D2000 vs HD650 | Comparison & Review - Page 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slaughter 

Also surprised in your journey you didn't try the superior HD600.

 Whoa! I think an IMO was called for there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pp312 

Very nice review, but to me this is the essence in a few words:

 

"But the D2000 gets it perfect, by boosting the bass and treble," 

 

Yes indeed, and therein lies the problem. I owned the D2000 (I currently own 650s) and I would agree with your assessment exactly. I'm even certain you're right that the D2000 is superior, or at least more exciting, on music with a beat. But putting aside the fact that I only listen to classical, there's the simple question of fidelity and neutrality, and there (by your own admission I suggest) the 650 tromps the D2000. I knew after a few minutes that D2000 was not for me. I could have lived with the bass, which was nicely subterranean. But the treble...waaaaay too much treble. You can take just about any neutral phone including the 650, boost the treble and end up with sharper transients and an altogether more exciting sound, but that's not hi-fidelity. I don't mean you shouldn't like that sound; just that it subjectivises your review to the point where it applies only to you and those who like the sound you like and the music you like; it can't be taken in a broader application as a statement of the superiority of one product over another.

 

Still, you've done a bang-up job; I couldn't write as detailed review as that. And it's useful too, even if more by reading between the lines than on them. If I were considering one of these phones, your review would have settled me on the 650s without doubt, and probably saved me a lot of money. I just wish you'd written it before I bought a pair of D2000s.     

Nicely put pp312. I think Katun has done a great job with the writeup, but for it to be of any value he needs to present the other side of the coin. As it stands the impressionable masses are likely to take it as a D2000 > HD650 absolute, rather than someone who loves a V presentation stating he has found the perfect cans for his needs.

I also chose the Denon over Sennheiser because of the sound signature I prefer and music genres I listen to, but I felt HD650's were technically superior headphones.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TobaccoRoad 

I also chose the Denon over Sennheiser because of the sound signature I prefer and music genres I listen to, but I felt HD650's were technically superior headphones.

When I acquire an RS1i or MS-Pro I suspect I'll utter the same words, but with Alessandro/Grado substituted for Denon.

Great comparison. I've had my D2000 for over 2 years now and they still impress me every time I listen to them.

Who are you to say what is hi-fidelity and then say I needed to add an "IMO" on my statement? The 650 is neutral? Compared to what? There is not a single audio review or product recommendation ever written that isn't subjective or IMO....

Quote:

Originally Posted by pp312 
 You can take just about any neutral phone including the 650, boost the treble and end up with sharper transients and an altogether more exciting sound, but that's not hi-fidelity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pp312 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slaughter 

Also surprised in your journey you didn't try the superior HD600.

 Whoa! I think an IMO was called for there.

Thanks for this review , am still hesitating to get the D2k

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slaughter 

Who are you to say what is hi-fidelity and then say I needed to add an "IMO" on my statement? The 650 is neutral? Compared to what? There is not a single audio review or product recommendation ever written that isn't subjective or IMO....

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by pp312 
 You can take just about any neutral phone including the 650, boost the treble and end up with sharper transients and an altogether more exciting sound, but that's not hi-fidelity.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by pp312 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slaughter 

Also surprised in your journey you didn't try the superior HD600.

 Whoa! I think an IMO was called for there.

 

Well, aren't we sensitive. My point was not that the 650 is neutral in an absolute sense, which of course no phone is; but rather that adding treble to any phone gives the impression of better transients and general clarity. Whether the 650 is more or less neutral than any other phone is irrelevant.

As for the "IMO", your statement did need qualifying. Had you said, "Surprised you didn't try the superior Stax 4040" you might have got away with it, but the apparent assumption that we all accept the 600 as superior to the 650 was a little radical for my blood. I personally dislike the 600, but you won't see me posting about the superiority of the 650, at least not without an IMO.    

Has nothing to do with sensitivity. You called me out for no putting IMO, which again, every statement made on this forum about sound is IMO. Then you turned around and made absolute statements about hi-fidelity and the neutrality of the HD650. And you just did it again. I might have got away with using Stax? Why, because in your opinion you think it's better? See my point? We would have to qualify every recommendation/statement we make with IMO. Some things can be assumed and IMO is one of them.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by pp312 

Well, aren't we sensitive. My point was not that the 650 is neutral in an absolute sense, which of course no phone is; but rather that adding treble to any phone gives the impression of better transients and general clarity. Whether the 650 is more or less neutral than any other phone is irrelevant.

 

As for the "IMO", your statement did need qualifying. Had you said, "Surprised you didn't try the superior Stax 4040" you might have got away with it, but the apparent assumption that we all accept the 600 as superior to the 650 was a little radical for my blood. I personally dislike the 600, but you won't see me posting about the superiority of the 650, at least not without an IMO.    

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruze 

Thanks for this review , am still hesitating to get the D2k

then get them from someplace like Amazon, which will allow return for full refund?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slaughter 

Has nothing to do with sensitivity. You called me out for no putting IMO, which again, every statement made on this forum about sound is IMO. Then you turned around and made absolute statements about hi-fidelity and the neutrality of the HD650. And you just did it again. I might have got away with using Stax? Why, because in your opinion you think it's better? See my point? We would have to qualify every recommendation/statement we make with IMO. Some things can be assumed and IMO is one of them.
 

I made absolute statements about hi-fidelity and the neutrality of the 650? Are we on the same page? I said that no phone is neutral, including the 650; that's not an absolute statement but a simple axiom. As for the Stax 4040 reference, I used that for no other reason than that its superiority over the 650 would generally be accepted by most readers and thus shouldn't require "IMO". You referenced a phone that's actually a rung down from the 650 as if its superiority was a generally accepted fact, which I challenged.

We could carry this on indefinitely, but it's hardly worth the typing. I'll simply reiterate that some things can be generally assumed and don't need "IMO". That the 600 is superior to the 650 is most definitely not one of them.  

I for one assume "IMO" whenever reading audio comments of any sort that aren't specifications or test results...

And I also am glad for the review by the O.P. - now I can say that I am very glad I decided to go with the HD 600 over the D2000.