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New listening impressions of Stax C32 prototype and Shipping SR-009 - Page 25

post #361 of 1512
Quote:
Originally Posted by svyr View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwkarth View Post

I never mentioned anything about bias.  Someone else brought that up.  All I said was that the spec looked like the potential dynamic range was limited.  FWIW, increasing the bias is analogous to  making the magnet stronger on an electromagnetic driver.

mmm, I remember seeing the comment about the allegedly limited dynamic range. Didn't quite get where he thought that up from. thanks for the analogy. Not quite sure how useful it is since the diaphragm is the moving not stationary bit, but ok.

Higher bias could potentially affect the speed of the driver and the sensitivity, but maximum output is limited by the weakest link in the chain... sensitivity, given a limited power input or power handling, clearance for diaphragmatic excursion. suspension tension of the diaphragm, area of the diaphragm, etc.
 

 

post #362 of 1512
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwkarth View Post



Higher bias could potentially affect the speed of the driver and the sensitivity, but maximum output is limited by the weakest link in the chain... sensitivity, given a limited power input or power handling, clearance for diaphragmatic excursion. suspension tension of the diaphragm, area of the diaphragm, etc.
 

 

 

Unless you're referring to something completely different --

Is 118dB not enough, which is the rated max on the SR-009?  The HD800 can go to 126dB if I'm not mistaken (based on the math) but would you ever listen that loud?  And how many recordings really take advantage of that kind of dynamic range?  Most people at the very max would listen at 105dB for short periods; even at 110dB you're still covered.

 


Edited by IPodPJ - 3/20/11 at 2:24am
post #363 of 1512

 

 

Quote:
Sound levels above 85dB SPL are considered harmful, those above the pain threshold of 120 dB SPL are unsafe, and those above 150dB SPL cause physical damage to the human body.  To avoid hearing damage, safety organizations recommend exposure to no more than 85–90dB SPL for 8h a day, 100dB SPL for 2h a day, or 110dB SPL for 30min a day.

 

Wish it could reach the pain threshold.  I don't want it anymore. rolleyes.gif

post #364 of 1512
I was always wondering, WRT DR - wouldn't it be safer to get closed headphones with good isolation, instead and listen quieter (with a lower ambient and total noise floor) instead of looking for open HP with higher quoted SPL (?), which seems a bit absurd.
Plus quoted sensitivity isn't exactly DR anyway...I thought lower sensitivity HP need more power to sound louder than higher sensitivity ones. (db/mw respectively?)
Edited by svyr - 3/20/11 at 3:42am
post #365 of 1512
Thread Starter 

We should not confuse instantaneous and continuous levels. If you're listening to music with large dynamic range (classical, think Prokofiev, Malher for example), you could very well listen to 100+dB levels at some instants but more like 65-70dB continuous.

 

Having said that, threshold of pain is 120dB instantaneous I believe (?), and I don't think I listen loud enough to reach such demanding peak level. Noise exposure is not only related to loudness but also duration of exposure (reminds me of some topic in the news, uhh....)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by n3rdling View Post

 

 

 

Wish it could reach the pain threshold.  I don't want it anymore. rolleyes.gif



 

post #366 of 1512

The cable entry is the same as is used on the SR-007 Mk2 but with a spacer to make up for the thicker enclosure.  This is standard operating practice for Stax since it cuts down on the parts they have to stockpile. 

post #367 of 1512
Quote:
Originally Posted by spritzer View Post

The cable entry is the same as is used on the SR-007 Mk2 but with a spacer to make up for the thicker enclosure.  This is standard operating practice for Stax since it cuts down on the parts they have to stockpile. 



That's what I thought from just looking. I don't really think that's acceptable for a flagship personally.

 

If they're charging 4k for it, then it should have all new parts or at least be designed to be a proper visual match for the parts it is using. Both cable and headband arc look lazily pasted on to a design they don't belong to.

post #368 of 1512

I confirm that the cable of new SR-009 is the same as used for SR-507. Stax has claimed that this new cable type is better than older version that used for SR-007 MKII and lamda series and it costs higher two times.

post #369 of 1512
Quote:
Originally Posted by IPodPJ View Post

Unless you're referring to something completely different --

Is 118dB not enough, which is the rated max on the SR-009?  The HD800 can go to 126dB if I'm not mistaken (based on the math) but would you ever listen that loud?  And how many recordings really take advantage of that kind of dynamic range?  Most people at the very max would listen at 105dB for short periods; even at 110dB you're still covered.


Perhaps you didn't read my previous posts in this thread.

 

post #370 of 1512
Quote:
Originally Posted by business_jj View Post

I confirm that the cable of new SR-009 is the same as used for SR-507. Stax has claimed that this new cable type is better than older version that used for SR-007 MKII and lamda series and it costs higher two times.

 

I can't imagine that to be true at all.  Most people at least on Head-Fi prefer OCC copper to SPC, and OCC costs more to manufacture.  Granted they are using high purity SPC, but it's still not as pure or expensive to make as OCC copper.  It may indeed sound better with the new model, but more expensive to make I doubt.
 

 

post #371 of 1512
Quote:
Originally Posted by business_jj View Post

I confirm that the cable of new SR-009 is the same as used for SR-507. Stax has claimed that this new cable type is better than older version that used for SR-007 MKII and lamda series and it costs higher two times.



Yeah I'll trust Stax over a random commercial cable DIY'er for opinions about quality wire

post #372 of 1512

This new wire isn't silver plated, it's silver wire with a small copper core similar to what APS is using.  It's also bundled with larger copper wires to make up one phase of the cable. 

 

As for any consensus WRT to wire on HF has to be the most retarded post of the day. 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieE View Post





That's what I thought from just looking. I don't really think that's acceptable for a flagship personally.

 

If they're charging 4k for it, then it should have all new parts or at least be designed to be a proper visual match for the parts it is using. Both cable and headband arc look lazily pasted on to a design they don't belong to.

 

How is this any different to the SR-Omega or the Orpheus for that matter?  The SR-Omega used the same arc as the 23000Yen Alpha Pro and the Orpheus uses the same exact cable entry and headband setup as the HE60. 


Edited by spritzer - 3/20/11 at 2:14pm
post #373 of 1512


Quote:

Originally Posted by spritzer View Post

 

How is this any different to the SR-Omega or the Orpheus for that matter?  The SR-Omega used the same arc as the 23000Yen Alpha Pro and the Orpheus uses the same exact cable entry and headband setup as the HE60. 

 

What if it wasn't any different? Pointing out similar problems in other phones does not excuse the existence of those problems in this one. 

 

With the SR-Omega it is the same problem. I always thought the headband looked out of place, now I realise why. The Alpha is a completely different headphone design and the Omega looked cobbled together as a result. I always felt the headband arc was way too thin for cups that wide, speaking in terms of aesthetic design at least. Now at first glance of the Alpha on Google image it looks to be the same or a very similar headband to the Gamma too which I had seen before. I have no problem with that as it is a seamless match.


As I said "or at least be designed to be a proper visual match for the parts it is using".  

 

I'm not complaining that the SR-507 uses the same basket as the SR-407 - they are both based on the same design, just like the HE60 and HE90 are both based on the design. The 507 and 407 using the same parts is seamless, the HE60 and HE90 using the same cable entry and headband is seamless and while in an ideal world they would create a new headphone every time from the point of view of someone who appreciates design, it doesn't offend my eye.

 

This is a different story. The headband and cable entry on this phone belong to completely different design of headphones and it stands out a mile off.

 

The bottom line is this is the sort of thing that will not bother a lot of people, and that's fine, how it sounds is of course the most important thing. But I also think it is fine to care about product design, and to expect a manufacturer to take pride in all areas of their product.

 

 

post #374 of 1512

I will buy one and it doesn't bother me in the least. IMO these are the best looking headphones ever made and the arc assembly looks very good on it.

 

As to the HE90 not offending the eyes, it is a case of good looks over function, the assembly is held together with the cups with a microscopically tiny screw that can fail. In fact when they're shipped Sennheiser Germany recommends people detach the headband from the earcups.


Edited by J-Pak - 3/20/11 at 4:43pm
post #375 of 1512

of course as an engineer I think most of the cable commentary is silly for any headphone - but do you people realize just how different the operating conditions for ES headphones are?

 

if a cable were to make a difference an engineer would expect this to mean there was a audibly significant voltage difference between one end and the other

 

in case you hadn't noticed the Stax voltage sensitivity number is ~ 100x less than your typical dynamic headphone - which might lead an engineer to suggest any voltage difference across the cable from wire composition has about 100x less influence on ES sound

 

then you need to consider that any cable V drop is also going to dependent on current - at average listening levels, for typical 3 KHz power bandwidth music signal the Stax draw another factor of 10-100x less current than dynamic headphones

 

just to be conservative in piling on the estimates suppose we say cable wire metal in ES headphones is 100 x 10 ~= 1000 less important than it would be for say  K70x, much less an ortho

 

 

 

the special conditions of low capacitance and safety required double insulation mean you'd be nuts to by a 3rd party ES cable anyway


Edited by jcx - 3/20/11 at 5:44pm
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