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Grado Fan Club! - Page 400

post #5986 of 25010
Quote:
Originally Posted by obobskivich View Post


Relatively little - like all headphones.

 

I'm a bit confuse, because usually low impedence usually means a high current demand, and some peoples insist that Grados are best served by an amp capable of high current output, anyway, all i know is that my Grados sound great no matter if they're hooked up to my Musical Fidelity X-CAN V2 hybrid tube amp, or straight from one of my vintage Marantz recievers.

 

I don't mean to bore anyone, but i feel like sharing, so here it goes, yesterday i was listening to Leonard  Cohen's 'Songs from the road' album, with my Marantz 2220B, and the source was my old Pioneer RT-1020L reel to reel tape recorder, and the sound was just awesome, talk about getting 'lost' in the music, Marantz are know for their warm sound signature, and somehow they just brings out the best of my PS1000s.

post #5987 of 25010
Quote:
Originally Posted by stacker45 View Post

I'm a bit confuse, because usually low impedence usually means a high current demand, and some peoples insist that Grados are best served by an amp capable of high current output, anyway, all i know is that my Grados sound great no matter if they're hooked up to my Musical Fidelity X-CAN V2 hybrid tube amp, or straight from one of my vintage Marantz recievers.

It was an unbound question and got an unbound answer - "high current" relative to what? The current my electric dryer needs? The current my car's starter needs? The current the overhead lines carry? etc

Ohm's Law dictates that low Z means high I and low V, and high Z means low I and high V. So proportionally speaking, Grados want "more" current than a similar, but higher Z, can. But as Ohm's Law also tells us, we can't just arbitrarily have "a lot" (or as Master Shake specifically told the organ bank - a "buttload") of current. And when you factor sensitivity into this, which tells us that Grados have a generally low power requirement (I think the GS-1000 is the least sensitive and needs something like 1.0mW/ch for 90 dB SPL; most of the other Grados are well below that line, and want some fraction of a mW (I forget if the SR-325 or PS-500 is the most sensitive, but the most sensitive one only demands something like .05 mW for the same output)), so the overall power is low (V*I), Z is fixed (32R), and voltage is decided by the output amplifier. I is generally a low value as a result, especially compared to less sensitive low Z cans (take the HE-6 as an example).

I always find the "you need lots of current" or "they're super current hungry" claims to be extremely arbitrary and cryptic, but most people don't seem to be interested in the "why" so I figured I'd give an equally cryptic and arbitrary answer. wink_face.gif
Quote:
I don't mean to bore anyone, but i feel like sharing, so here it goes, yesterday i was listening to Leonard  Cohen's 'Songs from the road' album, with my Marantz 2220B, and the source was my old Pioneer RT-1020L reel to reel tape recorder, and the sound was just awesome, talk about getting 'lost' in the music, Marantz are know for their warm sound signature, and somehow they just brings out the best of my PS1000s.

I've always been curious about RTR, having seen them as a kid. Certainly don't find this boring at all. smily_headphones1.gif
Edited by obobskivich - 1/4/13 at 4:45pm
post #5988 of 25010
You are correct that generally high impedance cans like high voltage and low impedance cans prefer high current. Grados are even easier to drive then other low impedance cans e.g. AKG701/2 and therefore perform well with most amps. The only amps Grados don't like are OTL tube amps, but even those can sound ok. Unlike some around here I much prefer my Grados amped, by anything. I just don't like to listen directly from my iPod/iPad.
post #5989 of 25010

would be audioquest dragonfly enough (i mean current) to drive my MS Pro's ?

DF Maximum headphone driver output power is  125mW @ 32 ohms

 

i just want something small and cheap

post #5990 of 25010
Yes, 125 mW @ 32R is enough to take your face off with any Grado ever made. smily_headphones1.gif
post #5991 of 25010
Yes, of course. IMO the key with Grados is not the output power but output impedance of the amp, which should be as low as possible! Being so efficient any amp can drive Grados. Their efficiency also compensates for a mismatch in output impedance.
post #5992 of 25010

if we are talking about grado/alessandro 32OHM headphone amplification, we only want to achieve decent volume levels and nothing else matters in this situation ?

i mean are there any aspects which would change the SQ with-or-without amping only dB's ?

post #5993 of 25010
Quote:
Originally Posted by parbaked View Post

You are correct that generally high impedance cans like high voltage and low impedance cans prefer high current. Grados are even easier to drive then other low impedance cans e.g. AKG701/2 and therefore perform well with most amps. The only amps Grados don't like are OTL tube amps, but even those can sound ok. Unlike some around here I much prefer my Grados amped, by anything. I just don't like to listen directly from my iPod/iPad.

On the Ming Da MC 84 C07 my 325is hummed.  They have since added a MKII which, presumably, doesn't hum with low impedance cans.

post #5994 of 25010

Thanks obobskivich for the explanation, you obviously know a lot more about this than i do.

 

About reel to reel tape machines, i admit that i bought mine mainly because i think they look cool, and also because, don't laugh!, in the movie 'Pulp Fiction' they're is a scene where Uma Thurman dances to 'Girl you'll be a woman soon' by 'Hurge Overkill' to the sound of an RTR, and ever since, i've had it in the back of my mind to get one someday.

 

A good well calibrated machine with quality tape, recorded at 7 1/2ips,  can sound very good, in fact, i actually prefer the sound of some of my tape copies to that of the original CDs, i find that the tape takes the edge off some of the more aggressive (for lack of a better word) sounding CDs.   

post #5995 of 25010

Would it be worth buying a used asgard or something similar in price range or should I stick to plugging my RS1i into my Yamaha rx471? Been in this conundrum since I bought the Yamaha for my speakers. 

post #5996 of 25010
You Yamaha should sound pretty good with Grados
post #5997 of 25010
Quote:
Originally Posted by parbaked View Post

Yes, of course. IMO the key with Grados is not the output power but output impedance of the amp, which should be as low as possible! Being so efficient any amp can drive Grados. Their efficiency also compensates for a mismatch in output impedance.

Their impedance is relatively stable, so changes in Zout won't really influence the FR in non-linear ways. If Zout is much higher you might get some noise though, depending on if it's high because of internal design or series R at the tap. The whole mythos about "Zout has to be super low" is a recent marketing ploy that's been shilled out on the community to help boost a certain ex-poster's ego. Really unfortunate that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by agoston.berko View Post

if we are talking about grado/alessandro 32OHM headphone amplification, we only want to achieve decent volume levels and nothing else matters in this situation ?
i mean are there any aspects which would change the SQ with-or-without amping only dB's ?

As long as the amplifier is relatively low noise, has good channel tracking, doesn't have a screwed up FR of its own, and isn't an impedance mismatch for them (generally this will be an OTL), it should be fine. smily_headphones1.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbophead View Post

On the Ming Da MC 84 C07 my 325is hummed.  They have since added a MKII which, presumably, doesn't hum with low impedance cans.

Isn't surprising that an OTL results in some humming or buzzing - I've heard of similar phenomena with Audio-Technicas and various OTL designs over the years. That's basically one of the only "problems" with a design like Grado has - they won't play nice with amplifiers like that. But amplifiers like that are usually pretty easy to avoid if you know what you're looking for (it's not like everything in 2013 is OTL high Z - in fact, you generally have to go looking for such an amplifier to find it).

Quote:
Originally Posted by stacker45 View Post

About reel to reel tape machines, i admit that i bought mine mainly because i think they look cool, and also because, don't laugh!, in the movie 'Pulp Fiction' they're is a scene where Uma Thurman dances to 'Girl you'll be a woman soon' by 'Hurge Overkill' to the sound of an RTR, and ever since, i've had it in the back of my mind to get one someday.

A good well calibrated machine with quality tape, recorded at 7 1/2ips,  can sound very good, in fact, i actually prefer the sound of some of my tape copies to that of the original CDs, i find that the tape takes the edge off some of the more aggressive (for lack of a better word) sounding CDs.   

Awesome movie! Great visual there. So with the RTR setup you have, you're basically feeding the CD player into the RTR, recording a copy of the material, and then playing it back from tape? So you aren't having to fuss to find a recording of whatever material on tape? Sounds fairly straight-forward honestly - if only finding an RTR machine was straight-forward. redface.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Posam View Post

Would it be worth buying a used asgard or something similar in price range or should I stick to plugging my RS1i into my Yamaha rx471? Been in this conundrum since I bought the Yamaha for my speakers. 

The receiver is probably just fine, assuming you have no humming/buzzing like bbophead mentioned, it's basically doing exactly what you need. If that Yamaha has SilentCinema, that's a big leg-up if you watch movies with your headphones. As far as a stand-alone amplifier, you likely won't realize a lot of improvement. I'd still be using my old Yamaha stereo receiver for my cans if it fit my current setup - great components! smily_headphones1.gif
post #5998 of 25010

which amp has the blackest background out there for grados? (low noise)

post #5999 of 25010
Quote:
Originally Posted by agoston.berko View Post

which amp has the blackest background out there for grados? (low noise)

Budget? Nwavguy's O2 is a good deal

post #6000 of 25010
Quote:
Originally Posted by parbaked View Post

You are correct that generally high impedance cans like high voltage and low impedance cans prefer high current. Grados are even easier to drive then other low impedance cans e.g. AKG701/2 and therefore perform well with most amps. The only amps Grados don't like are OTL tube amps, but even those can sound ok. Unlike some around here I much prefer my Grados amped, by anything. I just don't like to listen directly from my iPod/iPad.

 

No offense, but I really have to take issue with the statement "Grados don't like OTL tube amps" which I have seen many times in these forums. I have the PS 500 and the RS1i and I enjoy listening to them with several solid state amps (iBasso D7 & modded D12, NuForce, Fiio,etc.) and a Rolls Bellari HA 540 tube amp. The Bellari amp is a USA-made OTL design which uses a single 12AX7 tube and has both high and low inputs - and this amp is by far my favorite with the Grados! I'm talking black background, ultra detailed and a helping of that fabled "tube warmth". I paid $250 for the Bellari and use a variety of NOS tubes, my current fave is a MAZDA triple mica 5751. There are no doubt some OTL designs that are not optimal for Grados, but I believe the Bellari HA540 is one of the best amps for them, and I don't mean to say it just is "OK". One of the things I love about the Grados is their versatility with sources and amps and how good they sound amped or unamped - even straight out of a Kindle Fire! The Bellari takes them to a whole new level though, and it is an OTL design.

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