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HD650 - Did I make a mistake? :( - Page 3  

post #31 of 62

no single headphone will please everybody, but dismissing them based off of how they sound from an onboard soundcard is a premature decision. no one is suggesting a 1000 dollar amp. i have seen plenty of budget suggestions for the OP posted here in this thread. if you're not a believer in amplification then that is your loss.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarkang View Post


Yes, my child. 

If you need me to carry your ass on the beach, I can do that.

 

If OP's solution is a $1000 amp, then that's fine.

I said come and see me if that doesn't work out.

I admit, I could have said it a little less troll-y.

 

Seriously, though. 

Can you deny the large number of unhappy Senn buyers posting threads? 

It's not an amp problem for most of them. 

 


 
post #32 of 62


Audio-GD NFB12, Sparrow and FiiO E7+E9 are sub $300 recommendations that WILL improve the OP's chain by not only giving him an adequate amp for the HD650 but also a very good DAC. You are fanatical about your quest to "educate" the masses and blindly miss the that fact there may be people here (me included) who do actually AGREE with you that spending the big bucks is ludicrous. The gear mentioned here however, represent a stark improvement to merely running an HD650 from a soundcard or crappy little portable amp.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarkang View Post


Yes, my child. 

If you need me to carry your ass on the beach, I can do that.

 

If OP's solution is a $1000 amp, then that's fine.

I said come and see me if that doesn't work out.

I admit, I could have said it a little less troll-y.

 

Seriously, though. 

Can you deny the large number of unhappy Senn buyers posting threads? 

It's not an amp problem for most of them. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by olor1n View Post


It was only a matter of time. Forget anything anyone may ever say to you based on their own experience. We're all clearly deluded. The messiah is here to show us the way.


 

Edited by olor1n - 1/4/11 at 8:52pm
post #33 of 62

Don't worry about this. 

It's theoretically possible of course, but ASUS is a major player. 

Windows 7 just came out.  You'll be fine.

The worst thing that would happen would be to use Win 7 drivers under Win 8.

ASUS wouldn't render all their legacy gear obsolete. 

Disastrous for business.

 

For the other reasons listed though, an external AMP/DAC is nice to have.

Again though, if your music listening is primarily at home through a single computer,

I see little need to worry. 

 

Having said that, I like the idea of not being tied to one physical system;

that's why I have the ASUS Xonar U1, an external AMP/DAC via USB. 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elanzer View Post

With something like a soundcard, you are also at the mercy of driver quality and availability - what if you upgrade to Windows 8 in future and no Xonar drivers are released for it?

post #34 of 62


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katun View Post

OP, to tell you the truth, I think you were just expecting too much. Like I was. I thought these hundred dollar headphones would be absolutely unbelievable, but quite frankly, they are actually believable. They aren't everything people expect them to be. They still play the same old music you are used to listening to, just in a more refined way. People make it seem like it's night in day difference, but it really never has been...

 

Even with everyone who says "they really open up when you use an amp", I take that with little value. Well, at least with my MKIII tube amp. Do they sound better? Yes, but not by THAT much. Once again, you are still hearing the same old music, just a bit better. No headphone is going to transform your hearing for the better, and no headphone will make a bad song sound good. If you like the music, you like it with whatever headphone you listen to. But it's always nice to hear it with a touch more clarity, dynamics, and resolution. A touch more...

Well shoot I was sure amazed by them coming from my HD 485's, still am. Amping makes a huge difference, they sound like mid-fi headphones without an amp and the soundstage is almost non-existant. . .
 

post #35 of 62
Thread Starter 

I don't want to make so big of a jump as a beginner, so things like Lisa 3 or the $1500 Headroom is out of my option for now. From most of the replies in here, I'm assuming that the Sparrow and  Schiit Asgard are among the best DAC/Amp combo for starters with budget range from $150-300?

post #36 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Satellite_6 View Post


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katun View Post

OP, to tell you the truth, I think you were just expecting too much. Like I was. I thought these hundred dollar headphones would be absolutely unbelievable, but quite frankly, they are actually believable. They aren't everything people expect them to be. They still play the same old music you are used to listening to, just in a more refined way. People make it seem like it's night in day difference, but it really never has been...

 

Even with everyone who says "they really open up when you use an amp", I take that with little value. Well, at least with my MKIII tube amp. Do they sound better? Yes, but not by THAT much. Once again, you are still hearing the same old music, just a bit better. No headphone is going to transform your hearing for the better, and no headphone will make a bad song sound good. If you like the music, you like it with whatever headphone you listen to. But it's always nice to hear it with a touch more clarity, dynamics, and resolution. A touch more...

Well shoot I was sure amazed by them coming from my HD 485's, still am. Amping makes a huge difference, they sound like mid-fi headphones without an amp and the soundstage is almost non-existant. . .
 


Liar!

post #37 of 62

Why spend $300 when the job can be had for $100?

Plus OP already has a good ASUS card, AMP included.

No add'l money required.

 

I have a less powerful ASUS XONAR and it had no problems with the DT-990 (250 ohm).

The HD-650 will be equal or less than the Beyer in difficulty.

OP has more power than I do.

He'll be fine. 
 

The ASUS that OP bought is neither a normal soundcard, nor a a crappy little portable amp.

 

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by olor1n View Post


Audio-GD NFB12, Sparrow and FiiO E7+E9 are sub $300 recommendations that WILL improve the OP's chain by not only giving him an adequate amp for the HD650 but also a very good DAC. You are fanatical about your quest to "educate" the masses and blindly miss the that fact there may be people here (me included) who do actually AGREE with you that spending the big bucks is ludicrous. The gear mentioned here however, represent a stark improvement to merely running an HD650 from a soundcard or crappy little portable amp.

 

post #38 of 62

there is nothing wrong with making a huge jump, as long as you have the funds of course. i went from using a $30 pair of Koss UR40, or $50 Brainwavz M2 IEM's out of a smartphone, to using the HD650 out of a HeadRoom Desktop Amp/DAC from a laptop. the difference was huge and i'm still amazed.

 

there are plenty of budget (sub $300) amp/dac's out there that have been said to pair well with the HD650.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhiQuanTu View Post

I don't want to make so big of a jump as a beginner, so things like Lisa 3 or the $1500 Headroom is out of my option for now. From most of the replies in here, I'm assuming that the Sparrow and  Schiit Asgard are among the best DAC/Amp combo for starters with budget range from $150-300?

post #39 of 62

^

^

Yet it's cheap, so it can't be as good as a 1000$ piece of gear, despite every objective means of determining audio quality claiming just that.

post #40 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elanzer View Post

I have a Xonar DX and I've never found any use at all for the virtual surround stuff in the driver, the quality improvement of using the Sparrow as a DAC is much preferred.

 

The STX is fairly weak for it's $200 price - the Sparrow (and FUN, NFB-12) has over twice the amping power, and one of the most important things of all - the fact that it's not inside your computer (one of the most electronic noisy places, especially if near a graphics card..) and instead is in an isolated, shielded unit.

 

With something like a soundcard, you are also at the mercy of driver quality and availability - what if you upgrade to Windows 8 in future and no Xonar drivers are released for it? It basically becomes useless. USB connection to a DAC doesn't require drivers and Coax/TOSLink can be run from your motherboard's onboard digital outputs, in which your onboard has no factor in the processing of sound and just delivers it.



 



Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarkang View Post

Don't worry about this. 

It's theoretically possible of course, but ASUS is a major player. 

Windows 7 just came out.  You'll be fine.

The worst thing that would happen would be to use Win 7 drivers under Win 8.

ASUS wouldn't render all their legacy gear obsolete. 

Disastrous for business.

 

For the other reasons listed though, an external AMP/DAC is nice to have.

Again though, if your music listening is primarily at home through a single computer,

I see little need to worry. 

 

Having said that, I like the idea of not being tied to one physical system;

that's why I have the ASUS Xonar U1, an external AMP/DAC via USB. 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elanzer View Post

With something like a soundcard, you are also at the mercy of driver quality and availability - what if you upgrade to Windows 8 in future and no Xonar drivers are released for it?



 



Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarkang View Post

Why spend $300 when the job can be had for $100?

Plus OP already has a good ASUS card, AMP included.

No add'l money required.

 

I have a less powerful ASUS XONAR and it had no problems with the DT-990 (250 ohm).

The HD-650 will be equal or less than the Beyer in difficulty.

OP has more power than I do.

He'll be fine. 
 

The ASUS that OP bought is neither a normal soundcard, nor a a crappy little portable amp.

 

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by olor1n View Post


Audio-GD NFB12, Sparrow and FiiO E7+E9 are sub $300 recommendations that WILL improve the OP's chain by not only giving him an adequate amp for the HD650 but also a very good DAC. You are fanatical about your quest to "educate" the masses and blindly miss the that fact there may be people here (me included) who do actually AGREE with you that spending the big bucks is ludicrous. The gear mentioned here however, represent a stark improvement to merely running an HD650 from a soundcard or crappy little portable amp.

 


Do you have the memory of a goldfish? The OP also asked about running the HD650 out of just the E7. I've owned the E7 and have the HD650. As I've stated to you several times in other threads, sure you may get "adequate" volume but the SQ compared to a desktop amp (in my case the FUN) is clearly compromised. Of course, you'll probably rattle on about A/B blind tests and conveniently ignore the fact that these differences aren't subtle enough to justify such tests.

post #41 of 62

Now that it's no longer the darling flagship of the Sennheiser empire, the HD650 easily gets pelted with rocks, sometimes by folks who preferred the presentation of the HD600 and sometimes by know-nothing parrots who are simply repeating what they've read elsewhere.  I'm a Grado guy, but my experience with the HD650 was tremendous.  This is a serious headphone with stellar comfort, workmanship and dedication to sound.  It's a bit darker than the HD600, leading to legitimate differences over whether it should have been the "successor" to the 600, but that's a family feud, not an expose.  Grado had the same in-fighting over the GS1000 as the "successor" to the RS1.  In both cases, the company simply solved the problem by creating a new top dog that blew all parties away - though at a significant premium.

 

That said, you can't diss the 650 as anemic if you don't have an amp capable of powering it up.  Neither the 600 nor the 650 are efficient headphones, which is a criticism one can make of the big Grados as well as the HD800.  The attempt to get maximum space and venting resonance means you have a driver hanging in the wind.  Sennheiser's particular approach to the open-can design, with a driver suspended over an open frame, enclosed only by a transparent grill and some padding, needs plenty of power to control and maximum those drivers as they vibrate their way to bass - without the magnification effect of using a wooden air chamber or an enclosed design.  There are more efficient, easier-to-drive, ways to get plenty of bass, but you won't have the same sense of space or resonance minimization.  The idea of getting all or most of your bass directly off the driver is a gutsy one.  It only works if those drivers are fully powered.  There are easier ways to design a headphone but there's a price for everything.

post #42 of 62

I never noticed that the OP actually bought the STX, I thought he was looking into buying it.

 

Anyways, his decision might already be made, unless he wants to return the STX.

post #43 of 62

I know someone who enjoys the hd650 a lot out of the $129 uDac 2.  So that is an inexpensive option for a computer based system.

post #44 of 62
Thread Starter 


I don't want to have the same experience that I had with RC Helicopter hobby. I started out with a $80 honeybee, which didn't help me at all as a beginner....then I got mad and went for a $2000 kit and bought a second one not too long after that. LOL. But year....I know there's a lot of ways to improve the sound quality an HD650 can throw out. But may be I'll go with an OK DAC/AMP/SC now, save up and skip the mid-level, and finally upgrade to a decent DAC & Amp. :)


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonb View Post

there is nothing wrong with making a huge jump, as long as you have the funds of course. i went from using a $30 pair of Koss UR40, or $50 Brainwavz M2 IEM's out of a smartphone, to using the HD650 out of a HeadRoom Desktop Amp/DAC from a laptop. the difference was huge and i'm still amazed.

 

there are plenty of budget (sub $300) amp/dac's out there that have been said to pair well with the HD650.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhiQuanTu View Post

I don't want to make so big of a jump as a beginner, so things like Lisa 3 or the $1500 Headroom is out of my option for now. From most of the replies in here, I'm assuming that the Sparrow and  Schiit Asgard are among the best DAC/Amp combo for starters with budget range from $150-300?


 
post #45 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarkang View Post


Yes, my child. 

If you need me to carry your ass on the beach, I can do that.

 

If OP's solution is a $1000 amp, then that's fine.

I said come and see me if that doesn't work out.

I admit, I could have said it a little less troll-y.

 

Seriously, though. 

Can you deny the large number of unhappy Senn buyers posting threads? 

It's not an amp problem for most of them. 

  



 I suggest the number of unhappy Senn buyers posting threads (not that I've noticed an inordinate number) is due to two things which are yet one thing:

 

1. Most (read all) young listeners today listen to beat based, bass emphasised music.

 

2. Few people today know what accurate sound is (it requires attendance at live acoustic concerts), and still fewer people really want accurate sound if it sounds less exciting on their chosen (beat based, bass emphasised) genres.

 

I've become more and more convinced over the years that high-end Senns (before the HD800, at least) were designed for naturalness--that is, to replicate the sound of accoustic ensemble music heard in free air from a reasonable distance. And this is not the sound most young newbies are looking for or expect. They read how supercalifragilisticexpialidocious the 650 is and imagine that means their thrash metal CDs are going to sound even more cranium exploding than ever---and that isn't what the 650 is all about. An amp won't fix it. A better source won't fix it. Getting to understand what live acoustic music sounds like might, but they probably don't want that. In short, there's a very good reason why Grado are doing well and why Beyer and AT and Denon balance their phones the way they do when it has nothing to do with live music. They clearly know something Sennheiser didn't until they brought out the HD800 (and now the 558 and 598).   

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