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Cables and Snake Oil - Please read before you are fooled! - Page 6

post #76 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by sokolov91 View Post

As far as I am concerned, all talk of cables should be banned on head-fi, and not DBT. Too bad cable distributors can give so much cash to head-fi due to their retarded high profit margins... makes it very hard for the staff to make a stand due to financial reasons.


Even if I ignore the fact that there are real issues to consider (keeping cable resistance <5% of speaker resistance), and the fact that not talking will not help those coming in with questions: I believe there's also a genuine discussion of aesthitcs and ergonomics to have.

 

In headphones in particular; cable will be conspicuious. Having a cable that attaches securely, doesn't tangle easily, isn't too heavy, doesn't tend to physically degrade... I think three's a lot that could be discussed.

 

How they sound just isn't part of it.

post #77 of 170

My ignore list is rapidly growing lately....

post #78 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kees View Post

My ignore list is rapidly growing lately....



ignoring people who disagree with you is a great way to keep happy, but a heard way to learn anything.

 

might you contribute something other than calling people names for not agreeing with you? Have you ever proved you can hear differences between cables? I would love to see that proof... if you have it of course.

post #79 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryLove View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by sokolov91 View Post

As far as I am concerned, all talk of cables should be banned on head-fi, and not DBT. Too bad cable distributors can give so much cash to head-fi due to their retarded high profit margins... makes it very hard for the staff to make a stand due to financial reasons.


Even if I ignore the fact that there are real issues to consider (keeping cable resistance <5% of speaker resistance), and the fact that not talking will not help those coming in with questions: I believe there's also a genuine discussion of aesthitcs and ergonomics to have.

 

In headphones in particular; cable will be conspicuious. Having a cable that attaches securely, doesn't tangle easily, isn't too heavy, doesn't tend to physically degrade... I think three's a lot that could be discussed.

 

How they sound just isn't part of it.


this is true... but people write a mere sentence about ergonomics and can write entire novels on the supposed change in sound.

 

I am all for talking about cables if it is ergonomics and looks. Recently I just striped my LCD-2 cable of all the black stuff and wool on the inside. makes it much lighter and easier to handle... and GASP, the sound hasn't changed any an d I will suggest people with weight issues do the same.

 

but when people write novellas on things that do not exist, we have an issue..

post #80 of 170

And growing...

post #81 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kees View Post

And growing...



LOL maybe try staying out of these parts of the forum? Or make your own Kees forum and ban anyone who disagrees with you?

post #82 of 170

Oh, and when I ask for scientific proof of the statement that the differences measured in cables have no audible consequences, it always stays awfully quiet....

post #83 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kees View Post

Oh, and when I ask for scientific proof of the statement that the differences measured in cables have no audible consequences, it always stays awfully quiet....


Prog Rock Man provided you with some?

 

I could go dig up some stuff from Ebscohost... but whats the point?

 

No one on "either side" is going to change their mind regardless of how much proof there is.

 

Simple DBT is a great way to show people first hand what is going on... this way they do not have to rely on other people, which is understandable right? I wouldn't want someone else's poor ears to have mine labled as crazy...

 

There are great sources other than google and I will try and dig some stuff up I used for a paper in college.

post #84 of 170
post #85 of 170


i am offering 100,000000 for james randi's head..as soon as somebody proves those cables are indeed better

post #86 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by buffalowings View Post




i am offering 100,000000 for james randi's head..as soon as somebody proves those cables are indeed better


hahaha hey if it happens I would HATE to be him... but it would seem it will never happen and his message is loud and clear.

post #87 of 170

Seriously, what's the inside baseball on Randi?  Is he hanging tough, or has he disappeared?

post #88 of 170

From past experience, many years ago, wires and ground planes that are not pure copper do have inductance & capacitance.  The ground plane on the space shuttles main engine controllers (MEC)  has aluminum to protect from extreme heat conditions.   When an inductive valve opened up the current stopped at the valve and put > 30K on the ground plane which brought all 3 main engine controllers down.  Due to the capacitance & inductance in the ground plane, the MECs ground plane was > 15Kv to reference ground.

 

Also cables can act as wave guides at high frequencies which can cause reflections, especially with an impedance mismatch.  Audio signals are considered low frequencies and should not exhibit reflections under normal operating conditions. (There are extreme examples someone can come up, I'm sure)

post #89 of 170

I don't know why I still lurk this thread...oh wait, yes I do...it helps me fall asleep at night! tongue.gif

post #90 of 170


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by myinitialsaredac View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by Prog Rock Man View Post

There are a load of blind tests here

 

http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/486598/testing-audiophile-claims-and-myths

 

 

For me, the overwhelming evidence is the lack of any sort of connection between cable construction and sound.

 

1 - blind testing shows no link

 

I read through the links you posted in your thread. Thank you for taking the time to put that together.

It may just be me but I did not find any of the blind tests pertinent to cables to be well conducted, for example this one:

http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/190566/blind-cable-taste-test-results

 

If someone had never heard different cables before or was only working off of preconceptions how is this in any way yielding pertinent results? As one of the people in the experiment noted, he developed preferences consistently for each of the cables. The other issue in general for these is the sample size. 

 

2 - actual construction eg silver vs copper shows no link

 

Perhaps the handling of current of different highly conductive metals is not different? From an MO (molecular orbital) perspective I don't think that would be far fetched. I would say impurities would have more effect if there is a difference, which to my knowledge has not been answered (at least for me). 

 

3 - any apparent link is a weak one and is based on finding differences in cables such as eddy currants and then suggesting that they cause sound differences. Other reasons such as placebo are ignored in reaching such conclusions.

 

I feel that you are implying that eddy currents are a made up phenomena? It is apparent that eddy currents exist (they have to as long as there are impurities), however the question is if they are audible. Placebo is not ignored, but if someone is looking for an explanation it seems that using placebo effect as an explanation would be one of the last steps.

 


Answered in bold above.

 

Dave


Hi Dave

 

1 - what was wrong with that test? I do not understand the relevance of not having heard different cables before and preconceptions to that test. If a cable is audibly different, it will sound different no matter who listens to it and what conceptions they have, if the difference is outwith the listener and is in the cable.

 

2 - there was no intended implication that eddy is made up. The question is indeed are such and all of the other claims about cable construction audible? So far there is no link between construction and audible difference. But there is a very good explanation when placebo is introduced.

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