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Windows Phone 7 - Page 4

post #46 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieE View Post

Well to brings things back on topic, I don't think WP7 is going anywhere. Outside of the US the Xbox didn't do very well if I remember, MS just kept pouring money down the drain with it until they won their market share with 360. Mobile phone business is too big for MS to give up on, they'll keep plugging away and claw themselves something in the end. They will be competitors one day just by virtue of the patience their cash affords them.

 

For me, I love the WP7 UI. It might not have the depth of the more established smart phones but what it does it does extremely well and Windows 8 looks pant-wettingly good. I think when 8 comes out and people get exposed to the live tiles thing, it'll draw more people towards WP7. We'll see.


I can guarantee it will be at least 5 times more successful when Nokia swaps over. Nokia is still one of the leading smartphone makers in much of the world.
post #47 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by revolink24 View Post

I can guarantee it will be at least 5 times more successful when Nokia swaps over. Nokia is still one of the leading smartphone makers in much of the world.


I'd like to be optimistic about this as well.  I don't know if MS would allow the digital output like other Nokia devices but that is my hope.  Doubtful.

 

post #48 of 125

Nokia is number 2 after Apple in smartphones, if memory serves, so Microsoft made a pretty good partnership in it's hopes to really compete with Apple and Google. I don't call RIM competition anymore.

 

@EddieE, I thought you were saying it wasn't going to grow when you said it wasn't going anywhere, not that it's going to stick around. But in that context I agree. Microsoft has no problem pouring loads of money into unsuccessful products. Just look at Silverlight. That was dead in the water before it launched and they're only just now starting to back away from it.

 

I want to see where the OS is in two years. It's still early days so a lot can, and likely will, change. I look at how far iOS has come with the upcoming release of iOS 5 and think of where WP7 is starting. It's got a great foundation of functionality, now it's just got to tweak and improve it.

 

Though, I think it's biggest hurdle is the name. Windows Phone 7. It's too similar to Windows Mobile 6, which sucked on so many levels. If they were smart, it'd just be Microsoft Metro or Windows Metro if you wanted to keep the branding tied to the desktop OS. For those who don't know, Metro is the name of the UI. That way it'd be this entirely different thing and wouldn't carry the stigma of the previous Microsoft mobile OS.

 

People underestimate how important little things like names can be.

post #49 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by revolink24 View Post



I can guarantee it will be at least 5 times more successful when Nokia swaps over. Nokia is still one of the leading smartphone makers in much of the world.


not in the UK its not, Nokia is is a death spiral and i cannot see WP7 helping it any.

post #50 of 125

No, but in Europe iOS is huge so WP7 isn't going to take a large amount of market share anyway.

post #51 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark2410 View Post





not in the UK its not, Nokia is is a death spiral and i cannot see WP7 helping it any.


Nokia makes great hardware, the only reason they're on a death spiral is they clung to Symbian for too many years. Blackberry is on the same path.
post #52 of 125

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by revolink24 View Post

Blackberry is on the same path.


RIM's problem is that by the time they actually created a semi-passable OS they said they won't be running it on any of their current phones and we'll have to wait for an entirely new generation of Blackberries before we get what is currently their tablet-only OS on their phones, which they actually sell to more than five people.

post #53 of 125

I think Nokia still has huge name recognition and despite a disappointing entry into the smart phone era with an awful OS you still see a hell of a lot of Nokias around in the UK.

 

 

 

I think if they continued on with their own ****ty smartphone OS then it would eventually kill them off, but they aren't there yet by my judgement.

 

I do think WP7 and Nokia will be very good for one another, but it's Windows 8 that'll really help it take off.

post #54 of 125

I think that all told Nokia is the largest seller of cellphones in the world. They haven't made a splash in the smartphone market but they're by no means something to scoff at. They know how to make a good phone. The best phone I ever had (as far as phones go) was my little klondike Nokia. Week-long battery, could throw it against the wall and it'd be just fine.

post #55 of 125
Microsoft should pack it up, they were too late to the party. Apple is on its fifth generation of iOS and Android is pretty good, too. WP7 is hopelessly late, like WebOS and RIM, both of which will end up in the tech graveyard within a year or so, maybe earlier. Just like the Zune, which came several years too late. Or Bing.

Microsoft only has two real products left, Windows and Office. Windows is about to get buried by mobile OSes for consumers and Linux in the enterprise. Windows 7 is a good OS (after 20 years), but it's a 20th century product. Everyone is going to demand seamless integration with mobile OSes in a year or two. WP7 won't get more than a few percent of market, so everyone will want integration with iOS and Android. If a document handling program bridges all of those, business customers will drop Windows/Office for the new software. It'll be deadly for Microsoft if it's FOSS, like OpenOffice. Most businesses only run Windows for Office doc handling. Offer a free replacement that makes employees happy and businesses will run Linux to cut off contract fees. Not only that, but they'll love offloading the cost of buying/maintaining mobile devices to employees who buy their own. (RIM is dead for this reason, too.)

The one thing missing right now is a good way to handle documents across multiple OSes. Microsoft should immediately port Office across iOS, Android, OS X, Windows, and Linux. Make it easy to shoot documents across all of those and work with them. They still have time to dominate document handling. If they don't, someone else is going to and that will begin the slow demise of Microsoft. They have enough cash and legacy income from Windows/Office to last several years. But that's going to slip as more people conduct business on phones and tablets.

It's too late to crack the mobile OS/hardware market. Google and Apple are big, deep companies with feet firmly on the accelerator. There will be no catching them with this. Maybe with a next generation of products. But not today and probably not in the next five to ten years.
post #56 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by revolink24 View Post



Nokia makes great hardware, the only reason they're on a death spiral is they clung to Symbian for too many years. Blackberry is on the same path.


 

no nokia has bigger problems than that, Symbian wasnt their problem.  rufusing to use UIQ as the user interface was.  they clung to S60 and insisted on adapting it and molding it to touch.  they decided they had to own the whole platform rather than be just a hardware vendor forgeting that its hardware that they do so well.  they should be doing meamo (not meego) and WP7 and android and symbian if anyone wants it.  HTC and samsung are all happy to do them all and let the consumer decide what they like rather than marry your fortunes to a small platform that cant seem to gather any momentum.


Edited by mark2410 - 8/12/11 at 1:15pm
post #57 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark2410 View Post

 

no nokia has bigger problems than that, Symbian wasnt their problem.  rufusing to use UIQ as the user interface was.  they clung to S60 and insisted on adapting it and molding it to touch.  they decided they had to own the whole platform rather than be just a hardware vendor forgeting that its hardware that they do so well.  they should be doing meamo (not meego) and WP7 and android and symbian if anyone wants it.  HTC and samsung are all happy to do them all and let the consumer decide what they like rather than marry your fortunes to a small platform that cant seem to gather any momentum.


This why Nokia needs an N10.

 

http://mynokiablog.com/2011/07/10/my-dream-nokia-29-nokia-n10-triple-boot-android-meego-harmattan-windows-phone-mango-concept/

 

Though WP7 will still wreck your sd cards.  They really need to change this.

 

http://ars.samsung.com/customer/usa/jsp/faqs/faqs_view_us.jsp?SITE_ID=22&PG_ID=2&PROD_SUB_ID=557&PROD_ID=558&AT_ID=344529

 

post #58 of 125

I really do not see the big deal with the SD cards. I really don't.

post #59 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougofTheAbaci View Post

I really do not see the big deal with the SD cards. I really don't.

 

Odd since you mentioned it was quite an 'oversight' earlier.  Perhaps you don't swap your cards between devices.  If you have multiple cards w/ movies, music and photos and other data you're SoL.  Some people have a dedicated wallet stacked w/ cards.  This is the essence of multimedia and multi-tasking.  Why even have an external slot if you just hijack the card anyway?  What's the point of removable media that becomes integrated into the OS and can't be used w/ anything else?  Only reason is to pass the storage costs to the consumer in which case Apple provides a more logical implementation.  No external cards at all!  If you just need a 'phone' and basic internet device then obviously you want have a problem.  

 

It just makes no sense.  All they have to do is run off an internal memory module rather than hijack any card I stick in the device rendering it useless for anything else.  Its a violation of the whole concept of 'removable media' and standards.  I can even take Sony memory stick and use it w/ another device provided it has a reader, geez.  Taking a universal standard and making it proprietary is far more ridiculous than a proprietary standard w/ universal application.  Imagine if Microsoft made a VCR during the VHS/Betamax wars and said you could use VHS (cool!) but only in their VCRs (not cool). Can't let your friends borrow tapes.  Can't borrow or rent tapes from the store w/o formatting them.  Brilliant.

 

If you still don't get let's just drop it then.  There isn't even a debate to be had IMO.

 

post #60 of 125

Yes, but I think my later comments were deleted (we know why). In that I point out that I can see why it's done the way it is and when viewed in a certain light it's not that big a deal.

 

Basically, just to reiterate myself, what they're doing is expanding the phone's filesystem onto the SD card which gives the OS more space to expand. Why they chose to do this, I do not know but if I were to guess it's because of the ease by which you can now integrate that storage. Basically, doing a RAID0 array (or close enough as makes no difference). Which also explains why you can't remove the SD card once it's put in.

 

Now, nothing on a phone is the only copy. Smartphones backup your content to your computer anyway, at least, that content that wasn't on your computer to begin with (movies, music, photos, ect.) so there's no worry of a single-copy of anything.

 

Then you see they're looking at the SD card not as a way to have removable media on the phone but as a way to easily expand the phone's total capacity after purchase. Now instead of buying an entirely new phone just because you want more space you can simply buy a new SD card, which can be pretty massive in size.

 

In some ways that actually makes more sense to me and I could see why you would choose to do that. I can even see why you'd make it hard to format the card (anyone who's done tech support as a job can understand why you'd make anything you don't want people doing hard). Would I have done things that way? Probably not. But I can understand the logic.

 

Also, you're mixing terms. Open standard refers to anything anyone can implement. Flash is an open standard. RAID is an open standard. H.264 is an open standard. Proprietary means no one but the company who created it can use it.

 

Also, as another side note, that's exactly what happened with Betamax so there's no need for a Microsoft with VHS comparison. It's too bad, really. Betamax cassettes were smaller and higher quality.

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