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is the ipod classic the ipod of audiophiles? - Page 8

post #106 of 186

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZarakiSan View Post

It's not something that's theoretical here - I have had multiple hard disk players throw a lot of noise on the headphone output whenever the hard drive did any seeking. It's hard for the battery to cope with those short, high-power drains or so I reckon. While it's also possible the sound if being sent to my earphones by pure vibration, I highly doubt it - it sounds too direct and directly audible to me. It doesn't seem to apply to most other parts inside DAPs, I believe. Or maybe, it's exactly as you say and all those things add noise to the headphone output!
 

If you have really sensitive IEMs and a hard-disk based player, take a good listen for yourself. It shouldn't be hard to hear at all.

 

Edit: The screen being on is something you can control (it isn't audiophile with the screen on, imo), you can change the parameters yourself to get proper sound. The hard disk is hard to impossible to control.

 

In all my years using it, the only time I can hear my iPod's hard drive is either when it's within a foot or two of my ears in a quiet setting, or directly next to my ear; in both cases, that's without wearing any IEMs. I've never heard anything while actually listening to music. Maybe you have golden ears or just bad luck with hard drives, but all I can say is that my experiences have never showed this to be a problem.

 

Ultimately, my thoughts are as cooperpwc mentioned: I would think the power requirements of a hard drive, screen, etc., would be taken into consideration during the design of a player so as to prevent any such issues as these. Especially for some of these major companies with years and years of design and technical know-how under their belts, it would seem a major oversight to me to do otherwise.

post #107 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by estreeter View Post

My two cents worth:

 

- in any hobby, there are 'nth degree' perfectionists. If your cable has .00009% oxygen, they will want to better that, regardless of cost

 

- the same people who buy more expensive USB cables will be the same people who insist on SSD over hard drives - its an nth degree thing.

 

- no argument will sway them from what they hear through their kit - no DBT, no measurements - and you can bet that they have acute hearing, regardless of age. If there is hiss anywhere in the chain, you'll hear all about it.


Hah, absolutely true. What matters most of all is the pair of headphones you own - for total sound, it's the most important factor (at least in my opinion), and all the rest is subtle compared to those. Your source is usually alright (especially for mobile use, although with custom IEMs, a lot of environments become close to absolutely silent), and any of the really good brands have been making properly great sounding devices for the last while.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Train View Post

 

In all my years using it, the only time I can hear my iPod's hard drive is either when it's within a foot or two of my ears in a quiet setting, or directly next to my ear; in both cases, that's without wearing any IEMs. I've never heard anything while actually listening to music. Maybe you have golden ears or just bad luck with hard drives, but all I can say is that my experiences have never showed this to be a problem.

 

Ultimately, my thoughts are as cooperpwc mentioned: I would think the power requirements of a hard drive, screen, etc., would be taken into consideration during the design of a player so as to prevent any such issues as these. Especially for some of these major companies with years and years of design and technical know-how under their belts, it would seem a major oversight to me to do otherwise.


I'm really surprised to hear a lot of people have never had this issue - with five hard drive players once in my possession (H120, iPod 5.5g 80GB, Archos Gmini 500, Zune 80, Archos 605 Wifi) and at least four of them showing this problem (I can't recall if the H120 had it), it's perhaps unluckiness indeed, but that would be a ton of bad luck. I assure you, my ears need a lot more training yet, btw.

 

I guess I would conclude that the hard drive based design makes it likely, at least. Obviously, a player with a massive battery and well-sorted power distribution would be able to get around the problem. I am afraid, however, that us audiophiles (to whatever extent we are) are not the intended market for most of these devices, and such issues aren't noticed by the general population.

 

Also, I'm really surprised the S:flo 2 has issues with hiss whenever the screen is on. Considering so many makes get that right, why does a player designed for audiophiles start hissing like that?

post #108 of 186

I've listened (briefly) to a couple people's various iPod Classic models and have never encountered any problems with hard drive noise. Other than the iPod Video, I have not heard any of the other players you mentioned. Unless it were extremely subtle, I'd think there'd be more mention or documentation of a problem like that if it was common to all hard drive based players.

 

The S:Flo2 hiss, IIRC, may just be some noisy screen circuitry and only occurs when the display is on. I think it was discussed throughout the impressions thread.


Edited by Train - 1/12/11 at 11:48pm
post #109 of 186

If you want a good laugh, check out What Hi-Fi's site or magazine and read their cable reviews, especially the HDMI ones. 

 

http://www.whathifi.com/Reviews/Accessories-Reviews/HDMI-and-video-cables-Reviews/ 

 

Mind you, this is a bunch of 'experts' who consistently rave about the Sennheiser CX-300 and give it 5 stars, so what do you expect.

 

Anyway, on the subject of iPod Classics, another reason I'll not get another one is cos I had two of them corrupt on me within the space of 6 months, to the extent that I had to send them off for replacements. Bollocks to that.

 

Having said all that though, I did once put a Classic through a complete washing machine cycle when I forgot it was in my jeans pocket.  Took three days for it to start working again but it finally resurrected itself perfectly.

 

So there you go, maybe these things really are truly special - Apple iJesus, anyone?

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundmangt4 View Post

I recently bought my newest generation (8th?) iPod classic, and was very disappointed that the only way to get a solid state drive was to buy the Touch, which had smaller capacity and twice the price tag, and as I ONLY use it as a music player it'd extra functions were a waste. However, I had only wanted the solid state drive as I have had 2 old hard drives fail in iPods, and that really annoys me, and I had not thought about the extra noise that it may or may not make. TBH, the environment that I listen to my iPod in is such that I can guarantee I could not hear the minute difference anyway.

I think there is a line to be drawn with potential improvements with portable audio, unless you listen in quiet rooms without walking around etc etc, as the background noise from occlusion effect or general noise is too great to hear these tiny differences. Just my opinion anyway.

On hifi set ups, lots of serious hi-end kit have displays that turn off to help with noise floor etc, but again I have never gone that far. 

 

However, the funniest and most absurd thing I heard recently is a guy who commented in a FiiO E7 thread (and apologies if he/she is reading this) that when using the E7 as a DAC he had changed the USB cable to an expensive type with gold connectors and it improved the sound 10%. Made me laugh so hard. The fact that it is a digital transmission and it will either get there or not means the cable quality if absolutely irrelevant. Please also bear in mind that I work for a company called Midas (www.midasconsoles.com) who make high quality mixing consoles, and developed Supermac and Hypermac AES50 protocols, which can transmit up to 384 channels of 96Khz 24 bit audio simultaniously down a CAT5 cable up to 100 meters with only 6 micro-seconds of latency per network hop, and the quality or speed is not affected by using high quality or cheap CAT5, as long as the termination is good.

The fact that he/she was convinced it sounded better with the expensive USB cable is proof really that the mind is a powerful thing, and we hear things we want to hear at times. I'm not saying some things can make a minute difference - like good cabling, but only in the analogue world really. Too often are the ill-informed prayed upon for sales, like with HDMI cables. For example, if you've bought a HD TV recently, then the chances are you have had a sales guy tell you to buy a good (and suitably expensive) HDMI cable. Complete profiteering IMO.

 

Anyway, I strayed from the path again, but my point and opinion is that some tiny things can not be appreciated or heard in some environments, and sometimes we chase perfection for perfection's sake, without actually needing what we already have.

post #110 of 186

Back to the original question, yes it is absolutely my choice as a mobile device, imod 80gb, = 10,000 tunes (lossles) banded with a small quality amp, the sound through Denon AH 5000 is sublime for room to room portability or sat in a quiet pub, and on the move , ie travelling, played through triple pro 10s.

You can replace the hard drive and the battery, this will not effect the imod so longevity is not an issue.

Hi-Fiman is the best of the rest but only marginally so, but limited in all other aspects.

Its all about opinions,but I will say this, my home set-up is much superior when listening through the speakers,however only marginally so when the Denons are plugged into the amp.  

post #111 of 186

I know for myself it will become my choice once again with the addition of the newly announced Pure 1-20 dock. Getting a digital stream out for about $100 is HUGE.......... ;-)

 

edit: Just want to add that this is really not a portable solution but I know a lot of us use our portable setups as our work/desktop setup.


Edited by jamess71 - 1/13/11 at 7:08am
post #112 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by b0wl1ng View Post

Back to the original question, yes it is absolutely my choice as a mobile device, imod 80gb, = 10,000 tunes (lossles) banded with a small quality amp, the sound through Denon AH 5000 is sublime for room to room portability or sat in a quiet pub, and on the move , ie travelling, played through triple pro 10s.

You can replace the hard drive and the battery, this will not effect the imod so longevity is not an issue.

Hi-Fiman is the best of the rest but only marginally so, but limited in all other aspects.

Its all about opinions,but I will say this, my home set-up is much superior when listening through the speakers,however only marginally so when the Denons are plugged into the amp.  



You have an almost identical set up to me except mine is the standard classic and amp stepdance, both headphones make this combination sublime to these old ears!

post #113 of 186

open question: when we're talking iPod + LOD to an amp, doesn't that negate the differences between e.g. 5th gen vs. 6th gen (since the LOD bypasses the iPod's internal amp)?

 

i'm really just trying to justify keeping my 80gb 6th Gen iPod classic, any insight on LODs in this respect would be appreciated normal_smile%20.gif

post #114 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by rataplan View Post

open question: when we're talking iPod + LOD to an amp, doesn't that negate the differences between e.g. 5th gen vs. 6th gen (since the LOD bypasses the iPod's internal amp)?

 

i'm really just trying to justify keeping my 80gb 6th Gen iPod classic, any insight on LODs in this respect would be appreciated normal_smile%20.gif



It bypasses the amp, not the DAC. But the differences between the 5th and 6th will be negligible anyway, even with both with optimal sound equipment.

post #115 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by macrocheesium View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by rataplan View Post

open question: when we're talking iPod + LOD to an amp, doesn't that negate the differences between e.g. 5th gen vs. 6th gen (since the LOD bypasses the iPod's internal amp)?

 

i'm really just trying to justify keeping my 80gb 6th Gen iPod classic, any insight on LODs in this respect would be appreciated normal_smile%20.gif



It bypasses the amp, not the DAC. But the differences between the 5th and 6th will be negligible anyway, even with both with optimal sound equipment.


FYI here is an article that provides a different view. This generated quite a bit of discussion at the time of the release of the 6G. The 7G is meant to be better though.

 

The 5 and 5.5G were the "iPod Videos" using a Wolfson DAC. The 6G was the first of the Classics using the an integrated Cirrus Logic DAC/amp chip. Comparing the 5.5G and the 7G (I never heard the 6G), The sound is different. The Wolfson is warmer IMHO. Detail is good but improves with an iMod/DIYmod modification. The 7G resolves detail extremely well but sounds a bit thinner to my ears. I personally prefer the 5.5G, especially modded.

post #116 of 186

But is the difference that noticeable? I mean, are these tiny differences that you have to A/B to find, or something that will smack you in the face as soon as you turn it on?

post #117 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by cooperpwc View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by macrocheesium View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by rataplan View Post

open question: when we're talking iPod + LOD to an amp, doesn't that negate the differences between e.g. 5th gen vs. 6th gen (since the LOD bypasses the iPod's internal amp)?

 

i'm really just trying to justify keeping my 80gb 6th Gen iPod classic, any insight on LODs in this respect would be appreciated normal_smile%20.gif



It bypasses the amp, not the DAC. But the differences between the 5th and 6th will be negligible anyway, even with both with optimal sound equipment.


FYI here is an article that provides a different view. This generated quite a bit of discussion at the time of the release of the 6G. The 7G is meant to be better though.

 

The 5 and 5.5G were the "iPod Videos" using a Wolfson DAC. The 6G was the first of the Classics using the an integrated Cirrus Logic DAC/amp chip. Comparing the 5.5G and the 7G (I never heard the 6G), The sound is different. The Wolfson is warmer IMHO. Detail is good but improves with an iMod/DIYmod modification. The 7G resolves detail extremely well but sounds a bit thinner to my ears. I personally prefer the 5.5G, especially modded.


thanks for the info! now i'm torn between the storage space vs. sound quality, might look into getting a used 5G at 60gb, or do think an external DAC would be a better investment (while maintaining storage space mind you)? also, if i get DAC why then isn't the signal going into it analog already since the iPod has its own DAC? one question leads to another i guess, but thanks for all the info provided thus far!

post #118 of 186

^There's no way to bypass the iPod's DAC, sadly. VERY few players can do this.

post #119 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by macrocheesium View Post

^There's no way to bypass the iPod's DAC, sadly. VERY few players can do this.



so this means there's no point in getting an external DAC if you plan to use it with an iPod?

post #120 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by rataplan View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by macrocheesium View Post

^There's no way to bypass the iPod's DAC, sadly. VERY few players can do this.



so this means there's no point in getting an external DAC if you plan to use it with an iPod?



Exactly, you can't use it with an iPod.

 

EDIT:: This is wrong, sorry. Read on to the next page.

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