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Mad Lust Envy's Headphone Gaming Guide: (3/18/2016: MrSpeakers Ether C 1.1 Added) - Page 671

post #10051 of 37324
Thread Starter 
Well, if you have a PS3, it has an option called Bitstream Mix which converts DTS to Dolby Digital which the Mixamp converts to Dolby Headphone. Only works on movie discs.

This is mentioned on the first post...
post #10052 of 37324
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

Well, if you have a PS3, it has an option called Bitstream Mix which converts DTS to Dolby Digital which the Mixamp converts to Dolby Headphone. Only works on movie discs.
This is mentioned on the first post...

 

Nope. I have a CECHA-01. I don't think it's capable of bitstreaming.

post #10053 of 37324
Thread Starter 
It has an optical out. Of course it's capable of bitstreaming. It's the only way to get surround sound to older receivers. I had that old model too.

Just got to video settings (assuming you're on the latest update). The Bitstream Mix option should be there.
Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 12/24/12 at 10:26pm
post #10054 of 37324
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

It has an optical out. Of course it's capable of bitstreaming. It's the only way to get surround sound to older receivers. I had that old model too.
Just got to video settings (assuming you're on the latest update). The Bitstream Mix option should be there.

 

So, anything with optical bitstreams? That's not really important right now though. So, what is the significance to this bitstreaming then? It just sends 1's and 0's (the raw data) to the receiving device, yeah? What's this for? I thought those video settings were just for movies, not games, but technically, every PS3 game is a BD, so, I guess it applies to those as well. That's more news to me! Man, I'm loving you right now! lol.

post #10055 of 37324
Thread Starter 
Bitstream, from my understanding takes less bandwith than PCM, and is the only way to carry so many audio channels at once. That is why you can't get Dolby True HD or DTS-HD through optical cables.

And yes, the video settings are JUST for videos, not games, so you CAN'T take a DTS enabled game and convert it to Dolby Digital for Dolby Headphone processing.

You're sort of making my head hurt, lol. Read the first post!
Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 12/24/12 at 10:38pm
post #10056 of 37324
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post
My bad, what I mean is that in order to have the correct Dolby Headphone processing, it must take in a Dolby Digital signal. Dolby Signal is compressed. You can feed it a lossless Dolby True HD signal, and it will just find the embedded Dolby Digital signal and convert that.
As for other signals, it basically just turns them into 2 channel PCM and adds the processing, which is basically useless and detrimental to sound quality without any benefits other than smoothening treble and expanding soundstage at the expense of having extra reverb.
It won't even take a DTS signal at all. Those devices that do, convert DTS to DD first, which then gets turned into DH.
Unless the new DH converts lossless directly to DH (which I highly doubt), the only way to get lossless converted to virtual surround is other emulations like Harmin Headphone, Silent Cinema, etc, and those are different from DH. They too many not even use lossless audio, and instead do like DH and convert it/find the compressed embedding to convert.
Just a theory. Not sure how those other processors do their magic.

 

I don't think Dolby Headphone is dependent on the Dolby Digital/AC-3 codec specifically, as that would be far too limiting, but that it just needs a 5.1 or 7.1 source of any kind to work, be it Dolby Digital, DTS, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-Master Audio, LPCM, analog, or even a properly decoded Dolby Pro Logic II signal. The source signal gets decoded into its component channels first, then the DH processing is applied.

 

It just so happens that most 5.1 sources are encoded in Dolby Digital to begin with, especially console games on the original Xbox and beyond, likely because of a Dolby Digital Live-esque tech being included by default. (Now if they'd just mix them straight into HRTF, like a binaural mix...)

 

If you use DH via a PC sound card or an A/V receiver with HDMI, like those older Harmon Kardon models, you would most likely get virtual 7.1, not just virtual 5.1, using the same basic HRTF mixing methods.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoAmusing777 View Post

Nope. I have a CECHA-01. I don't think it's capable of bitstreaming.

 

The fat PS3s can't bitstream Dolby TrueHD or DTS-Master Audio over HDMI, but they're perfectly capable of bitstreaming Dolby Digital and DTS over S/PDIF. (Probably HDMI too, but it's not strictly necessary because HDMI has the bandwidth for 7.1 LPCM, which is already superior in quality due to being lossless.) Otherwise, it would be in the same precarious position the Wii U is regarding effectively getting discrete surround sound signals (not matrixed ones like Dolby Pro Logic II) out of the console and into a headphone surround processor.

 

I'd still rather have the near-complete PS2 compatibility of the CECHA over the HDMI bitstreaming of the slim PS3s. Too many PS2 exclusives I missed out on last time, and I don't even have any A/V receivers with HDMI inputs, let alone loudspeakers to connect to them that would make the higher-end formats audibly superior.

post #10057 of 37324
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

Bitstream, from my understanding takes less bandwith than PCM, and is the only way to carry so many audio channels at once. That is why you can't get Dolby True HD or DTS-HD through optical cables.
And yes, the video settings are JUST for videos, not games, so you CAN'T take a DTS enabled game and convert it to Dolby Digital for Dolby Headphone processing.
You're sort of making my head hurt, lol. Read the first post!

 

Right. Boooooooo. Then it is of no importance then. I did read the first post! Lol. I guess I should have specified this was for gaming only. Idc about videos, lol. So, back to what I asked then. For gaming, what is the significance of having anything other than mixamp for DH then? It obviously doesn't matter what the source is, since it just takes the DD signal itself. Original question >>> (So, the only way it won't downconvert it to 2channel PCM first, is if its Dolby True HD? Huh, wow, so the SU-DH1 takes in DTS, converts it to DD, then DH is applied.)

post #10058 of 37324
Quote:
Originally Posted by NamelessPFG View Post

 

I don't think Dolby Headphone is dependent on the Dolby Digital/AC-3 codec specifically, as that would be far too limiting, but that it just needs a 5.1 or 7.1 source of any kind to work, be it Dolby Digital, DTS, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-Master Audio, LPCM, analog, or even a properly decoded Dolby Pro Logic II signal. The source signal gets decoded into its component channels first, then the DH processing is applied.

 

It just so happens that most 5.1 sources are encoded in Dolby Digital to begin with, especially console games on the original Xbox and beyond, likely because of a Dolby Digital Live-esque tech being included by default. (Now if they'd just mix them straight into HRTF, like a binaural mix...)

 

If you use DH via a PC sound card or an A/V receiver with HDMI, like those older Harmon Kardon models, you would most likely get virtual 7.1, not just virtual 5.1, using the same basic HRTF mixing methods.

 

 

The fat PS3s can't bitstream Dolby TrueHD or DTS-Master Audio over HDMI, but they're perfectly capable of bitstreaming Dolby Digital and DTS over S/PDIF. (Probably HDMI too, but it's not strictly necessary because HDMI has the bandwidth for 7.1 LPCM, which is already superior in quality due to being lossless.) Otherwise, it would be in the same precarious position the Wii U is regarding effectively getting discrete surround sound signals (not matrixed ones like Dolby Pro Logic II) out of the console and into a headphone surround processor.

 

I'd still rather have the near-complete PS2 compatibility of the CECHA over the HDMI bitstreaming of the slim PS3s. Too many PS2 exclusives I missed out on last time, and I don't even have any A/V receivers with HDMI inputs, let alone loudspeakers to connect to them that would make the higher-end formats audibly superior.

 

So, were back to square one! Then the source sound does matter!

 

Right.

 

Not only that, but I would get PCM DH.

 

Yeah, capable of bitstreaming for videos only apparently. Right right.

 

Me too! Near complete? Isn't it 100%? Both you and I own the Hardware 60gb version, yeah? Not the partially software, partially hardware based one.

post #10059 of 37324
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post



Got the Yuin G1A! They're quite the sexy looking pair of clip ons.

Upon first listen using the Modi/Magni stack, they're incredibly well balanced with a smooth presentation. Not even one song in, and I already know these are keepers. I was afraid they'd be bass light, but they have a nice, balanced amount of bass. So happy with them. $150 and they definitely sound like better balanced, and more refined KSC35s. Maybe not a $100 improvement, but they are definitely worth it to me.

 

Cool. 

 

They sound nice.  I wish they were more like $80 though.  Is there any info about a warranty?  I would feel bad buying something so fragile without a warranty.  A lifetime warranty would be even better.  ksc75smile.gif

 

If they really make the KSC 35/75 obsolete, I may have to get some eventually.  I use the clip-ons enough that I owe it to myself to look into higher end ones.

post #10060 of 37324
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoAmusing777 View Post

 

So, anything with optical bitstreams? That's not really important right now though. So, what is the significance to this bitstreaming then? It just sends 1's and 0's (the raw data) to the receiving device, yeah? What's this for? I thought those video settings were just for movies, not games, but technically, every PS3 game is a BD, so, I guess it applies to those as well. That's more news to me! Man, I'm loving you right now! lol.

Not every optical connection will bitstream, unless it has something at the end of the S/PDIF (optical & coaxial) connection that can uncompress the bitstream in to individual PCM audio signals.

Otherwise all you can send down S/PDIF (optical & coaxial) is 2-channnel PCM.

post #10061 of 37324
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicolom View Post

Cool. 

They sound nice.  I wish they were more like $80 though.  Is there any info about a warranty?  I would feel bad buying something so fragile without a warranty.  A lifetime warranty would be even better.  ksc75smile.gif

If they really make the KSC 35/75 obsolete, I may have to get some eventually.  I use the clip-ons enough that I owe it to myself to look into higher end ones.

I don't see anything warranty-wise on the package, and Head-Direct has a 30-day refund...

I too agree. I think with the build and sound, it should be more like $80 for sure.


It's improvement over the KSC75/35, but not sure it's worthwhile to be honest. They are all stellar to me, and I'd feel better spending the $45 on the KSC35 than $150 on the G1A.

I think you'd like them though, for sure.

Just... that price hurts. Being a KSC owner like me, you may be let down as to how improved it is.

I need more time with them though. I do have them and I'm sure I'll keep them, but not completely sold yet. The 35s are so good too... I do NOT think the Yuin G1A makes the Koss clip ons obsolete. It's more refined, but pretty damn hard to drive in comparison, and will want amping at all times. If you're moving about a lot with your clip-ons, the Yuins are not ideal unless you always have a portable amp with you.
Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 12/25/12 at 12:18am
post #10062 of 37324
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoAmusing777 View Post

Me too! Near complete? Isn't it 100%? Both you and I own the Hardware 60gb version, yeah? Not the partially software, partially hardware based one.

 

The CECHA models have the COK-001 motherboard with what amounts to a whole PS2 on it (EE, GS and RAM), so it's almost full compatibility.

 

I say "almost" because due to the PS3's lack of PS1/PS2 controller ports (and FireWire/IEEE 1394), that inherently rules out certain games that may depend on such peripherals. Most of those are light gun games, but with those, the bigger issue is how the light guns themselves are built with direct-view CRTs and raw, unprocessed analog video signals in mind.

 

Fortunately, USB peripherals are still supported; I can use my Hori Flightstick 2 without problems in Ace Combat 5, and I wouldn't be surprised if I could also use things like the Logitech Driving Force (Pro) or the EyeToy.

post #10063 of 37324
Quote:
Originally Posted by NamelessPFG View Post

 

The CECHA models have the COK-001 motherboard with what amounts to a whole PS2 on it (EE, GS and RAM), so it's almost full compatibility.

 

I say "almost" because due to the PS3's lack of PS1/PS2 controller ports (and FireWire/IEEE 1394), that inherently rules out certain games that may depend on such peripherals. Most of those are light gun games, but with those, the bigger issue is how the light guns themselves are built with direct-view CRTs and raw, unprocessed analog video signals in mind.

 

Fortunately, USB peripherals are still supported; I can use my Hori Flightstick 2 without problems in Ace Combat 5, and I wouldn't be surprised if I could also use things like the Logitech Driving Force (Pro) or the EyeToy.

 

You're so technical! lol.

post #10064 of 37324
Thread Starter 
I love that about him. I learn a lot just reading his post. I'm not a technical person, so having someone like Nameless around is a blessing.

Chico, I do NOT think the Yuin G1A makes the Koss clip ons obsolete. It's more refined, but pretty damn hard to drive in comparison, and will want amping at all times. If you're moving about a lot with your clip-ons, the Yuins are not ideal unless you always have a portable amp with you.
post #10065 of 37324
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

I love that about him. I learn a lot just reading his post. I'm not a technical person, so having someone like Nameless around is a blessing.
Chico, I do NOT think the Yuin G1A makes the Koss clip ons obsolete. It's more refined, but pretty damn hard to drive in comparison, and will want amping at all times. If you're moving about a lot with your clip-ons, the Yuins are not ideal unless you always have a portable amp with you.

 

Same. Did you see what I posted earlier? So, indeed, it's PCM to DH, not PCM to DD to DH.

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