a nice suspension on every bike because I hate the feel of a crappy suspension.  It's expensive!

 

If you're satisfied with your current sound, be careful about upgrading or you may never want to go back!  lol

Itchy, must scratch itch! lol

 

I get the impression that head-fi is a gathering place for itchy people.

post #22798 of 37937
Quote:
Originally Posted by Napalmhardcore View Post
 

Itchy, must scratch itch! lol

 

I get the impression that head-fi is a gathering place for itchy people.

It is...

post #22799 of 37937
Quote:
Originally Posted by Napalmhardcore View Post
 

Itchy, must scratch itch! lol

 

I get the impression that head-fi is a gathering place for itchy people.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by conquerator2 View Post
 

It is...

 

It is... a place that MAKES people itchy!  >.<

post #22800 of 37937
Quote:
Originally Posted by grumpy1471 View Post

Does me being new here somehow directly correlate with my ability to obtain a Paypal account? The exchange rate isn't an issue whatsoever. I just can't sign up (at least not yet) without risking my account being frozen. 
What I meant was
A.) You are new here, so a seller has no record of your interactions/reputation, which might be okay, except
B.) there's some reason you can't sign up for paypal, which is like 3rd party insurance for buyer and seller.

I totally understand wanting to find a deal, and yes this hobby sometimes stretches our budget (how could something be worth $250??), but all I'm saying is if a seller knows he/she has a good headphone in good condition, he/she is going to want it to fetch a good price. A deep discount is kinda like a favor, and nobody here can get an idea of why they would basically be losing money to help you buy headphones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by martin vegas View Post

600ohm impedance means that the headphone amp will power headphones up to 600ohm...
Ehhhhh... That's what the marketing is trying to indicate, but it's actually not a good indicator. It's like trying to find out how fast a car is when the only data you have is how far they drove.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Napalmhardcore View Post

You often hear of people who say things like "I thought my old (insert product here) was good until I tried this. I could never go back to it now that I've experienced (insert new product here)".
The % something changes might be small, but the listener might VALUE that change a lot. I'm not saying anything, I'm just saying output impedance shouldn't be your main reason for getting an amp (if that's all, just get a FiiO E5)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Napalmhardcore View Post

Itchy, must scratch itch! lol

I get the impression that head-fi is a gathering place for itchy people.

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