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Cables and Snake Oil - Please read before you are fooled! - Page 3

post #31 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Root2 View Post

 


Now I designed the cable with a very sceptical mind

 

You designed a cable? That must have taken quite a bit of research? Is your degree in engineering or science? Did this in any way stem from work you did on thesis (such as Dr.Bose's thesis on non-linear systems)? What drew you to take a look at audio reproduction? Do you have any background in sound research, physiology, or psychology?

 

I'm working from the assumption that you didn't put all the time and effort of developing a new wire on the assumption that you could do better without some basic understanding of what was going wrong in the first place?

 

What factors did you find were most important in getting a useful signal to the transducer at the other end? Most engineers and physicists in the industry have pointed squarely at impedance in high power lines (such as speaker line); specifically the relationship of the resistance of the entire cable as a percentage of the resistance of the circuit (why speaker gauge needs to go up with lower ohm-ratings and longer lengths).

 

We have about 150 year of some of the greatest minds in the world working on electrical cabling (throughout the communications and power distribution world). What did you discover that they had thusfar missed and how did you discover it?

post #32 of 170

.


Edited by Root2 - 2/2/14 at 8:30pm
post #33 of 170

These threads always turn into a pissing match. It gets people nowhere. Who cares, if you have hundreds of dollars to shell out for cables and you think they sound different then godspeed.

 

Man, seriously some debates should just be put to bed for good.

post #34 of 170

Quote:

Originally Posted by Root2 View Post

Dear Love Jerry or Tom,

 

1) I have designed power supplies and audio for over 40 yrs

2) I  have 3 degrees in Chemistry, Electronic and Computer Science

3  I owned and started A.C.Magnum, Inca Tech, Inca Design, TOCA, Root 2 Ltd, Root 2 Design Ltd , Catch XXII, Tellurium Q Ltd, IPI Technology Ltd

4) I have been a consultant to Naim Audio, Cambridge Audio, Etude BV, Audium and  few other not in audio.

 

As for power 55V@ 100KA yes 100,000Amps 150KV @ 1Amp and SMPSU for NASA, and British Aero Space, Belix, 

 

Do you think I may have some useful knowledge ?

You may; but you didn't directly answer a single question I asked. (unless I was supposed to infer "Electronic and Computer Science" was a science degree; which they are not... though Chemestry is; so perhaps one question was answered (though surprisingly inspecifically))

 

*Maybe* "designed audio" was meant to assert a background in sound research? I'm guessing not though.

Quote:

I have a few patents some in electronic some not? oh and 2 in conductors and another waiting to be completed..

I designed the biggest Single Ended Class A amp, and the quietest thyristor  SSR that needs no filter to pass EMC and RFI specs including MIL Spec

 

So and what have you done to allow you to be so sure a new concept or design as not been discovered by a unknown? And to discuss any idea I may have on this site or any other would be silly would it not.

You are asking a question without prescedent. Specifically: I never said that no new concept or design had been discovered by an unknown. Given that fact: you seem to be attempting to side-track from the question asked. Perhaps you just feel offended and have a need to show off. Perhaps you don't have good answers to the questions asked and so the distraction is intentional. I can only guess.

 

Did this in any way stem from work you did on thesis (such as Dr.Bose's thesis on non-linear systems)? What drew you to take a look at audio reproduction? Do you have any background in sound research, physiology, or psychology?

 

What factors did you find were most important in getting a useful signal to the transducer at the other end? Most engineers and physicists in the industry have pointed squarely at impedance in high power lines (such as speaker line); specifically the relationship of the resistance of the entire cable as a percentage of the resistance of the circuit (why speaker gauge needs to go up with lower ohm-ratings and longer lengths).

 

What did you discover that the rest of the world has thusfar missed and how did you discover it?

post #35 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryLove View Post

What did you discover that the rest of the world has thusfar missed and how did you discover it?



Skin effect. tongue.gif

post #36 of 170

I think we have a upcoming Uncle Erik here.confused_face.gif
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryLove View Post

 

You designed a cable? That must have taken quite a bit of research? Is your degree in engineering or science? Did this in any way stem from work you did on thesis (such as Dr.Bose's thesis on non-linear systems)? What drew you to take a look at audio reproduction? Do you have any background in sound research, physiology, or psychology?

 

I'm working from the assumption that you didn't put all the time and effort of developing a new wire on the assumption that you could do better without some basic understanding of what was going wrong in the first place?

 

What factors did you find were most important in getting a useful signal to the transducer at the other end? Most engineers and physicists in the industry have pointed squarely at impedance in high power lines (such as speaker line); specifically the relationship of the resistance of the entire cable as a percentage of the resistance of the circuit (why speaker gauge needs to go up with lower ohm-ratings and longer lengths).

 

We have about 150 year of some of the greatest minds in the world working on electrical cabling (throughout the communications and power distribution world). What did you discover that they had thusfar missed and how did you discover it?



 

post #37 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by kboe View Post

I think we have a upcoming Uncle Erik here.confused_face.gif
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryLove View Post

 

You designed a cable? That must have taken quite a bit of research? Is your degree in engineering or science? Did this in any way stem from work you did on thesis (such as Dr.Bose's thesis on non-linear systems)? What drew you to take a look at audio reproduction? Do you have any background in sound research, physiology, or psychology?

 

I'm working from the assumption that you didn't put all the time and effort of developing a new wire on the assumption that you could do better without some basic understanding of what was going wrong in the first place?

 

What factors did you find were most important in getting a useful signal to the transducer at the other end? Most engineers and physicists in the industry have pointed squarely at impedance in high power lines (such as speaker line); specifically the relationship of the resistance of the entire cable as a percentage of the resistance of the circuit (why speaker gauge needs to go up with lower ohm-ratings and longer lengths).

 

We have about 150 year of some of the greatest minds in the world working on electrical cabling (throughout the communications and power distribution world). What did you discover that they had thusfar missed and how did you discover it?



 



LOL...hey, ur back

post #38 of 170

 

Moderators may have the power to ban, but thats easily beaten with my power of....  actually they just let me back.

post #39 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by kboe View Post

 

Moderators may have the power to ban, but thats easily beaten with my power of....  actually they just let me back.



XDD...fight the power man...fight the power, I was going to make a petition for you, but i just sent in my application to have a custom title 'lord sennheiser"

post #40 of 170

Awwwww, that gives me warm fuzzies.

 

 

 

 

 

Swats around furiously thinking, "I hate these things"

 

post #41 of 170

I'm confused, but perhaps too new on the board to get the reference.

 

To me, when we have a designer of cables, one with a long and varied history and who has stated to themselves be a skeptic, we have an opportunity for a robust definition of what alters (or lessens alteration) of waves in a cable. While a "I can hear better sound" listener may be stuck with an inability to quantify, or even give reasons for his experience: a thrice-degree'd designer with so much work under his belt should have no such problem.

 

You might decide you like an Ohm Walsh more than a B&W 802, and layman can argue about why all day, but if we ask Walsh: he can sit and tell you *why* he likes it more. He can discuss what problems he found with existing designs (off-axis response and multi-cone source and crossover), and how he designed a solution (a single cone radiating 180-degrees on the horizontal) in great and specific detail. (For the record: I've been in a long, details, and heated debate on omni-polar vs. mono-polar rigs and sonic fidelity. While having not changed my mind on all points, I learned a lot)

 

So what better an opportunity to ask probing questions? I don't understand how that is anything other than a chance for an increase in real knowledge. Why would the curious (or dubious) avoid them; and why would the knowldgeable do something other than answer.


Edited by JerryLove - 1/2/11 at 7:54pm
post #42 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by limpidglitch View Post

Sorry, Colin, but that blather came across as completely meaningless.

 

Sorry about that comment. I just realized you were dyslectic.

post #43 of 170

 

I actually like what you bring up here Jerry.  This hobby is all about discovery, it's why some of us change our gear so often.  It's also why we listen to great varieties of music, and prefer all manner of things over many other things.  

 

But at some point, when you've heard enough cables, and if you can consistently hear the differences and influences among them, when someone tells you your full of crap, or you can't really hear a difference, you can only think a difference, you've already discovered that part of the journey and need to "go" no further.  

 

Think of it like a spouse or love.  You look, search, date and for some of you weirdos stalk, but eventually you learn a few tricks and manage to snag yourself someone you care about and who cares about you.  Once you get married, you "done" on that part of the journey, now its time to focus in and learn about the particular.  

 

With cables, at least for me, its the same deal.  I've "dated" many offerings, found one I liked, "married" it, and am living happily ever after. So when someone comes up to me and says, "cables make no difference", or in my other analogy "your wife "gets around", to late buddy, I already now my wife, and her name is Cardas!

 

And if you "wife" is Mono Price, or Blue Jeans or Radio Shack, I don't care.  Just love her!

 

And rather than just us all attacking newbies with "our" side of the argument, we should all be in agreement to tell them, "try it for yourself and tell us what YOU think"


Edited by kboe - 1/2/11 at 8:15pm
post #44 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGreen View Post

Science shows that a functional cable makes no difference.

 

Science also shows that placebo is real. There's no reason to hate on someone for enjoying placebo. They're actually noticing a difference - even if it isn't there.



What science?

 

I can show you with an oscilloscope that cables have electrical differences.

 

To my knowledge no one has taken the time to analyze binaural recording of different wires in a system in soundforge or the like...

 

The problem with this argument is both sides have flawed evidence and no one has stepped forward to get evidence in either direction that has more conviction. 

 

To that end it is a pointless argument, thus the believe whatever you want attitude.

 

If you hear a difference great, get cables.  If you dont, then dont get better cables. 

 

Dave

post #45 of 170

ive never compared cables in my life, and have no strong opinion on the matter.  I do find it interesting though that so many people argue science as the end all be all, and im not just referring to audio cables.

 

in the grand scheme of explaining the endless marvels and wonder in this world.. science has barely scratched the surface, and has a very limited scope.  For any subject you pick its almost certain that science may have missed, or doesnt even know about any number of variables.

 

my goodness how many times, even within the most prominent scientific fileds, has a rock solid "proven" theory been turned on its head and found to be much bigger and more complex than anyone could have ever imagined.

 

i also always get a little skeptical when people argue hardcore science over good ol fashioned experience.  Nearly every person on this planet has easily had at least 1 experience that science cant explain.  Thats not to say that experience isnt just as easily skewed..  but anyway....

 

im not interested in arguing with anyone about this.. just throwin it out there.  just because there is a chart, or even years of research doesnt make it true


Edited by Br777 - 1/2/11 at 8:38pm
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