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Grado Fan Club! - Page 367

post #5491 of 16829
Quote:
Originally Posted by Focker View Post

I agree with the notion that the GS1ks are more of a "different" Grado sound than a flagship type sound. I will admit that they have grown on me and I actually am enjoying them quite a bit, but I still give the edge to the 500s. I love that you were firing up some vinyl, Stacker....I've been in the research phase of an analog system since I've never had one...it's really been an education. I'm hoping to add a vinyl source here in the coming months, and a big part of the reason why is because Grado's cartridges are arguably better than even their headphones....so I'd love to have another excuse to send them some money. I'm not all that close to pulling the trigger yet, but I enjoy reading about those who are pairing vinyl and headphones....especially Grados :)

 

Be carefull Focker!,that vinyl thing can be very addictive,a good vinyl on a properly ajusted TT can be a jaw dropping experience through headphones,case in point,the first time i dropped the needle on Eric Clapton's Unplugged LP,on my Technics SL-1200 MK2/Ortofon 2MBlack,i have the CD and the DVD of that concert and the vinyl tramples them both,it has a wider and deeper soundstage,an almost pitch black background and this 'organic' sound that only vinyl can give you.

 

Fortunately it doesn't have to be expensive,especially if like me,you decide to go the vintage route.Aside from my Technics wich i bought new,i have bought three mint vintage turntables for less than $700,yes,that means i have four,see how addictive it can be?.I have a Yamaha YP-D6/Audio- Technica At95e and two Marantzs a 6300/AT-95e and a 6350Q/Ortofon 2MBlue.

 

As you can see i don't have Grado cartriges,it's not because i don't like them,to tell you the truth,i've never heard one,it's simply because when i first got interrested in vinyl,the salesman suggested i'd go with Ortofon.I then discovered the $50 Audio-Technica AT95e,wich is regarded by many as one of the best buys among cartriges and with good reasons,this thing sounds wonderfull.

 

Sorry for rambling on like that,but it could have been worse i could've bored you with my passion for Reel to Reel tape recorders,don't get me startedwink.gif

post #5492 of 16829
Quote:
Originally Posted by stacker45 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Focker View Post

I agree with the notion that the GS1ks are more of a "different" Grado sound than a flagship type sound. I will admit that they have grown on me and I actually am enjoying them quite a bit, but I still give the edge to the 500s. I love that you were firing up some vinyl, Stacker....I've been in the research phase of an analog system since I've never had one...it's really been an education. I'm hoping to add a vinyl source here in the coming months, and a big part of the reason why is because Grado's cartridges are arguably better than even their headphones....so I'd love to have another excuse to send them some money. I'm not all that close to pulling the trigger yet, but I enjoy reading about those who are pairing vinyl and headphones....especially Grados :)

 

Be carefull Focker!,that vinyl thing can be very addictive,a good vinyl on a properly ajusted TT can be a jaw dropping experience through headphones,case in point,the first time i dropped the needle on Eric Clapton's Unplugged LP,on my Technics SL-1200 MK2/Ortofon 2MBlack,i have the CD and the DVD of that concert and the vinyl tramples them both,it has a wider and deeper soundstage,an almost pitch black background and this 'organic' sound that only vinyl can give you.

 

Fortunately it doesn't have to be expensive,especially if like me,you decide to go the vintage route.Aside from my Technics wich i bought new,i have bought three mint vintage turntables for less than $700,yes,that means i have four,see how addictive it can be?.I have a Yamaha YP-D6/Audio- Technica At95e and two Marantzs a 6300/AT-95e and a 6350Q/Ortofon 2MBlue.

 

As you can see i don't have Grado cartriges,it's not because i don't like them,to tell you the truth,i've never heard one,it's simply because when i first got interrested in vinyl,the salesman suggested i'd go with Ortofon.I then discovered the $50 Audio-Technica AT95e,wich is regarded by many as one of the best buys among cartriges and with good reasons,this thing sounds wonderfull.

 

Sorry for rambling on like that,but it could have been worse i could've bored you with my passion for Reel to Reel tape recorders,don't get me startedwink.gif


I would LOVE to hear that 2M Black, they're supposed to be amazing.

I have a Thorens TD-160 Super with the SME arm and a Denon DL-160 cart, I'm planning on sending it to soundsmith to be retipped before too long. For me, it was Tommy that sealed it for me. I used to listen to that all the time on CD, I dropped the needle on that, and was in love. Also, my copy of Melon Collie by the pumpkins, blows me away, not even comparable to the CD. Most classic rock was mixed and mastered for the LP, and then redone for the CDs. LPs can handle so much less range compression and everything else, that the sound is so much more natural. I am off at school now, so I listen exclusively to digital stuff, but you can be sure one of my favorite things to do when I get home each time is to drop the needle, sit in the sweet spot, and just rock out.


Edited by scootsit - 11/8/12 at 9:37pm
post #5493 of 16829
Quote:
Originally Posted by obobskivich View Post

From:
To:
I've highlighted the places I made changes in color (I don't know what the default is, lol, we'll find out when I hit post!).
EDIT:
And the color would be pink! eek.gif

 

Ok, now i get it, thanks, it's greatly appreciated

post #5494 of 16829
Quote:
Originally Posted by scootsit View Post

LPs can handle so much less range compression and everything else, that the sound is so much more natural.

I don't understand this. This is an honest question, not bait for a war. redface.gif

You're also making me want to figure out how to fit my table in somewhere. And buy new LPs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stacker45 View Post

Ok, now i get it, thanks, it's greatly appreciated

beerchug.gif
post #5495 of 16829
Quote:
Originally Posted by scootsit View Post


I would LOVE to hear that 2M Black, they're supposed to be amazing.

I have a Thorens TD-160 Super with the SME arm and a Denon DL-160 cart, I'm planning on sending it to soundsmith to be retipped before too long. For me, it was Tommy that sealed it for me. I used to listen to that all the time on CD, I dropped the needle on that, and was in love. Also, my copy of Melon Collie by the pumpkins, blows me away, not even comparable to the CD. Most classic rock was mixed and mastered for the LP, and then redone for the CDs. LPs can handle so much less range compression and everything else, that the sound is so much more natural. I am off at school now, so I listen exclusively to digital stuff, but you can be sure one of my favorite things to do when I get home each time is to drop the needle, sit in the sweet spot, and just rock out.

 

The 2M Black is an amazing cartridge, the Shibata stylus plays a big role in it's great sound, it's very detailed wich means it can also be ruthless with bad vinyls.It definately doesn't make chicken soup out of chicken poop.

 

By the way, you might not be an expert, but i believe that the advices you gave Fockers are right on the money.

post #5496 of 16829
Quote:
Originally Posted by obobskivich View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by scootsit View Post

LPs can handle so much less range compression and everything else, that the sound is so much more natural.

I don't understand this. This is an honest question, not bait for a war. redface.gif

You're also making me want to figure out how to fit my table in somewhere. And buy new LPs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stacker45 View Post

Ok, now i get it, thanks, it's greatly appreciated

beerchug.gif


Basically, there is a new trend in music, they compress the digital range (make everything the same volume, and louder). That is to say, minimizing the headroom, dynamically, such that every part of the recording is at the full volume. Basically, the greatest volume a digital recording can take is 0dB, a CD will begin to skip around -6dB, and a record will skip at -9dB. Essentially, anything recorded has to be mixed especially to be pressed into vinyl. The result is that the new trend in recording, of just making things loud (there is research that shows that louder music gets more iTunes downloads) cannot be applied to a record. There are many instances where, for no reason other than the mixing and mastering, the digital and CD versions have sounded not-so-good, and the records sounded great. Each time a recording is remixed or "remastered" the record companies tend to push for more dynamic range compression, get an early pressing of your favorite record, and then get a recent digital version, or a CD, the difference in subtlety will be be unbelievable. The early pressing will have nuance, some instruments will be quiet, others will be soft, and everything will sound more natural. The same is even true for contemporary records and their digital counterparts. Also, digitally compressed (as I understand, again, I'm no expert) files tend to be easier to compress, making it even more appealing for record companies.

 

Simply put, the record was the very last physical recording medium, everything since has been digital, and there is nuance to that physical recording. That isn't to say records don't have draw-backs: they need to be kept insanely clean, they can warp, they can bend, and they can accumulate static which can make popping noises. The devices for playing them require upkeep and adjustment. Us vinyl-philes put up with all that for a reason, it's worth it.

 

Aside from the dynamic range and digital processing, there are other reasons to love a record, and they do, honest to goodness sound better. I think to some degree, the instantly detectable difference between digital and analog audio may come from the fact that there is technically some inherent crossfeeding on the record, don't quote me on that, but it's a guess. My advice to you would be to go listen to some records on a really nice system, perhaps at a friend's house, and bring an iPod, and listen to the two songs side by side, you will instantly notice the difference

 

Here's more about range compression. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_range_compression

 

I love this image, take a look, it is the remasterings of Something by the Beatles, you can see how the recording changed with each subsequent iteration: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cd_loudness_trend-something.gif

post #5497 of 16829
Quote:
Originally Posted by stacker45 View Post

 

Be carefull Focker!,that vinyl thing can be very addictive,a good vinyl on a properly ajusted TT can be a jaw dropping experience through headphones,case in point,the first time i dropped the needle on Eric Clapton's Unplugged LP,on my Technics SL-1200 MK2/Ortofon 2MBlack,i have the CD and the DVD of that concert and the vinyl tramples them both,it has a wider and deeper soundstage,an almost pitch black background and this 'organic' sound that only vinyl can give you.

 

Fortunately it doesn't have to be expensive,especially if like me,you decide to go the vintage route.Aside from my Technics wich i bought new,i have bought three mint vintage turntables for less than $700,yes,that means i have four,see how addictive it can be?.I have a Yamaha YP-D6/Audio- Technica At95e and two Marantzs a 6300/AT-95e and a 6350Q/Ortofon 2MBlue.

 

As you can see i don't have Grado cartriges,it's not because i don't like them,to tell you the truth,i've never heard one,it's simply because when i first got interrested in vinyl,the salesman suggested i'd go with Ortofon.I then discovered the $50 Audio-Technica AT95e,wich is regarded by many as one of the best buys among cartriges and with good reasons,this thing sounds wonderfull.

 

Sorry for rambling on like that,but it could have been worse i could've bored you with my passion for Reel to Reel tape recorders,don't get me startedwink.gif

 

Dang Stacker, if I ever get over to France, I need to come visit....you have some DAMN nice gear! lol  And I agree, the only vinyl rigs I've heard were both really expensive and really nice. The sound was just amazing....this last time, at my local Grado dealer, you could easily discern the differences between the vinyl sound and the digital sound. Digital still sounded great, but wow, the analog tracks were really something. I keep hearing about those Ortofon carts, too. The table that has been recommended to me most often for $500 is the Pro-ject DEbut Carbon....it comes with the 2mRed cart, I believe. Supposed to be a very nice entry level table. Several people have suggested I "do it right, or don't do it" though, so I'm also looking at the better Rega tables and the VPI Traveler. I'll be in research mode for while yet, but I'm trying to learn as much as I can. I can't wait to hear the Grados with vinyl....that's going to be amazing! 

post #5498 of 16829
Quote:
Originally Posted by stacker45 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by scootsit View Post


I would LOVE to hear that 2M Black, they're supposed to be amazing.

I have a Thorens TD-160 Super with the SME arm and a Denon DL-160 cart, I'm planning on sending it to soundsmith to be retipped before too long. For me, it was Tommy that sealed it for me. I used to listen to that all the time on CD, I dropped the needle on that, and was in love. Also, my copy of Melon Collie by the pumpkins, blows me away, not even comparable to the CD. Most classic rock was mixed and mastered for the LP, and then redone for the CDs. LPs can handle so much less range compression and everything else, that the sound is so much more natural. I am off at school now, so I listen exclusively to digital stuff, but you can be sure one of my favorite things to do when I get home each time is to drop the needle, sit in the sweet spot, and just rock out.

 

The 2M Black is an amazing cartridge, the Shibata stylus plays a big role in it's great sound, it's very detailed wich means it can also be ruthless with bad vinyls.It definately doesn't make chicken soup out of chicken poop.

 

By the way, you might not be an expert, but i believe that the advices you gave Fockers are right on the money.


I used the old series (was it O5-50, something like that), and for the money, they were great, but really, they were dated and didn't extend much above. I love that about Ortofon, that so many of their carts use the same stylus. So, you can start with the bottom of the line, and slowly as your interest and budget increase, work your way up to better and better styli, totally transforming it. Yours is the top of the line, and out of my price range, but the red and blue were hard to pass up. I love the Denon that I have, and am very excited to send it to soundsmith, but if I were building a new system, I'd probably go for that bottom of the line Dynavector (which is an INCREDIBLE value) or one of the 2Ms. I was interested in the Sumikos for a while, but they are such divisive carts, that I just wasn't sure if I'd like it.

 

I said before theneedledoctor.com, that was incorrect. It should read needledoctor.com. I'll edit my original post.


Edited by scootsit - 11/8/12 at 10:04pm
post #5499 of 16829

New RS1i owner checking in smily_headphones1.gif

 

 

 

post #5500 of 16829

Welcome, Albert!!! Nice cans!!! :)

 

By the way, this vinyl discussion we have going among Grado lovers is awesome!! I'm really enjoying the hell out of it. 

post #5501 of 16829
Quote:
Originally Posted by Focker View Post

By the way, this vinyl discussion we have going among Grado lovers is awesome!! I'm really enjoying the hell out of it. 


Indeed, but I have a confession to make. I've never actually heard my records through my Magnums. I heard them through my 325s, and it was pretty stellar, but I can only imagine with my Magnums. Really, I got into headphones when I moved away from my full size system (recapped Sansui 5000X), which has some awesome speakers (Genesis 110s and some very early 60s Wharfedales - listening to early British rock on 60s British speakers, is awesome), so that's what I listen to most of it on. I do love my Grados and Magnums, but I don't know that I quite fit that bill, as my records aren't frequently enjoyed with the Grados. I couldn't afford a system like that in college, so I decided to go for some good cans, and I gotta say, Grados sound great. They may not be ruler flat or whatever, and I understand why people (Tyll for example) take issue with them. Having rebuilt a ton of turntables, amps, and speakers, I ended up with a vintage system. Grados sound very vintage to me, they remind me of my old system. Sure, there are newer speakers out there that are ruler flat and cost $10,000 and all that, but those that I've heard lack the character of some of the earlier stuff.

post #5502 of 16829
Quote:
Originally Posted by scootsit View Post


Basically, there is a new trend in music, they compress the digital range (make everything the same volume, and louder). That is to say, minimizing the headroom, dynamically, such that every part of the recording is at the full volume. Basically, the greatest volume a digital recording can take is 0dB, a CD will begin to skip around -6dB, and a record will skip at -9dB. Essentially, anything recorded has to be mixed especially to be pressed into vinyl. The result is that the new trend in recording, of just making things loud (there is research that shows that louder music gets more iTunes downloads) cannot be applied to a record. There are many instances where, for no reason other than the mixing and mastering, the digital and CD versions have sounded not-so-good, and the records sounded great. Each time a recording is remixed or "remastered" the record companies tend to push for more dynamic range compression, get an early pressing of your favorite record, and then get a recent digital version, or a CD, the difference in subtlety will be be unbelievable. The early pressing will have nuance, some instruments will be quiet, others will be soft, and everything will sound more natural. The same is even true for contemporary records and their digital counterparts. Also, digitally compressed (as I understand, again, I'm no expert) files tend to be easier to compress, making it even more appealing for record companies.

Simply put, the record was the very last physical recording medium, everything since has been digital, and there is nuance to that physical recording. That isn't to say records don't have draw-backs: they need to be kept insanely clean, they can warp, they can bend, and they can accumulate static which can make popping noises. The devices for playing them require upkeep and adjustment. Us vinyl-philes put up with all that for a reason, it's worth it.

Aside from the dynamic range and digital processing, there are other reasons to love a record, and they do, honest to goodness sound better. I think to some degree, the instantly detectable difference between digital and analog audio may come from the fact that there is technically some inherent crossfeeding on the record, don't quote me on that, but it's a guess. My advice to you would be to go listen to some records on a really nice system, perhaps at a friend's house, and bring an iPod, and listen to the two songs side by side, you will instantly notice the difference

Here's more about range compression. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_range_compression

I love this image, take a look, it is the remasterings of Something by the Beatles, you can see how the recording changed with each subsequent iteration: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cd_loudness_trend-something.gif

Yes, I'm familiar with DRC - just wasn't sure what you were saying. tongue.gif Regarding maximization and a loss of DNR - I've seen it as bad as <1 dB values. Which is disgusting. I've measured between 50 dB and 1 dB on various CDs. It should be noted that music lacking any real range in the master (like the gif you linked) won't benefit from having 40 dB sitting on top of the signal. It just requires more gain to be applied to hit realistic listening levels for the user, which likely will drag noise along with it. I've got some old classical recordings that will eat up 30-40 dB of range though, and god help the poor sap who cranks the volume up to get the intro "loud" - very_evil_smiley.gif There's also genre specific definitions of "dynamic" - huge values on the board aren't always best. But yes, I understand you now. smily_headphones1.gif

I've heard this argument before too, and think it has two sides. Remember that the loudness war STARTED on vinyl and with rock'n'roll back in the day:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_wars

The lack of channel separation and (ideally) increased DNR would lead to perceptible differences, yes, and I've observed this as well with vinyl vs digital (you can also demo this with DVD or Blu-ray audio generally, as reference standards for cinema sound generally includes 20 dB of DNR). Personally I'm a believer in extreme channel separation/isolation, and letting it "mix" at playback (it's not like your speakers are on separate continents), but with headphones that requires extra goodies.

Still want to unbox a table and hook it up - if only I had the room!

Question for you, or stacker, or anyone else who does modern vinyl: how do you feel about modern electronica/house releases? Like Daft Punk or any of the MoS stuff?
Quote:
Originally Posted by scootsit View Post

Sure, there are newer speakers out there that are ruler flat and cost $10,000 and all that, but those that I've heard lack the character of some of the earlier stuff.

You can get ruler-flat for less than $10,000. And they still sound lifeless by and large. tongue.gif

I agree with you on the sound-sig thing - Grados certainly have that "oldschool, high-end" sound going on. But without getting shrieky or clashy like a lot of old speakers can (there's *a lot* of crap back there in history that I think we're all glad to forget).
Edited by obobskivich - 11/8/12 at 10:31pm
post #5503 of 16829
Quote:
Originally Posted by obobskivich View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by scootsit View Post


Basically, there is a new trend in music, they compress the digital range (make everything the same volume, and louder). That is to say, minimizing the headroom, dynamically, such that every part of the recording is at the full volume. Basically, the greatest volume a digital recording can take is 0dB, a CD will begin to skip around -6dB, and a record will skip at -9dB. Essentially, anything recorded has to be mixed especially to be pressed into vinyl. The result is that the new trend in recording, of just making things loud (there is research that shows that louder music gets more iTunes downloads) cannot be applied to a record. There are many instances where, for no reason other than the mixing and mastering, the digital and CD versions have sounded not-so-good, and the records sounded great. Each time a recording is remixed or "remastered" the record companies tend to push for more dynamic range compression, get an early pressing of your favorite record, and then get a recent digital version, or a CD, the difference in subtlety will be be unbelievable. The early pressing will have nuance, some instruments will be quiet, others will be soft, and everything will sound more natural. The same is even true for contemporary records and their digital counterparts. Also, digitally compressed (as I understand, again, I'm no expert) files tend to be easier to compress, making it even more appealing for record companies.

Simply put, the record was the very last physical recording medium, everything since has been digital, and there is nuance to that physical recording. That isn't to say records don't have draw-backs: they need to be kept insanely clean, they can warp, they can bend, and they can accumulate static which can make popping noises. The devices for playing them require upkeep and adjustment. Us vinyl-philes put up with all that for a reason, it's worth it.

Aside from the dynamic range and digital processing, there are other reasons to love a record, and they do, honest to goodness sound better. I think to some degree, the instantly detectable difference between digital and analog audio may come from the fact that there is technically some inherent crossfeeding on the record, don't quote me on that, but it's a guess. My advice to you would be to go listen to some records on a really nice system, perhaps at a friend's house, and bring an iPod, and listen to the two songs side by side, you will instantly notice the difference

Here's more about range compression. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_range_compression

I love this image, take a look, it is the remasterings of Something by the Beatles, you can see how the recording changed with each subsequent iteration: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cd_loudness_trend-something.gif

Yes, I'm familiar with DRC - just wasn't sure what you were saying. tongue.gif Regarding maximization and a loss of DNR - I've seen it as bad as <1 dB values. Which is disgusting. I've measured between 50 dB and 1 dB on various CDs. It should be noted that music lacking any real range in the master (like the gif you linked) won't benefit from having 40 dB sitting on top of the signal. It just requires more gain to be applied to hit realistic listening levels for the user, which likely will drag noise along with it. I've got some old classical recordings that will eat up 30-40 dB of range though, and god help the poor sap who cranks the volume up to get the intro "loud" - very_evil_smiley.gif There's also genre specific definitions of "dynamic" - huge values on the board aren't always best. But yes, I understand you now. smily_headphones1.gif

I've heard this argument before too, and think it has two sides. Remember that the loudness war STARTED on vinyl and with rock'n'roll back in the day:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_wars

The lack of channel separation and (ideally) increased DNR would lead to perceptible differences, yes, and I've observed this as well with vinyl vs digital (you can also demo this with DVD or Blu-ray audio generally, as reference standards for cinema sound generally includes 20 dB of DNR). Personally I'm a believer in extreme channel separation/isolation, and letting it "mix" at playback (it's not like your speakers are on separate continents), but with headphones that requires extra goodies.

Still want to unbox a table and hook it up - if only I had the room!

Question for you, or stacker, or anyone else who does modern vinyl: how do you feel about modern electronica/house releases? Like Daft Punk or any of the MoS stuff?
Quote:
Originally Posted by scootsit View Post

Sure, there are newer speakers out there that are ruler flat and cost $10,000 and all that, but those that I've heard lack the character of some of the earlier stuff.

You can get ruler-flat for less than $10,000. And they still sound lifeless by and large. tongue.gif

I agree with you on the sound-sig thing - Grados certainly have that "oldschool, high-end" sound going on. But without getting shrieky or clashy like a lot of old speakers can (there's *a lot* of crap back there in history that I think we're all glad to forget).

DCR: You are absolutely right. The Who had some terrible rereleases in the 80s, unfortunately, my "Who's Next" pressing is abysmal, and I far prefer the CD.

 

I'm aware you can get ruler-flat for under $10k, I guess I just picked a big number, but it was pretty arbitrary, you can get pretty decent for around $2k. But, you can get similar clarity (albeit colored) in vintage gear, if you check Craigslist, and what not for far, far less.

 

Your last point: That's some of the most fun. Garrard decks, for example. My god those things were not good. I've been most disappointed with an old Panasonic (entry level, I think it had a JC Penney price tag) receiver that I rebuilt, it was pretty sad. Time is a filter that way, the 50lb Pioneer stereo your grandfather bought, he likely put on a shelf or sold to someone, the 5lb Sears brand, likely got junked. Much of what has survived (both people choosing to hang on to it, and survived abuse) isn't too bad. I do enjoy some of the more famous examples of crap. I will probably always have a Garrard on hand, that I will rarely listen to, just for fun. They were well built, but had plastic tone-arms, and platters that rang like crazy. Don't get me started on old carts. But, you find an old table with something like a V15, or even one of the lower end Shure carts, and it ain't audiophile, but it can be fun. People talk about synergy in systems, to some degree, I like a little bit of synergy between what I'm listening to and what I play it on. There's something cool about listening to the Beatles on my Wharfedales, because much of the UK was listening to them on the same speakers. Listening to some pop Elton John or even some other Beatles on a Garrard Lab can be fun, because that's what everyone had when those records sold the first time, so they are a far cry from audiophile, but they can sound fun in their own right.

 

Grados are great in that they aren't perfect, but they sound like really high end vintage gear.

 

I recently bought some mid 1920-1930s cans, really, really old suckers. They do not sound particularly good, but I do want to throw some old big band on my deck, plug them in, and hear the recordings sorta how they did in 1930 (granted, mine are 33s, not 78s, and I'm using a phono, not a victrola, but still). Sometimes there is value in imperfection. I think to some degree, that's another appeal of records, they sound perhaps slightly imperfect, and are so system dependant, that it gives the record play back character, it is unique, and I appreciate that, I'm not sure if that makes any sense.

 

 

My folks have a victrola, and I want to restore that sucker pretty bad.


Edited by scootsit - 11/8/12 at 10:45pm
post #5504 of 16829
Quote:
Originally Posted by scootsit View Post


I'm aware you can get ruler-flat for under $10k, I guess I just picked a big number, but it was pretty arbitrary, you can get pretty decent for around $2k. But, you can get similar clarity (albeit colored) in vintage gear, if you check Craigslist, and what not for far, far less.

Another deal hunter! beerchug.gif
Quote:
Your last point: That's some of the most fun. Garrard decks, for example. My god those things were not good. I've been most disappointed with an old Panasonic (entry level, I think it had a JC Penney price tag) receiver that I rebuilt, it was pretty sad. Time is a filter that way, the 50lb Pioneer stereo your grandfather bought, he likely put on a shelf or sold to someone, the 5lb Sears brand, likely got junked. Much of what has survived (both people choosing to hang on to it, and survived abuse) isn't too bad. I do enjoy some of the more famous examples of crap. I will probably always have a Garrard on hand, that I will rarely listen to, just for fun. They were well built, but had plastic tone-arms, and platters that rang like crazy. Don't get me started on old carts. But, you find an old table with something like a V15, or even one of the lower end Shure carts, and it ain't audiophile, but it can be fun. People talk about synergy in systems, to some degree, I like a little bit of synergy between what I'm listening to and what I play it on. There's something cool about listening to the Beatles on my Wharfedales, because much of the UK was listening to them on the same speakers. Listening to some pop Elton John or even some other Beatles on a Garrard Lab can be fun, because that's what everyone had when those records sold the first time, so they are a far cry from audiophile, but they can sound fun in their own right.

God - I'm just thinking of how many absolute piece of trash console systems I've helped *ahem* retire over the years.
Quote:
Grados are great in that they aren't perfect, but they sound like really high end vintage gear.

Heck I'd put'em up there with some non-chart-warrior modern gear too. I think it comes down to design philosophy - Grado, like many "old timers" trust a human as the final decider, a lot of modern designs trust an APA. And as a result Grados have a personality to them, while a lot of modern designs kind of blur together into a homogeneous block of "boringness."
Quote:
I recently bought some mid 1920-1930s cans, really, really old suckers. They do not sound particularly good, but I do want to throw some old big band on my deck, plug them in, and hear the recordings sorta how they did in 1930 (granted, mine are 33s, not 78s, and I'm using a phono, not a victrola, but still). Sometimes there is value in imperfection. My folks have a victrola, and I want to restore that sucker pretty bad.

Moving iron radio headset or DT48 derivative?

Pics?
post #5505 of 16829
Quote:
Originally Posted by obobskivich View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by scootsit View Post


I'm aware you can get ruler-flat for under $10k, I guess I just picked a big number, but it was pretty arbitrary, you can get pretty decent for around $2k. But, you can get similar clarity (albeit colored) in vintage gear, if you check Craigslist, and what not for far, far less.

Another deal hunter! beerchug.gif
Quote:
Your last point: That's some of the most fun. Garrard decks, for example. My god those things were not good. I've been most disappointed with an old Panasonic (entry level, I think it had a JC Penney price tag) receiver that I rebuilt, it was pretty sad. Time is a filter that way, the 50lb Pioneer stereo your grandfather bought, he likely put on a shelf or sold to someone, the 5lb Sears brand, likely got junked. Much of what has survived (both people choosing to hang on to it, and survived abuse) isn't too bad. I do enjoy some of the more famous examples of crap. I will probably always have a Garrard on hand, that I will rarely listen to, just for fun. They were well built, but had plastic tone-arms, and platters that rang like crazy. Don't get me started on old carts. But, you find an old table with something like a V15, or even one of the lower end Shure carts, and it ain't audiophile, but it can be fun. People talk about synergy in systems, to some degree, I like a little bit of synergy between what I'm listening to and what I play it on. There's something cool about listening to the Beatles on my Wharfedales, because much of the UK was listening to them on the same speakers. Listening to some pop Elton John or even some other Beatles on a Garrard Lab can be fun, because that's what everyone had when those records sold the first time, so they are a far cry from audiophile, but they can sound fun in their own right.

God - I'm just thinking of how many absolute piece of trash console systems I've helped *ahem* retire over the years.
Quote:
Grados are great in that they aren't perfect, but they sound like really high end vintage gear.

Heck I'd put'em up there with some non-chart-warrior modern gear too. I think it comes down to design philosophy - Grado, like many "old timers" trust a human as the final decider, a lot of modern designs trust an APA. And as a result Grados have a personality to them, while a lot of modern designs kind of blur together into a homogeneous block of "boringness."
Quote:
I recently bought some mid 1920-1930s cans, really, really old suckers. They do not sound particularly good, but I do want to throw some old big band on my deck, plug them in, and hear the recordings sorta how they did in 1930 (granted, mine are 33s, not 78s, and I'm using a phono, not a victrola, but still). Sometimes there is value in imperfection. My folks have a victrola, and I want to restore that sucker pretty bad.

Moving iron radio headset or DT48 derivative?

Pics?


Yep. I emailed Scott over at oldheadphones.com or something with the pictures I took, he gave me tons of info, I think they're German or Austrian from the 20s. Umm, I posted some before on head-fi: http://www.head-fi.org/t/609556/some-really-old-cans-safar-r-2000

I have one more pic, uploading it now, Not the greatest pics, I can take more if you're interested.

700

 

For somewhat obvious reasons, they made me love the styling of the Grados even more.


Edited by scootsit - 11/8/12 at 10:58pm
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