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Grado Fan Club! - Page 407

post #6091 of 25210

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post


And that's where Grados can fit in. Agreed. I have been toying with the idea of a third pair of RS1s. tongue.gif

this is what I'm talking about. everybody finds his sweet spot in the Grado/Alessandro/Magnum line-up.

but this fact is hard say about other companies.

 

Grado: enjoy the aggressive nature of rough sounds but at the same time listen to MUSIC

Alessandro: calm down a bit BUT keep the musicality on the highest level

Magnum: raise the bass department to keep up with sub90hz territory.

 

And it's not a coincidence that you want 3 of them (RS1i), and thats a huge compliment.

I don't think you can name any other brand were You would buy three (3 !!!) of their same modell.

Grados are magical. It's easy to describe what I mean: THE SOUL OF MUSIC

gs1000.gif


Edited by agoston.berko - 1/11/13 at 8:20pm
post #6092 of 25210
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gradofan2 View Post

<snip>

 

But... it is not especially easy to match Grados to an amp.  I think they get that reputation, because they're fairly efficient, and can be more easily driven... but... not necessarily with the best sound quality.  

I can agree with that - pretty good summation in a couple of statements!

post #6093 of 25210
Quote:
Originally Posted by agoston.berko View Post

this is what I'm talking about. everybody finds his sweet spot in the Grado/Alessandro/Magnum line-up.
but this fact is hard say about other company's.

And it's not a coincidence that you want 3 of them (RS1i), and thats a huge compliment.
I don't think you can name an other brand were You would buy three of their same modell's.
Grados are magical. It's easy to describe what I mean: THE SOUL OF MUSIC

I don't have 3 of them. I've sold 2 off at different times(RS-1 and RS-1i). I have never owned more than 1 pair of Grados at any one time. Grados fill a niche, but are far from TOTL headphones IMO.
Edited by MacedonianHero - 1/11/13 at 8:13pm
post #6094 of 25210

okey but You can't live without the magic. that's why You want it back.

if any other headphone would fill this "niche" you won't be seeking for the third pair.

post #6095 of 25210
Been thinking does not equal going to. wink.gif
post #6096 of 25210
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post


Real bass doesn't roll off at 90Hz. And the Alesandros do have less treble energy, but still way more than what is on the recording. And you have no idea about how much bass I want or think is natural.

 

When you say that Grados have, no ''real'' bass, poor soundstage, piercing highs, i'd like to know if those apply to the all Grados, or specific models and if so, wich ones, because unless i'm mistaking, you seem to like the RS1is.

 

And, when you say that the ''Alessandros do have less treble energy, but still way more than what is on the recording'', when i read this, i'm surprised that my ears aren't bleeding from long listening sessions, also, can you tell me how you know what the recording is supposed to sound like?

post #6097 of 25210

 

...are You sure ?evil_smiley.gif


Edited by agoston.berko - 1/11/13 at 9:34pm
post #6098 of 25210

I've personally tried to give Grados their fair shake in the past but have never really enjoyed them.  Having been around many reference-grade speaker rigs and recording many a live performance (on DAT, minidisc, and even open-reel tape), I certainly understand the characterization of Grado cans as musical.  However, I've never felt they were transparent or true to the recording.  

post #6099 of 25210

Agoston, you need to start your own Grado love thread I reckon.

post #6100 of 25210

tongue.gif will do Currawong, sorry.

 

BTW, nice Symphones Magnums collection. L3000.gif

I'm out.

post #6101 of 25210
Quote:
Originally Posted by agoston.berko View Post

there are far more important factors in sound reproduction before sub-90Hz volumes.

just listen to a piano or listen to a gitar or a violin, after that you will understand what I mean about musicality.

 

 

Except a Grado can't even reproduce my voice properly...

post #6102 of 25210
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomb View Post

 Again, this is why Grados get the reputation that they sound better with tube amps.  It's just that the cause ("tube warmth") is mis-interpreted.

 

I'm not discounting what you're saying, cause quite frankly I don't even speak the language...but how do you account for the fact that I prefer the sound of my Meier Jazz/Grado GS1k when the tube buffer is activated vs when it's only the Meier in the signal path? I think what you're saying may be perfectly valid about the higher output impedance being favorable for the Grado phones, but when you say this accounts for the quality of tubes being misinterpreted I'm not sure I agree. I enjoy headphones and speakers that have a robust top end, to the point where they would even be classified as "bright". But what I don't care for is "harsh"...and over the years I have experienced many examples where the presence of tubes mellowed out the harshness even on poorly recorded material and provided a bit of "warmth". I've also been able to observe different levels of success via tube rolling, which would further indicate that it was a quality specific to the tube that was responsible for the "warmth", not only the output impedance of the amplifier. 

post #6103 of 25210

@Agoston.berko

 

I just read through all that you said and I do apologize that I won't be responding to each and every point you make.  I think Grado makes fantastic headphones.  And I do agree that Joe Grado pioneered some excellent headphones.

 

My rankings are my own based on my personal experiences with acoustic sound AND my own personal enjoyment.  In the sense that there is almost 60 headphones (80% of which are flagship models) it is no small feat (IMO) for Grado to have a headphone in the top 11.  

 

But again, it is what it is, and I appreciate the enthusiasm you have for Grado headphones!  I am a new yorker after all:)

post #6104 of 25210
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomb View Post

I disagree.  Grados are singularly well-damped.  (See some of purrin's graphs and reports on Grado decay.)  Connecting them to the current-FOTM super-low-output-impedance amplifers causes them to over-damp, resulting in the harshness and tizziness that many people cite for their dislike of Grados.  The reason Grados do well with many tube amps is not necessarily the "warmth of tubes," but that the output impedance is quite a bit higher than your run-of-the-mill low-output-impedance SS amp.  Grados do quite well on 15 ohm output impedance and higher.

This gets complicated to a certain extent because the low impedance of Grados causes fall-off with OTL amps as lowering the bass cut-off point results in extremely large and super-expensive output capacitors (which means shortcuts/cheaper alternatives are often used). Hybrids experience this fault, too, because many of their output buffers still require blocking caps and unless sized large enough, cause bass roll-off or phase distortion in low frequency response.

Bottom line, for the best sound with Grados - finding the right amplification is not necessarily so simple. 

I would entirely disagree with you on the basis that electrical damping is essentially a fantasy (go ahead and tell me I'm wrong, and then go ahead and tell JBL, McIntosh, BK Butler, Rod Elliot, QSC, Accuphase, and so on that they're all wrong too). Damping is primarily (like 99%) a mechanical feature, and Grados rely on nothing but the driver itself (more or less) for this (and their drivers are good; I'll give you that); if you actually reviewed the CSDs you're blindly referencing (and you can actually go beyond purrin's measurements, and go look at CSDs from He&Bi and GE too), most of them (being Grado models) exhibit ringing in the upper treble (and FR and IR will also show this) - and believe it or not, some people just don't like bright cans that have resonance artefacts. And that ringing isn't really hard to predict based on the enclosure design. If you want to look at a "singularly well damped" example of a headphone, the Koss Pro4/A and 4/AA are good candidates. Most 'stats will also put up a very clean CSD too (because the drivers are extremely well controlled). They sound very different from Grados. And no, I'm not saying ringing is a bad thing by any means here (even purrin makes the comment that the RS-1 "look worse than they sound" on measurements). It's part of their coloration and their flair - and it doesn't suit everyone.

Their impedance is very stable, so changes in Zout won't result in any significant FR changes unless you increase Zout substantially (which will act on the bass region where the impedance peak is; here's a great article on the topic: http://en.goldenears.net/index.php?mid=KB_Columns&document_srl=1389) - what's really quite disturbing about your argument is in one hand you're taking the modern marketing line of DF as pushed by makers like Crown and Anthem (who are both miserable shills with a history of saying or doing anything just to close a sale), but you're then using that fallacy to argue against itself (and saying that DF is "bad'). Sure, high Zout *can* be a good thing depending on overall system Q (which is an unknown here), but we'd be talking about LF response based on the impedance of the Grado drivers (it would be most pronounced with the GSK and PSK). Basically you'd be talking about a slight bump to the LF as Zout went up; I can tell you from experience that going between 2 and 500R doesn't do much of anything, even with the GSK. As far as what happens if you over-damp (which you're not gonna do without physical modification) - it should not ever produce a "harsh" or "tizzy" sound (because that would be a result of ringing, which critical damping will prevent...) - it'll just be over-damped. And at that point they'll just sound dead and lifeless. So in summary, *IF* DF were worth phoning home about, it would actually REDUCE the harsh/tizzy sound (by better controlling the driver's movement), and decreasing it would decrease damping (which would increase ringing and tizziness (like I said, your argument is logically troubling)) - now of course in the real world that doesn't hold up, because DF isn't worth phoning home about, and all you'll get as you run Zout up is a slight bass boost (which I could see people interpreting as a slight warmth, but we're talking very slight). If you wanted to make them ring worse, you could EQ up the treble or get really nasty and setup a filter to target and excite the points at which the enclosures already want to ring (you'd have to measure them before you could build this) and they'd sound absolutely disgusting at the end of it (why anyone would want to do this to any headphone or speaker I have no idea, but it is theoretically possible). Now, if all you're getting at is "more bass compensates for their brightness" (either because it's changing phase response, or by masking, or a combination of both) - that's fine. But we have tone controls for a reason.

They're sensitive, stable, and low impedance - they don't want for much in terms of power, and you can get the same party from more or less anything that'll give up the power they do want in a clean way. Clean and quiet is king, only because I think a lot of people will have an issue listening to hiss or pot rustling inherent on a lot of the shoddier amplifiers out there. But as gradofan pointed out - good current supply, clean tracking, and you're pretty much set. If you prefer the coloration of tubes or equalization, or whatever else - that's a personal choice, and should be left up to the end-user to explore. I think I need to qualify that my statements are being taken massively out of context though (is it because they're hurting someone's bottom line I wonder?) - my comments were specifically directed at preproman's question, and based on the knowledge that he has a (very dapper looking) pair of D7000s that I'm assuming he has suitable amplification for. Whatever is driving those will have no issue driving any Grado. If someone wants to experiment with various tubed or non-tubed products on their own, that's their choice - and I provided a list of the four manufacturers I see most commonly suggested when people for ask a good amplifier for their Grados (which usually come from a more subjective "amps are all different" crowd and do include a combination of tubed and untubed devices) - as a starting off point. Of course there are many different amplifiers out there, and people will find enjoyment in a variety of products that may not be considered "right" by the mainstream - and that's also perfectly fine (but I still think having a starting point is helpful versus "go forth and frolic" redface.gif). But I'm going to take an issue when you try to force everyone's experiences into some "grand theory of the Universe" to either explain your own experiences, or sell product.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joseph69 View Post

Can anybody give me some input on how a Bellari HA540 will match with the Grado SR325is? Thank you.

Someone (I forget who now...) was posting about their HA540 like two days ago - just dig back a few pages. I think he said it worked out pretty well. smily_headphones1.gif
post #6105 of 25210

LL

...thought it's Borat selling pizzas

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