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Shure SRH 940 impression and support thread - Page 69

post #1021 of 3844
Again, the bass of the 940 may extend down deep, however it has light impact. I also have the HD800 and any reviewer that suggests the HD800 doesn't need amping deserves the grains of salt it should be read with.

I like the 940 and they do improve when modded. They are worth the money and sound better than most closed cans at it's price level. They do not, however, in my opinion, compete with $1000 headphones. Why should they? Who asked them to? Does Shure claim they do? No, they don't.
post #1022 of 3844

Disregarding coloration, impact, extension, and what not, the question lies whether it can play bass to the note. It seems that headphones that are lighter in bass without any extra bloom do this MUCH better. The LCD-2 had trouble with some recordings... Best I've heard from a headphone is the HD800. But initially it wasn't, until I heard it through a proper system. Source has almost as much to do with this than a headphone, if not more in certain cases. 

 

The problem with all of the Ultrasone's I've tried is not only that there is too much of the bass, but that it's highly monotonic, even the ED8, when comparing to the HD800, K701 or my K272. Bass response is truly fast only when it does this specific feat right. 

 

Also, already one has stated that the SRH940 bests the ED8 in every area and I have every reason to believe him, given how mediocre the ED8 was. 

post #1023 of 3844

** removed because I  found a  better solution, and no one care anyway **


Edited by extrabigmehdi - 8/22/11 at 11:10am
post #1024 of 3844
Quote:
Originally Posted by electropop View Post

Disregarding coloration, impact, extension, and what not, the question lies whether it can play bass to the note. It seems that headphones that are lighter in bass without any extra bloom do this MUCH better. The LCD-2 had trouble with some recordings... Best I've heard from a headphone is the HD800. But initially it wasn't, until I heard it through a proper system. Source has almost as much to do with this than a headphone, if not more in certain cases. 

 

The problem with all of the Ultrasone's I've tried is not only that there is too much of the bass, but that it's highly monotonic, even the ED8, when comparing to the HD800, K701 or my K272. Bass response is truly fast only when it does this specific feat right. 

 

Also, already one has stated that the SRH940 bests the ED8 in every area and I have every reason to believe him, given how mediocre the ED8 was. 


Not sure if you've actually heard the LCD-2s, but they hit the "notes" as you put it better than any headphone I've heard by a good margin. Please show me any bloom that the LCD-2s have? Can't measure the bloom...can't hear the bloom...likely because there is none. If you're hearing bloom, then its simply because the recording called out for it. If you wish to colour this to your liking, then that's fine, but that's not what was on the recording. But both the FR graphs and 50Hz square wave response show that these are the most linear headphones with regards to bass and that the drivers....well....hit the note.

 

The Ed.8s are not what I consider bass monsters like the Denon headphones with regards to subwoofer like impact, but as I stated they do have deep, visceral and detailed bass.

 

But if your standards are the K701s and SRH940s, I guess we're on opposite ends of the spectrum with regards to what sounds natural and real.

 


Edited by MacedonianHero - 8/21/11 at 4:21pm
post #1025 of 3844
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post




Not sure if you've actually heard the LCD-2s, but they hit the "notes" as you put it better than any headphone I've heard by a good margin. Please show me any bloom that the LCD-2s have? Can't measure the bloom...can't hear the bloom...likely because there is none. If you're hearing bloom, then its simply because the recording called out for it. If you wish to colour this to your liking, then that's fine, but that's not what was on the recording. But both the FR graphs and 50Hz square wave response show that these are the most linear headphones with regards to bass and that the drivers....well....hit the note.

 

The Ed.8s are not what I consider bass monsters like the Denon headphones with regards to subwoofer like impact, but as I stated they do have deep, visceral and detailed bass.

 

But if your standards are the K701s and SRH940s, I guess we're on opposite ends of the spectrum with regards to what sounds natural and real.

 



I totally agree with Peter. The LCD2 (I only have heard the v1) has the best bass response I've heard in any headphone. It extends at least as low as the HD800 and, to me, has zero bloom. I am hardly a basshead and actually really like the bass on the HD800.
The LCD2 is something special when it comes to bass. Of the issues I had with the LCD2r1, bass was not one of them. From what I've read and have been told the LCD2r2 has dealt with most of them.

The stock 940's bass is closer in line with the AKG K70x. Look at the charts. They match what I hear. It's bass shy. Can the 940 be made to have more impact? Yes. But out of the box they're bass shy to me. The 840, on the other hand, has bass that is a bit bloomy to me. If the 940 charted it's bass along the line of the HD800 I think it would be spot on. YMMV
post #1026 of 3844
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post




Not sure if you've actually heard the LCD-2s, but they hit the "notes" as you put it better than any headphone I've heard by a good margin. Please show me any bloom that the LCD-2s have? Can't measure the bloom...can't hear the bloom...likely because there is none. If you're hearing bloom, then its simply because the recording called out for it. If you wish to colour this to your liking, then that's fine, but that's not what was on the recording. But both the FR graphs and 50Hz square wave response show that these are the most linear headphones with regards to bass and that the drivers....well....hit the note.

 

The Ed.8s are not what I consider bass monsters like the Denon headphones with regards to subwoofer like impact, but as I stated they do have deep, visceral and detailed bass.

 

But if your standards are the K701s and SRH940s, I guess we're on opposite ends of the spectrum with regards to what sounds natural and real.

 


I think electropop is confusing sub-bass with bloom...

 

post #1027 of 3844
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post

 

Please show me any bloom that the LCD-2s have? Can't measure the bloom...can't hear the bloom...likely because there is none. If you're hearing bloom, then its simply because the recording called out for it.

 


Quote:

Originally Posted by baka1969 View Post

has zero bloom.


Quote:

Originally Posted by wind016 View Post

I think electropop is confusing sub-bass with bloom...

 



You guys make me want to listen to Blue Oyster Cult and plant flowers.

 

post #1028 of 3844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beagle View Post




Quote:


Quote:



You guys make me want to listen to Blue Oyster Cult and plant flowers.

 


Now you made me want to buy another CD. lol
post #1029 of 3844

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beagle View Post

You guys make me want to listen to Blue Oyster Cult and plant flowers.


... and read James Joyce?

 


Edited by priest - 8/21/11 at 10:39pm
post #1030 of 3844
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post




Not sure if you've actually heard the LCD-2s, but they hit the "notes" as you put it better than any headphone I've heard by a good margin. Please show me any bloom that the LCD-2s have? Can't measure the bloom...can't hear the bloom...likely because there is none. If you're hearing bloom, then its simply because the recording called out for it. If you wish to colour this to your liking, then that's fine, but that's not what was on the recording. But both the FR graphs and 50Hz square wave response show that these are the most linear headphones with regards to bass and that the drivers....well....hit the note.

 

The Ed.8s are not what I consider bass monsters like the Denon headphones with regards to subwoofer like impact, but as I stated they do have deep, visceral and detailed bass.

 

But if your standards are the K701s and SRH940s, I guess we're on opposite ends of the spectrum with regards to what sounds natural and real.

 


I owned the LCD-2 for two weeks. Think I was in the second or third batch... I never did try them out of a system that was supposedly ideal for them. The bass wasn't the worst. It's definitely linear on paper. High notes are a completely different story. Wood winds and brass playing the very highest notes and their harmonics: had to pinch quite hard to hear anything... The HD800 did this much better (out of that one system) and I made a conclusion that they have much more potential than the LCD-2, in both bass and high note department. It was much more relaxing to listen to as well. In comparison, the LCD-2 tended to sound monotonic. For a musician, with whom I made these observations agreed that the HD800 were much more clear if he were to tab notes, for instance. 

I have to add though, that for the two or three weeks when I had the LCD-2, I noticed that they were very picky with regards to the amplifier. Tried different tubes, solid states, visited different shops: ended up sounding the best out of an iPod. Out of a Naim headphone amp, the K701 even bested it. It brought absolutely nothing to the table, instead of some monotonic low-bass rumble, no other headphone which I've heard, can reproduce. But that might've been the setup as well... Don't get me wrong, I probably could have lived happily with them if not for direct comparisons. I thought I heard everything, but I didn't :)

 

On paper though, the LCD-2 seemed to show some very low frequency ringing, if I remember correctly. Even if it's inaudible, might it have some kind of an effect on the higher bass-frequencies? I understand most of the basic graphs, but am no expert. Sorry for derailing.

 

On topic though, I have not acquired an SRH940 yet. They are not my reference and I have not formed a real conclusion yet. I like how people say they don't have any "visceral bass". One fine head-fi poster noted that headphones indeed are not able to reproduce natural reproduction anyway (at least when it comes to a physical feeling), so why not concentrate on what we're able hear from the music. "Bass-light" cans just tend to make every note audible to their pitch, much easier than a bass-monster, from my experience. 

 

Correction! I reread my post and did not mean to say the LCD-2's have bloom exactly, it was just "monotonic" in comparison. Still better than many other headphones, especially Ultrasones.


Edited by electropop - 8/22/11 at 12:35am
post #1031 of 3844
Quote:
Originally Posted by wind016 View Post




I think electropop is confusing sub-bass with bloom...

 



I don't think so. I agree that I had to get used to the presentation, which at first was, shall we say, bass-heavy for me. But that's not a problem as long as a note hits it pitch and is distinguishable from another, which with LCD-2, they always weren't. Simple as that. The HD800 is a MUCH more holistic listening experience, were it the bass or especially the high notes one is "tabbing". Nothing wrong with the LCD-2's midrange though, I quite enjoyed it. Higher end extension was the biggest deal-breaker for me... I remember listening to Miles Davis' Sketches of Spain and it just didn't do it any justice :(

post #1032 of 3844
Quote:
Originally Posted by electropop View Post




I owned the LCD-2 for two weeks. Think I was in the second or third batch... I never did try them out of a system that was supposedly ideal for them. The bass wasn't the worst. It's definitely linear on paper. High notes are a completely different story. Wood winds and brass playing the very highest notes and their harmonics: had to pinch quite hard to hear anything... The HD800 did this much better (out of that one system) and I made a conclusion that they have much more potential than the LCD-2, in both bass and high note department. It was much more relaxing to listen to as well. In comparison, the LCD-2 tended to sound monotonic. For a musician, with whom I made these observations agreed that the HD800 were much more clear if he were to tab notes, for instance. 

I have to add though, that for the two or three weeks when I had the LCD-2, I noticed that they were very picky with regards to the amplifier. Tried different tubes, solid states, visited different shops: ended up sounding the best out of an iPod. Out of a Naim headphone amp, the K701 even bested it. It brought absolutely nothing to the table, instead of some monotonic low-bass rumble, no other headphone which I've heard, can reproduce. But that might've been the setup as well... Don't get me wrong, I probably could have lived happily with them if not for direct comparisons. I thought I heard everything, but I didn't :)

 

On paper though, the LCD-2 seemed to show some very low frequency ringing, if I remember correctly. Even if it's inaudible, might it have some kind of an effect on the higher bass-frequencies? I understand most of the basic graphs, but am no expert. Sorry for derailing.

 

On topic though, I have not acquired an SRH940 yet. They are not my reference and I have not formed a real conclusion yet. I like how people say they don't have any "visceral bass". One fine head-fi poster noted that headphones indeed are not able to reproduce natural reproduction anyway (at least when it comes to a physical feeling), so why not concentrate on what we're able hear from the music. "Bass-light" cans just tend to make every note audible to their pitch, much easier than a bass-monster, from my experience. 

 

Correction! I reread my post and did not mean to say the LCD-2's have bloom exactly, it was just "monotonic" in comparison. Still better than many other headphones, especially Ultrasones.


Just a few observations....bass lite does NOT equal more bass definition and bright (or more treble) does not equal more detail.

 

And with a total flat FR response, how is that monotonic? It reproduces bass down to 10Hz in a linear fashion. Again, if we focus more on the square wave responses:

 

LCD-2:

http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=3&graphID[]=3211
 

 

SRH-940:

http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=3&graphID[]=3101

 

So the LCD-2 can clearly reproduce the input square wave at 50Hz while the SRH-940 struggles....If these square wave responses were reproduced at frequencies from 20Hz to 800Hz...the LCD-2 would come out on top every time....far from "monotonic" bass. As well, I am unaware of any other headphone that can do this as well as the LCD-2s. You can personally listen to how well each bass note sounds with a standard frequency sweep...every note is bang on with the LCD-2s.

 

As I mentioned, the SRH940s are great buys for around $200, but I still had to struggle to hear the bass on all the recordings I listened to (and was very familiar with), and I found the treble a bit too much for me. But again, if you're in the "SRH940, ER-4P/S, and K701 sound the most natural to me camp", then we will have to simply agree to disagree.


Edited by MacedonianHero - 8/22/11 at 7:47am
post #1033 of 3844
Quote:
Originally Posted by electropop View Post





I don't think so. I agree that I had to get used to the presentation, which at first was, shall we say, bass-heavy for me. But that's not a problem as long as a note hits it pitch and is distinguishable from another, which with LCD-2, they always weren't. Simple as that. The HD800 is a MUCH more holistic listening experience, were it the bass or especially the high notes one is "tabbing". Nothing wrong with the LCD-2's midrange though, I quite enjoyed it. Higher end extension was the biggest deal-breaker for me... I remember listening to Miles Davis' Sketches of Spain and it just didn't do it any justice :(



I've been a trumpet player for over 32 years and know the sound of the instrument quite well....and the LCD-2s reproduce the trumpet as well/better than any other headphones I've owned. I particularly liked how when Miles uses the straight mute, I didn't have to cringe with the higher notes like I normally do with my other headphones. Funny, in real life, I don't have to cringe either. wink.gif

 

The treble extension goes up to 20kHz, no detail is missing, just that it is pushed back further to account for the headphone drivers close proximity to your ears. I suggest maybe you give the Rev. 2s a try.

post #1034 of 3844
Quote:
Originally Posted by electropop View Post

Disregarding coloration, impact, extension, and what not, the question lies whether it can play bass to the note. It seems that headphones that are lighter in bass without any extra bloom do this MUCH better. The LCD-2 had trouble with some recordings... Best I've heard from a headphone is the HD800. But initially it wasn't, until I heard it through a proper system. Source has almost as much to do with this than a headphone, if not more in certain cases. 

 

The problem with all of the Ultrasone's I've tried is not only that there is too much of the bass, but that it's highly monotonic, even the ED8, when comparing to the HD800, K701 or my K272. Bass response is truly fast only when it does this specific feat right. 

 

Also, already one has stated that the SRH940 bests the ED8 in every area and I have every reason to believe him, given how mediocre the ED8 was. 


Sounds to me like you just like a basslight coloration.  Nothing wrong with that.  If a headphone has less lower bass, it will sound more "tuneful" because you are hearing more of the upper bass or even midrange/upper midrange of the bassy instrument and those frequencies have more of what you perceive as detail.  If you took the same headphone and EQ'd the bass lower, the bassy instruments would sound more "tuneful" or have more of a "note" as you're calling it.  But that doesn't mean it's actually faster or more accurate in any way.  It's not a coincidence that all the headphones you say have fast bass response are also basslight headphones, or at least on the basslight side of the spectrum.  The HD800 also does have fast response though of course.  But so does the LCD-2, the difference being that the LCD-2 has more quantity in general and more lower bass, which contains the least amount of "detail".   IME

post #1035 of 3844

OK, I'll interrupt your discussion for a while and ask a small question. ;-)

I have Shure SRH440. People often use them with SRH840 pads for better comfort. The question is: Would it work with SRH940 pads as well? If I'm not mistaken, SRH940 have velour pads and I've never heard a headphone with ones. Would there be any sound changes? Like worse isolation, less bass or anything? Anyone tried that?

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