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Mad Lust Envy's Headphone Gaming Guide: (3/18/2016: MrSpeakers Ether C 1.1 Added) - Page 115

post #1711 of 37441
Thread Starter 
I praise them, and will keep praising them. I won't belittle them because I found something better. You're quick to dismiss a headphone as soon as you find something you like better. The D7000 and HE4 are my fave headphones. Period. They have their strengths and their weaknesses. But I wouldn't directly compare them to one another, because they have a very different sound from one another, so I couldn't say one if better than the other, because that comparison is unfair and ridiculous. If I wear the D7000 the whole day and put on the HE4, the He4 will sound way too treble heavy, and lacking in body. However if I wear the He4 all day and switch to the D7000, the D7000 will sound velied, muddy, and boomy as hell. Hence why comparing such contrasts wouldn't be fair to either headphone.

Likewise, comparing a bass heavy can to a midcentric can to me is just unfair. It's null and void. You can choose what kind of frequency curve you like, but it doesn't make the other curves inferior. Just DIFFERENT. Something you don't point out.

For immersion, the D7000 will win out in many instances over any neutral can I've ever heard. Likewise, when I'm playing competitively, a neutral can will always be favored over bass heavy cans. That's why I think two headphones of two different sound sigs are ideal. People can also just choose one very well balanced can that does everything well, but won't beat the best in the 'emphasized' headphones.

So for example for gaming:

Immersion: D7000, DT990
Competitive: AD700, K701, HD598
Balanced: DT880 (rear cue issues aside, slight mid recession), HE4 (slight mid recession), PC360

If this were for music purposes, I wouldn't for example pit the D7000 vs K701. There's just no way to compare them because they're too different. Only your own specific taste could say which you'd prefer. no way to say one is clearly better than the other.
Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 6/23/11 at 10:06pm
post #1712 of 37441


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

I praise them, and will keep praising them. I won't belittle them because I found something better. You're quick to dismiss a headphone as soon as you find something you like better. The D7000 and HE4 are my fave headphones. Period. They have their strengths and their weaknesses. But I wouldn't directly compare them to one another, because they have a very different sound from one another, so I couldn't say one if better than the other, because that comparison is unfair and ridiculous. If I wear the D7000 the whole day and put on the HE4, the He4 will sound way too treble heavy, and lacking in body. However if I wear the He4 all day and switch to the D7000, the D7000 will sound velied, muddy, and boomy as hell. Hence why comparing such contrasts wouldn't be fair to either headphone.

Likewise, comparing a bass heavy can to a midcentric can to me is just unfair. It's null and void. You can choose what kind of frequency curve you like, but it doesn't make the other curves inferior. Just DIFFERENT. Something you don't point out.


I don't belittle them, I just see the flaws I had never known about before. This is of course attributed to experiencing lots of high end cans. It just irks me when they're praised out the ass for things they're not even doing right. It's not like I'm going "Lol DT990, mids suck go get a LCD2". What I AM saying is that they have obvious flaws that for some reason people take to be so good for gaming. Why? When the DT990 was my favorite can, beating out my only other high-end experience he D7000, I still realized what was wrong with it in games. 

 

As for comparing completely different cans, I realized weeks ago I won't be able to keep one can. There's one I can say I confidently prefer to every other can I have had, but when I hear a certain two or three others, I am reminded what they do so well that the first doesn't. I know what you mean, believe me. I'm not trying to compare the DT990 to a midcentric can. The DT990 does things no midcentric can will ever do. However, what the DT990 does for games is nowhere near as positive as some make it out to be IMO. If it were, it's not like I wouldn't have kept it. 

 

 

post #1713 of 37441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

So for example for gaming:

Immersion: D7000, DT990
Competitive: AD700, K701, HD598
Balanced: DT880 (rear cue issues aside, slight mid recession), HE4 (slight mid recession), PC360

If this were for music purposes, I wouldn't for example pit the D7000 vs K701. There's just no way to compare them because they're too different. Only your own specific taste could say which you'd prefer. no way to say one is clearly better than the other.


I take a completely different approach to music, if you haven't noticed.I have never said the K701 is bad for music, for instance, even though I personally would never EVER keep it. For some styles of music I don't often listen to, the K701 can be one of the greatest things ever for quite a few people. 

 

As for SP gaming, I've been a gamer since I was 3. There is no genre I do not play on a regular basis. I bounce from Lost Odyssey to Black Ops to NBA Street to Ratchet & Clank to Devil May Cry to Silent Hill to... you get the idea. As such, I know what I'm talking about when it comes to games. And what purpose for gaming sound in SP serve? Immersion. Big bass and recessed mids (where the real important stuff happens) can be pleasing to the inexperienced (I don't mean that in an insulting way at all) but in the end a balanced or near balanced presentation is just so much more immersive and emotional while being as satisfying, but not artificially so. 

 

Competitve, no use getting into that, we all know what's best already. Soundstage, positioning, low bass, etc. 

post #1714 of 37441
Thread Starter 
Yeah, YOUR opinion. You do realize that when people want bass for extra IMMERSION, subtle details won't be the most important thing, right? That means that yeah mids (where most subtle details are), won't be as clear. This is why they don't make the BEST at detail whoring. But for non-hardcore-eqsue gaming, there's nothing wrong with bass emphasis. These kind of U shaped headphones are called FUN for a reason.

If you wanna join a flagship cult, go to another forum where they spend thousands of dollars for gaming cans. However, we here are a little more realistic. For the price and immersion they add, the DT990 is a solid choice, IMHO. You don't need to spend $900+ to gain lots of immersion. Is it too flawed for you? Then enjoy your flagships. sadly, lots of us here aren't as fortunate as you. And what it does for games is add fun, soundstage, and some impressive room filling bass. Never said otherwise. Pick out a headphone in their price range that are open, comfy, immersive, and with that kind of well textured emphasized bass. I haven't heard the FA-011, but they seem to be the only other can that can do it in the price range. PLEASE correct me, and let me know what miracle can you've found that does what the DT990 does but better, since you clearly have the money to TRY THEM ALL and have the flagship experience.

I've been gaming since the Atari days, and have owned practically every system since. I'm quite a closet gamer geek. So yeah, I think I know what I'm talking about. C WHUT I DID THAR?
Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 6/23/11 at 10:28pm
post #1715 of 37441


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

Yeah, YOUR opinion. You do realize that when people want bass for extra IMMERSION, subtle details won't be the most important thing, right? That means that yeah mids (where most subtle details are), won't be as clear. This is why they don't make the BEST at detail whoring. But for non-hardcore-eqsue gaming, there's nothing wrong with bass emphasis. These kind of U shaped headphones are called FUN for a reason.

If you wanna join a flagship cult, go to another forum where they spend thousands of dollars for gaming cans. However, we here are a little more realistic. For the price and immersion they add, the DT990 is a solid choice, IMHO. You don't need to spend $900+ to gain lots of immersion. Is it too flawed for you? Then enjoy your flagships. sadly, lots of us here aren't as fortunate as you. And what it does for games is add fun, soundstage, and some impressive room filling bass. never said otherwise. Pick out a headphone in their price range that are open, comfy, immersive, and with that kind of well textured emphasized bass. i haven't heard the FA-011, but they seem to be the only other can that can do it in the price range. PLEASE correct me, and let me know what miracle can you've found that does what the DT990 does but better, since you clearly have the money to TRY THEM ALL and have the flagship experience.

I've been gaming since the Atari days. So yeah, I think I know what I'm talking about. C WHUT I DID THAR?

Subtle details? Dialogue???
 

And I love how people continue to assume balanced can't be fun. 

 

I haven't even been comparing to anything over the DT990's price in the last few posts. There are better single and multiplayer cans at and below the price. Don't try to pin me on comparing it to flagships, I'm not.  

 

Yes they do what you said. I have no problem with that. What I do have a problem with is all the people who think they are better than everything else just because of the bass, as if that's all that matters in games. It irks me in the way Beats and Skullcandies do. 

 

As for flagships that do what the DT990 does but better: Oh come on already. The only flagship I've heard that does artificially emphasized bass, sparkly highs, and recessed mids is the D7000. It's no coincidence you love it and I used to. Everything else is completely different, nobody at that price is looking for the kind of experience in the top tier level. You can get plenty satisfying but not overemphasized bass there too with the HE500, HE-6, T1, ED8, LCD2 etc. Remember, you asked. 

 

That's cool. What I'm hinting at is, unlike the "hardcore gamers" who got their start with the current gen and COD, I have experience. Interpret that as you will. 


Edited by Alghazanth - 6/23/11 at 10:32pm
post #1716 of 37441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

OMGZ TEH MIDZ R RECISED


Pure win.

 

Now if we could only get people to understand that "balance" is the root word of "balanced".  For one thing to go up, something else has to go down.

 

Dan-Newlin-Scales-of-Justice.gif

 

Making the bass, mids, and treble all louder and more prominent at the same time is called "turning up the volume".  Pity almost no one seems to understand it...

post #1717 of 37441
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alghazanth View Post

You can get plenty satisfying but not overemphasized bass there too with the HE500, HE-6, T1, ED8, LCD2 etc.>

Yes, because we all have the same tastes and think something like the HE-6 (known not to have that deep a bass impact) would compete with the D7000's movie theater sound. rolleyes.gif

Again, null and void. They don't have anywhere near the same sound signature, open vs closed, completely doing what I said was stupid to begin with: Comparing two headphones with wildly different sound signatures.

What's wrong with a flagship that has a fun sound signature? Is there some unwritten word somewhere that states all flagships must have a similar sound curve? If so, I missed it. I didn't know you had trade secrets.
post #1718 of 37441


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by Alghazanth View Post

You can get plenty satisfying but not overemphasized bass there too with the HE500, HE-6, T1, ED8, LCD2 etc.>



Yes, because we all have the same tastes and think something like the HE-6 (known not to have that deep a bass impact) would compete with the D7000's movie theater sound. rolleyes.gif

Again, null and void. They don't have anywhere near the same sound signature, open vs closed, completely doing what I said was stupid to begin with: Comparing two headphones with wildly different sound signatures.

What's wrong with a flagship that has a fun sound signature? Is there some unwritten word somewhere that states all flagships must have a similar sound curve? If so, I missed it. I didn't know you had trade secrets.


I said plenty satisfying and not overemphasized bass. The HE-6, LCD2, HE500, T1, ED8, LCD2 etc have plenty satisfying but not overemphasized bass. The D7000 and DT990 have satisfying and overemphasized bass. Get it now?

 

Again, you assume the other flagships are not fun because they don't have insane bass. How much experience do you have with them? The HE500 is more fun than the D7000 ever was and is only slightly above bass neutral. ED8 does what the D7000 does but much better.The LCD2 has amazing bass, perhaps even more quantity than the D7000 and certainly far better quality, except it isn't overblown and messy. 

 

Stop thinking the only kind of "fun" can= artificial bass, sparkly highs. 

 


Edited by Alghazanth - 6/23/11 at 11:00pm
post #1719 of 37441
Thread Starter 
You seem to forget that we all have particular preferences. Even in the same price tiers, I've always preferred bass emphasis and sparkly highs, over more balanced headphones. Hell, when I paired up my D7000 to the Lyr, I didn't like it as much because the bass became better controlled, and the treble wasn't as sparkly. It was a minor but noticeable difference, that I didn't like.

Stop assuming that because you now preferred a better balanced headphone that we all will. I've ahad a few balanced headphones and have always preffered bass and sparkly highs... every single time.

I don't NEED to experience flagships, because guess what? For the most part, a lot of us wouldn't EVER spend that kind of money,. let alone for GAMING purposes. I'm surprised you haven't bought the Beyer Gaming HEADZONE yet, since you seem to want the VERY BEST in gaming.

With the strict understanding that some of us live down on Earth, we have to deal with certain non-exorbitant price ranges. Again, please tell me which headphones can provide the kind of immersion the DT990 does at or lower their price range.

You're beginning to sound like some audio snob that thinks that because you've heard the some of best, you know what everyone should like. I've made it clear what strengths and weaknesses the headphones I've tested have, and it's up to the people who read to follow or disregard my advice based off their own preferences.

Go cram flagships down other people's throats. Perhaps the High-end forum. We're dealing with people with some strict budgets 99% of the time, which is why I didn't even wanna bring up the D7000 and even HE4 into this thread.

Since you're so enlightened now, perhaps you shouldn't even be using Dolby Headphone. It's artificial and adds a fake sense of space. rolleyes.gif
Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 6/23/11 at 11:54pm
post #1720 of 37441


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

You seem to forget that we all have particular preferences. Even in the same price tiers, I've always preferred bass emphasis and sparkly highs, over more balanced headphones. Hell, when I paired up my D7000 to the Lyr, I didn't like it as much because the bass became better controlled, and the treble wasn't as sparkly. It was a minor but noticeable difference, that I didn't like.

Stop assuming that because you now preferred a better balanced headphone that we all will. I've ahad a few balanced headphones and have always preffered bass and sparkly highs... every single time.

I don't NEED to experience flagships, because guess what? For the most part, a lot of us wouldn't EVER spend that kind of money,. let alone for GAMING purposes. I'm surprised you haven't bought the Beyer Gaming HEADZONE yet, since you seem to want the VERY BEST in gaming.

With the strict understanding that some of us live down on Earth, we have to deal with certain non-exorbitant price ranges. Again, please tell me which headphones can provide the kind of immersion the DT990 does at or lower their price range.

You're beginning to sound like some audio snob that thinks that because you've heard the some of best, you know what everyone should like. I've made it clear what strengths and weaknesses the headphones I've tested have, and it's up to the people who read to follow or disregard my advice based off their own preferences.

Go cram flagships down other people's throats. Perhaps the High-end forum. We're dealing with people with some strict budgets 99% of the time, which is why I didn't even wanna bring up the D7000 and even HE4 into this thread.

Since you're so enlightened now, perhaps you shouldn't even be using Dolby Headphone. It's artificial and adds a fake sense of space. rolleyes.gif


Are you freaking serious?! I hadn't even said anything about flagships compared to the DT990 UNTIL YOU ASKED. I told you that there are better options for both SP and MP at the same or lower price, and I told you why. You're butthurt as all hell and I'm done with you. 

post #1721 of 37441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alghazanth View Post


Are you freaking serious?! I hadn't even said anything about flagships compared to the DT990 UNTIL YOU ASKED. I told you that there are better options for both SP and MP at the same or lower price, and I told you why. You're butthurt as all hell and I'm done with you. 



So, care to tell everyone what better options for SP and MP are those that cost the same or less than the DT990?

post #1722 of 37441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric_C View Post




And who recommended you the HDJ-2000 for gaming?

 


A friend of mine.

 

post #1723 of 37441

Well now I feel like a homewrecker.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewMACAdress View Post

To the man who is going through the same thing everyone else here has gone through (Grayle)

HAHA,HAHA,HAHAH, OW This hurts 

HAHA,HAHA,HAHAH,



Damn you, good sir. Damn you to heeeeell.



Quote:
Originally Posted by MohawkUS View Post

See if you can find the Xonar Essence for $150 and put that extra $50 into your headphones and you can get the PRO2900. I just got off fallout NV and I had to pick my jaw up off the floor. The game is filled with ambient sounds that I'd been missing out on. I was just wandering about simply amazed at how great it sounded..... and then a car exploded. The bass just about knocked me out of my seat. The amazing thing about the PRO900/2900s are that they have amazing bass, but it stays out of the way of the other frequencies. Its the best of both worlds for immersion and positional audio.

 

 I don't know about the AD2000, but I found the AD900 terrible for electronic music and not so good for metal. It fared well in rock. For the best gaming performance you really need an open can. Angled or displaced drivers are also a huge plus(Ultrasones/ Sennheiser 5xx series). 

 

From my brief time trying the Senn 598 I can tell you it had a massive, airy soundstage and it fared well with electronica. It was too laid back for metal.


Hmm, I'm pretty much destined to use Amazon.com because I live in Europe, and the Ultrasone PRO2900 costs $550. So a tad more than $350+$50.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Alghazanth View Post

 

DT990- I would not get this gaming or music because of the recessed midrange, but obviously people here don't care because of the bass. If bass is extremely important to you, this would be the ideal mix of it + soundstage, but if you're like me and have graduated from the "MUST HAVE GOBS OF BASS" mentality, you'd do better elsewhere. And for music only, the treble is indeed piercing. 

 

D2000- They're great for gaming, but I stopped using them as soon as I heard the AD700. Soundstage is just too important for ALL gaming to use 99% of closed cans.

 

HD598- It has bass, but not much. Somewhere in between bass neutral and bass anemic.

 

AD2000- No idea, ask Raptor.

 

K701- Yes that's all true. 

 

You could buy yourself an STX, or just use an astro mixamp and save some $. 

 


Isn't the Astro Mixamp Dolby Headphone function pretty standard though? And also crappy? And man, that doesn't help at all. You're telling me they're all terrible. =p

 

I should probably just buy a pair of DT990s and call it a day. I'm not a basshead though, I don't think. Whatever bass my current Razer Barracuda turdphones have is plenty. And... I really don't know if that''s a lot or not. My speakers are the age-old Creative I-Trigue 3600s and the bass on the volume knob amp thing is set to 4 (out of ten) and that's pretty much perfect for music and such. So, a touch above bass neutral? And "piercing" is a word I really, really hate. I don't want anything to pierce anything here.

 

Christ, I wish I could just go to a music store and test some of these headphones. That'd solve this whole mess relatively quickly. But apparently Belgium has decided to give music the finger because I can't find a single freaking store which a. sells decent headphones and b. lets you listen to any of them before buying.

 

So let me rephrase: what's the best balanced headphone, leaning slightly towards bass, with great soundstage/directionality and comfort (I'll be wearing these suckers for hours)? Which I think is basically a toned down DT990? A bit less bass, no piercing anything. I think that'd work well with just about anything, right?

 

Or you can continue the little flamewar, with a bit of luck it'll turn me off this headphone madness altogether. My wallet would be eternally grateful. ^^

post #1724 of 37441

I just had to say that i have experienced these major U shaped headphones and while i guess they are considered "fun," i think that maybe to a child or narrow minded people they would be ideal.  Bass that is bloomy and uncontrolled just gets old (maybe it's because i'm not a child anymore and my body can't put up to the abuse).Usually these headphones can mock having a soundstage but really it's just the bass recessed a little because of how bloomy it is and allows the headphone to have a squeezed in soundstage  and  peope make take as being a good soundstage but really it's not that great because you end up trying to much with out realizing it to get that seperation.  A good sound stage comes natural and is way more important than bass and by saying that i mean that it is more important when people are learning about headphones.  Yes some people may like more bass in their headphones but until they hear other headphones that recessed bass and a good natural soundstage then they will miss out on something that really is important.  

  Another point  i would like to point out is that yes, everyone prefers different sounds or hears different blahblahblah.  We've all heard this and understand it. Headphones plain and simply go further in depth than just lows, mids and highs or soundstage and imaging.  It's combinations of all of them.  

You can have controlled bass that never extends past the mids but is still it's own sound(completely impossible without a good soundstage (generally open cans) 

  Has anyone ever heard the expression "don't out think your common sense"  I think that a lot of people do this when talking about headphones.  I have come to find that people find little nit picks about the sound of their headphones and that's fine but their are somethings that should just be apparent right off the bat.  I always burn my headphones in and then listen to see if it' bloomy bass.  If it is then i just don't want it but i can still make a few other observations to determine if it is a good sounding headphone.  Does the sound come natural and are their layers audible behind that bloomy bass.  If yes then that's a plus.  Obviously is their a lot of distortion,  what is the sound signature( like can it reproduce voices naturally or are they sparkly from a titanium driver or dull and weak from a cheap paper diaphram.) Is their good instrument seperation at high tempo's. 

And the most important thing EVER is to make sure you eat your wheaties in the morning and to not shake it more than three times cause it's considered playing with yourself

 

post #1725 of 37441

BTW i was just rambling and i wanted to note that while No headphone can do one thing good without messing up another, their are cans that can do an excellent job with the most important things and then leave the nitpicking to personal preference.  Yes some people will buy a headphone and want all this bass but you have to be nieve to think that everyone stay on that path once they hear a decent headphone. What i am saying to maybe try and suggest a headphone that people can learn a lot about other than obvious sparkly highs because they're listening to a Titanium diaphramed driver.  

 

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Head-Fi.org › Forums › Misc.-Category Forums › Video Games Discussion › Mad Lust Envy's Headphone Gaming Guide: (3/18/2016: MrSpeakers Ether C 1.1 Added)