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Grado Fan Club! - Page 508

post #7606 of 24602
Just bought my first set of grado sr60i. Planning on picking up some l cush from amazon and saw ear zonk brand cushions as an alternative. Anyone using these?

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post #7607 of 24602
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrystalT View Post


There were some tests a few years back on head-fi where someone used a spectrogram to analyze lossless and v0. The compression artifacts were far above the range of human hearing, supporting that lossless and raw formats are empirically indistinguishable from a good v0 encoding. It got derailed quickly, and faded in to obscurity.

Sent from my SPH-L300 using Tapatalk 2

 

 

http://entertainment.slashdot.org/story/13/03/22/178213/can-you-really-hear-the-difference-between-lossless-lossy-audio

 

above link to slashdot first hit after simply googling can you hear difference between lossless and lossy mp3, an interesting discussion with a range of opinions... it in turn linked to below authoritative sounding article (i'm not an audio/recording engineer or codec designer), questioning 24/192...   

 

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html


Edited by woophoria - 6/15/13 at 11:54am
post #7608 of 24602
Quote:
Originally Posted by alrgeez View Post

Just bought my first set of grado sr60i. Planning on picking up some l cush from amazon and saw ear zonk brand cushions as an alternative. Anyone using these?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

 

All my Grados have their stock pads, but congrats on grabbing one of the greatest headphones of all time :)

post #7609 of 24602
Quote:
Originally Posted by woophoria View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrystalT View Post


There were some tests a few years back on head-fi where someone used a spectrogram to analyze lossless and v0. The compression artifacts were far above the range of human hearing, supporting that lossless and raw formats are empirically indistinguishable from a good v0 encoding. It got derailed quickly, and faded in to obscurity.

Sent from my SPH-L300 using Tapatalk 2

 

 

http://entertainment.slashdot.org/story/13/03/22/178213/can-you-really-hear-the-difference-between-lossless-lossy-audio

 

above link to slashdot first hit after simply googling can you hear difference between lossless and lossy mp3, an interesting discussion with a range of opinions... it in turn linked to below authoritative sounding article (i'm not an audio/recording engineer or codec designer), questioning 24/192...   

 

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html


Yeah I remember reading these. It was interesting reading skeptics even calling 24/192 in to question.

I love head-fi and it's community, I just wish people would be willing to be a little more skeptical about things.

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post #7610 of 24602
Quote:
Originally Posted by wes008 View Post

Ah dude, you can argue your case all you want, but the majority of people here can hear a difference. As I said in my post I could tell that there was compression on the album even though I thought I ripped it in lossless. Even if something is outside of measured human hearing, it still affects us, even if it's subconsciously. I don't think we'll ever be able to accurately study human hearing, because it's so subjective and variable. It's amazing though.

 

EDIT: Sorry for responding to troll posts. Back on topic! So, how 'bout them Grados? rolleyes.gif

 

Wasn't going to post in this little discussion until I read this.  Actually empirical evidence suggests that most people (with most music) can't hear a difference between properly encoded aac256 / mp3 320 and lossless - if volume matched, from same source and encoded properly.  There are a few who can - but the seem to be in the minority rather than the majority.  Also - even those in the minority really struggle with most music (there are some killer tracks that are easier).

 

I'd really suggest you read this link (http://www.head-fi.org/t/655879/setting-up-an-abx-test-simple-guide-to-ripping-tagging-transcoding- it's a how-to set-up an abx) and test for yourself - if you are really interested.  It could change your mind and at least broaden your understanding of how minute the differences are.

 

There is really no right or wrong with this - you either can notice a difference or you can't.  I can't - and I have no issue with that.  Whenever tests have been put up on Head-fi and abx logs requested - it always gets really vocal - but unsurprisingly not many logs get posted.  The reason is pretty obvious.  It's actually really hard to tell the difference.

 

One final word - assuming CrystalT is a troll is really bad form.  So he has a different opinion - is it necessary to now apply an unjust label?   I personally disagree with him regarding his views on Grados vs the competition.  I think it's a sound you either love or you don't.  Sadly I recently sold my woodied SR325is - and I really miss them already.  I loved the Grado house sound.  But everyone is different.  That IMO is something to be celebrated and makes for some interesting topics of discussion.  It's not something to be derided .....

post #7611 of 24602
Im a she. XD

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post #7612 of 24602
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrystalT View Post

Im a she. XD

Sent from my SPH-L300 using Tapatalk 2

 

 

 

lol

post #7613 of 24602

You hang in there CrystalT. I knew you were a she the whole time. I got your back.

 

There needs to be room for a variety of views without hating. Has anyone noticed how US politics is going these days???!

 

It's OK to be a contrarian. You're views may diverge from the groupthink. They may diverge with mine. I love my 225i's and I can hear a different from sources. But, they are YOUR OPINIONS....I respect that...and being an optimist, my only assumption is that you are coming from a real place.

 

I always root for the underdog. Let Crystal have her views. Like the person at the party who you completely disagree with.....give them a little space. Maybe Crystal likes to stir the pot. I can dig that. It's all  good. Chill people....

 

 

My two cents.

post #7614 of 24602
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooko View Post

 

Wasn't going to post in this little discussion until I read this.  Actually empirical evidence suggests that most people (with most music) can't hear a difference between properly encoded aac256 / mp3 320 and lossless - if volume matched, from same source and encoded properly.  There are a few who can - but the seem to be in the minority rather than the majority.  Also - even those in the minority really struggle with most music (there are some killer tracks that are easier).

 

I'd really suggest you read this link (http://www.head-fi.org/t/655879/setting-up-an-abx-test-simple-guide-to-ripping-tagging-transcoding- it's a how-to set-up an abx) and test for yourself - if you are really interested.  It could change your mind and at least broaden your understanding of how minute the differences are.

 

There is really no right or wrong with this - you either can notice a difference or you can't.  I can't - and I have no issue with that.  Whenever tests have been put up on Head-fi and abx logs requested - it always gets really vocal - but unsurprisingly not many logs get posted.  The reason is pretty obvious.  It's actually really hard to tell the difference.

 

One final word - assuming CrystalT is a troll is really bad form.  So he has a different opinion - is it necessary to now apply an unjust label?   I personally disagree with him regarding his views on Grados vs the competition.  I think it's a sound you either love or you don't.  Sadly I recently sold my woodied SR325is - and I really miss them already.  I loved the Grado house sound.  But everyone is different.  That IMO is something to be celebrated and makes for some interesting topics of discussion.  It's not something to be derided .....

Did you ever notice that this debate goes on and on and on and on.  Multiple topics, multiple threads, multiple forums.  The endless battle of objectivist vs. subjectivist.

 

It seems to me that scientifically, this is a meaningless debate. There is very little verifiable, empirical evidence one way or the other.  And before the science crowd scoffs at that statement, I have to point out that we are dealing with the psychology of perception.   The way our brains interact with sound, from the ability to 'fill in' a missing fundamental and still perceive the note, to the effect that experience has on the auditory cortex and its ability to detect differences in pitch, timbre, and other properties of sound, make it extremely difficult to come to a definitive conclusion to the debate.

 

Training and experience change our ability to discern differences in sound quality between different sampling rates. That is just the way that the auditory cortex operates, being a plastic and 'learning' part of the brain. This may also apply to cables, amps, and DACs.  Although I myself am skeptical about cables.

 

Double-blind tests are, by their very nature, a biased, unnatural and tainted procedure.  The very act of consciously participating in a double-blind alters the perception of the event.  A person deliberately focuses attention on minutia they otherwise would not commit their consciousness to detect.  This alters the perception of the experience, and some would argue invalidates the outcome.

post #7615 of 24602
Quote:
Originally Posted by swspiers View Post

Did you ever notice that this debate goes on and on and on and on.  Multiple topics, multiple threads, multiple forums.  The endless battle of objectivist vs. subjectivist.

 

It seems to me that scientifically, this is a meaningless debate. There is very little verifiable, empirical evidence one way or the other.  And before the science crowd scoffs at that statement, I have to point out that we are dealing with the psychology of perception.   The way our brains interact with sound, from the ability to 'fill in' a missing fundamental and still perceive the note, to the effect that experience has on the auditory cortex and its ability to detect differences in pitch, timbre, and other properties of sound, make it extremely difficult to come to a definitive conclusion to the debate.

 

Training and experience change our ability to discern differences in sound quality between different sampling rates. That is just the way that the auditory cortex operates, being a plastic and 'learning' part of the brain. This may also apply to cables, amps, and DACs.  Although I myself am skeptical about cables.

 

Double-blind tests are, by their very nature, a biased, unnatural and tainted procedure.  The very act of consciously participating in a double-blind alters the perception of the event.  A person deliberately focuses attention on minutia they otherwise would not commit their consciousness to detect.  This alters the perception of the experience, and some would argue invalidates the outcome.

 

All I'm suggesting is that before one 'scoffs' (as so many do) and make the claim that they can tell the difference .... that they test themselves.  I'm also suggesting that the ability to differentiate depends on the individual - but evidence suggests that most people cannot tell the difference between well transcoded high bitrate lossy and lossless (especially aac).  In this case - the comments that wes008 made to CrystalT were uncalled for.

 

But anyway - this thread is a Grado fan club - and this is going OT.

post #7616 of 24602

Hey Brooko,

 

I totally support what you wrote, and I applaud what you wrote about Crystal.

 

Now- back to Grado's.  I finally got to spend some quality time with my 225i's.  The more I get used to their presentation, the more I like them.  After a while, I started to forget I was listening to headphones, and just enjoyed whatever source I had on.  I'm really impressed, and glad I didn't sell them a few months ago.  I just need to finish school so I have more time to listen.  In any case, they did great with everything I threw at them, from DVD-Audio, to lossless files to good ol 'Redbook.  I also listened to a strange binaural recording I have from the Society of Sound of a guy doing some hipster poetry reading. They were truly amazing!

post #7617 of 24602
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooko View Post
Actually empirical evidence suggests that most people (with most music) can't hear a difference between properly encoded aac256 / mp3 320 and lossless

Then why do people keep telling me the DAC is so important in your rig??!! biggrin.gif Certainly you don't need an amazing DAC to max out MP3s. (maybe this is a misconception on my end)  And I apologize for labeling CrystalT. I was trying to avoid it, but I fell right into it. CrystalT, I fully respect your opinion and hope I didn't offend you in any way. 

post #7618 of 24602

Like I said - I left you the link - do the tests .... I'm pretty sure you'll be surprised with the results.  Self enlightenment is always a good thing right?  It won't cost you anything except time.

 

BTW - thanks for the post above - shows maturity.

 

Which Grados do you have Wes?  I sold my 325i (full woody jackets last week) - and am missing them already.  Just sold my Arrow as well - so funnily enough I'm not far off having enough money for a set of RS1is.  Decisions - decisions :)

post #7619 of 24602

Just got my first Grados today.

 

I decided on the SR225i.

 

The guy that sold them to me was absolutely phenomenal. He only had one set of 225is left, and they were his open box set (he mentioned that they were his "Audition" set, and that they only got used every 3 months or so), so I got them for the price of the SR125i.

 

I'm absolutely loving them so far. I bought a set of flat pads while I was there, so comfort is absolutely NOT an issue. All of my music sounds phenomenal now.

post #7620 of 24602
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooko View Post

Like I said - I left you the link - do the tests .... I'm pretty sure you'll be surprised with the results.  Self enlightenment is always a good thing right?  It won't cost you anything except time.

 

BTW - thanks for the post above - shows maturity.

 

Which Grados do you have Wes?  I sold my 325i (full woody jackets last week) - and am missing them already.  Just sold my Arrow as well - so funnily enough I'm not far off having enough money for a set of RS1is.  Decisions - decisions :)

I'm on a Mac, so Foobar isn't an option :( I haven't done any real tests, and have questioned whether it's just that me thinking It's better, but the case I had yesterday of discovering that one of my CDs was ripped with compression is confirmation that I, for one, notice a difference. Is it as drastic as I/others make it out to be? Probably not. I'm interested to hear your opinion on higher bitrates/samplerates. Do you think THOSE make a difference?

 

And I have SR60is. I'm about ready for an upgrade (those aren't the only cans I own, but love the Grado sound so much, I want a higher-end model) and I'm trying to get a guy in the FS forums to sell me his wooded and reterminated SR225is at a price lower than his list price. Guess I shouldn't have mention those here, his price is actually really fair, I just can't afford it right now tongue.gif

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