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Grado Fan Club! - Page 363

post #5431 of 24399
Quote:
Originally Posted by eltocliousus View Post

Can anyone recommend an amplifier/DAC combination or seperate devices for around $400 total, to pair with the PS500s? I've been looking at the O2+ODAC, aswell as the TEAC UDH-01 (mixed opinions on that one), but can't seem to settle as there's always one thing people dislike, makes a decision difficult. Size does not matter (home use), however I'd need USB input or spdif.

 

Jan Meier has a new portable amp that has a USB DAC.  The Grant Fidelity DAC/amp is highly regarded, as well. And that Musical Fidelity piece Obob suggested should be killer.  For coming right off a laptop, the AudioEngine D1 is a favorite of mine. It sounds great with the 500s.


Edited by Focker - 11/6/12 at 2:27pm
post #5432 of 24399
Quote:
Originally Posted by obobskivich View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbophead View Post

IME, the PS500 is slightly (1-2dB?) more efficient than the 325is making it even easier to drive.

We can surely see if that's been tested...smily_headphones1.gif

And survey says:
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/GradoPS500.pdf
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/GradoSR325i.pdf
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/GradoRS1.pdf

PS-500 looks substantially more sensitive! (it's 7.4 times more sensitive, which is not quite 10 dB (10x))

I still vote V-CAN - it does just as well with my more sensitive Audio Technicas, and still remains dead quiet and properly tracked. The thing you have to remember with more sensitive headphones is that they're more likely to let you know about noise or tracking errors within your chain, so it's a blessing and a curse. Thankfully the PS-500 aren't also some insanely low impedance, like 5 ohms, so they likely aren't going to attune you parcel-tongue, but it's still worth thinking about as you look at amplifiers.

See. this is why headphone measurements can be such bullsh*t.  I've owned both and I can ASSURE you that the PS500 is NOT10db hotter than the 325is.  One can "just" hear the difference.  I'm also pretty sure that 10dB does not quite equal 10x.  Not a real big fan of Tyll, but then, I LIKE Grados.blink.gif  


Edited by bbophead - 11/6/12 at 2:39pm
post #5433 of 24399
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbophead View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by obobskivich View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbophead View Post

IME, the PS500 is slightly (1-2dB?) more efficient than the 325is making it even easier to drive.

We can surely see if that's been tested...smily_headphones1.gif

And survey says:
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/GradoPS500.pdf
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/GradoSR325i.pdf
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/GradoRS1.pdf

PS-500 looks substantially more sensitive! (it's 7.4 times more sensitive, which is not quite 10 dB (10x))

I still vote V-CAN - it does just as well with my more sensitive Audio Technicas, and still remains dead quiet and properly tracked. The thing you have to remember with more sensitive headphones is that they're more likely to let you know about noise or tracking errors within your chain, so it's a blessing and a curse. Thankfully the PS-500 aren't also some insanely low impedance, like 5 ohms, so they likely aren't going to attune you parcel-tongue, but it's still worth thinking about as you look at amplifiers.

See. this is why headphone measurements can be such bullsh*t.  I've owned both and I can ASSURE you that the PS500 is NOT10db hotter than the 325is.  One can "just" hear the difference.  I'm also pretty sure that 10dB does not quite equal 10x.  Not a real big fan of Tyll, but then, I LIKE Grados.blink.gif  


I've never met the guy, but he seems pretty darned amiable.

post #5434 of 24399
Quote:
Originally Posted by scootsit View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbophead View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by obobskivich View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbophead View Post

IME, the PS500 is slightly (1-2dB?) more efficient than the 325is making it even easier to drive.

We can surely see if that's been tested...smily_headphones1.gif

And survey says:
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/GradoPS500.pdf
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/GradoSR325i.pdf
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/GradoRS1.pdf

PS-500 looks substantially more sensitive! (it's 7.4 times more sensitive, which is not quite 10 dB (10x))

I still vote V-CAN - it does just as well with my more sensitive Audio Technicas, and still remains dead quiet and properly tracked. The thing you have to remember with more sensitive headphones is that they're more likely to let you know about noise or tracking errors within your chain, so it's a blessing and a curse. Thankfully the PS-500 aren't also some insanely low impedance, like 5 ohms, so they likely aren't going to attune you parcel-tongue, but it's still worth thinking about as you look at amplifiers.

See. this is why headphone measurements can be such bullsh*t.  I've owned both and I can ASSURE you that the PS500 is NOT10db hotter than the 325is.  One can "just" hear the difference.  I'm also pretty sure that 10dB does not quite equal 10x.  Not a real big fan of Tyll, but then, I LIKE Grados.blink.gif  


I've never met the guy, but he seems pretty darned amiable.

Darn right.  i guess I should have said, not a real big fan of his assessments of headphones.  So sorry.

post #5435 of 24399
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbophead View Post

See. this is why headphone measurements can be such bullsh*t.  I've owned both and I can ASSURE you that the PS500 is NOT10db hotter than the 325is.  One can "just" hear the difference.  I'm also pretty sure that 10dB does not quite equal 10x.  Not a real big fan of Tyll, but then, I LIKE Grados.blink.gif   

I didn't say 10 dB, I said nearly, it's like 8-9 dB, which is kind of a weird zone. As far as 10 dB being 10x - it is (absolutely), but that doesn't mean it sounds 10x louder, it means it sounds about twice as loud. This isn't a case of measurements being "bull" - they're somewhat more sensitive, and 8-9 dB would be about right for that (1-2 dB wouldn't be perceptible, 10 dB would be around "twice" (which is fairly minimal)). This is based on lots of experience with speakers more than anything else.

Here's some more information:
http://trace.wisc.edu/docs/2004-About-dB/
Edited by obobskivich - 11/6/12 at 3:24pm
post #5436 of 24399
smily_headphones1.gif

Why no one talking about The Dragonfly here
http://www.head-fi.org/t/617241/audioquest-dragonfly-review-affordable-outstanding-tiny-dac-amp

Great combo with Grado...
Im using this just direct from my PC to PS500 and the DF serve me very well.

Ha Ha.
post #5437 of 24399
Quote:
Originally Posted by Focker View Post

 

Jan Meier has a new portable amp that has a USB DAC.  The Grant Fidelity DAC/amp is highly regarded, as well. And that Musical Fidelity piece Obob suggested should be killer.  For coming right off a laptop, the AudioEngine D1 is a favorite of mine. It sounds great with the 500s.

 

It's nice to see peoples recomending Musical Fidelity,they don't seem to get mention very often,i for one have had my X-CAN V2 for 10 trouble free years now and considering the fact that it's ''always on'',meaning that it doesn't have an ON/OFF switch.that's saying a lot about it's reliability,plus i think it looks cool.

post #5438 of 24399
I am eyeing on the Fiio E17 , but darn Apple changed the IPad4 connector to lightning cable, just like the Iphone5. Now those 30pin generic LOD might not even work unless you buy the Apple lightning to 30pin adapter that cost around $20 or maybe the Apple camera kit $29 so I can hook up a DAC/amp.

Maybe I will just temporary use the 3.5mm to 3.5mm connector until Apple release a lightning to 3.5mm connector . That is a big IF!
post #5439 of 24399
Quote:
Originally Posted by Awgd8 View Post

I am eyeing on the Fiio E17 , but darn Apple changed the IPad4 connector to lightning cable, just like the Iphone5. Now those 30pin generic LOD might not even work unless you buy the Apple lightning to 30pin adapter that cost around $20 or maybe the Apple camera kit $29 so I can hook up a DAC/amp.

Maybe I will just temporary use the 3.5mm to 3.5mm connector until Apple release a lightning to 3.5mm connector . That is a big IF!

Could you use a regular 30 pin LOD with the converter?

post #5440 of 24399
Quote:
It's nice to see peoples recomending Musical Fidelity,they don't seem to get mention very often,i for one have had my X-CAN V2 for 10 trouble free years now and considering the fact that it's ''always on'',meaning that it doesn't have an ON/OFF switch.that's saying a lot about it's reliability,plus i think it looks cool.

 

I hated the idea of leaving the tubes cooking all day and night so I purchased a Little Pinkie power supply for my V3, like the idea of being able to turn the amp on and off.
 

post #5441 of 24399
Quote:
Originally Posted by scootsit View Post

Could you use a regular 30 pin LOD with the converter?

Not sure yet, but anyhow, I am buying it next week (e17) and if it does not work, I will use my wife Ipad2 temporarily until apple release a lightning to 3.5mm connector.

My budget for the DAC/AMP is only $150 , are there any better DAC/Amp combo that is better than FIio E17 ?
post #5442 of 24399
Quote:
Originally Posted by Awgd8 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by scootsit View Post

Could you use a regular 30 pin LOD with the converter?

Not sure yet, but anyhow, I am buying it next week (e17) and if it does not work, I will use my wife Ipad2 temporarily until apple release a lightning to 3.5mm connector.

My budget for the DAC/AMP is only $150 , are there any better DAC/Amp combo that is better than FIio E17 ?


I don't know, I DIY most of my amps and DACs, others would know better.

post #5443 of 24399
Quote:
Originally Posted by obobskivich View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbophead View Post

See. this is why headphone measurements can be such bullsh*t.  I've owned both and I can ASSURE you that the PS500 is NOT10db hotter than the 325is.  One can "just" hear the difference.  I'm also pretty sure that 10dB does not quite equal 10x.  Not a real big fan of Tyll, but then, I LIKE Grados.blink.gif   

I didn't say 10 dB, I said nearly, it's like 8-9 dB, which is kind of a weird zone. As far as 10 dB being 10x - it is (absolutely), but that doesn't mean it sounds 10x louder, it means it sounds about twice as loud. This isn't a case of measurements being "bull" - they're somewhat more sensitive, and 8-9 dB would be about right for that (1-2 dB wouldn't be perceptible, 10 dB would be around "twice" (which is fairly minimal)). This is based on lots of experience with speakers more than anything else.

Here's some more information:
http://trace.wisc.edu/docs/2004-About-dB/

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by obobskivich View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbophead View Post

See. this is why headphone measurements can be such bullsh*t.  I've owned both and I can ASSURE you that the PS500 is NOT10db hotter than the 325is.  One can "just" hear the difference.  I'm also pretty sure that 10dB does not quite equal 10x.  Not a real big fan of Tyll, but then, I LIKE Grados.blink.gif   

I didn't say 10 dB, I said nearly, it's like 8-9 dB, which is kind of a weird zone. As far as 10 dB being 10x - it is (absolutely), but that doesn't mean it sounds 10x louder, it means it sounds about twice as loud. This isn't a case of measurements being "bull" - they're somewhat more sensitive, and 8-9 dB would be about right for that (1-2 dB wouldn't be perceptible, 10 dB would be around "twice" (which is fairly minimal)). This is based on lots of experience with speakers more than anything else.

Here's some more information:
http://trace.wisc.edu/docs/2004-About-dB/

You seem to want to argue about my perception of the difference in loudness between the 325is and 500

 

After fifty years, as I have had, I'm sure you've had just as much experieince with speakers.

 

 When you write "10x", I guess you don't mean ten times.  Is that correct?  So what does "x" mean if it doesn't mean ten times?

 

 BTW, you did not write "nearly", you wrote "not quite".  You parce it out.

 

I stand by what I wrote.  It was just perceptible.  Was it 1-2dB or was it "not quite" 10dB?  

 

No p*ssing contest intended.  I think I described the differences accurately.  

 

This is silly.

post #5444 of 24399
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbophead View Post


You seem to want to argue about my perception of the difference in loudness between the 325is and 500

Do I ever want to argue? rolleyes.gif
Quote:
 When you write "10x", I guess you don't mean ten times.  Is that correct?  So what does "x" mean if it doesn't mean ten times?

10x means 10 times, I do use "x" to signify multiplication. 10 dB is 10 times, that's how the dB scale works. There is no "subjective re-interpretation" of that. It's just a log scale that measures intensity as a relationship.

Maybe this will help:
http://www.animations.physics.unsw.edu.au/jw/dB.htm

Wikipedia also has a nice chart:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decibel
Quote:
 BTW, you did not write "nearly", you wrote "not quite".  You parce it out.

This isn't a political debate, there is no "gotcha" with wordplay. Nearly, not quite, who gives a hoot? The difference is measured to be less than 10 dB (and nobody has said otherwise afaik), it's just under 9 dB. But that's intensity, not loudness. There is a (big) difference. Ten-fold increases in intensity roughly correlate to a two-fold increase in perceived loudness, and we're talking about less than that. Like I said, weird zone. How do you quantify "less than double but more than where you started" reasonably? It's a fraction - so the easiest answer is "yeah we can notice it - but it isn't twice as loud" - it's not a big enough deal that we should write home about it, but it's worth taking note when considering amplifier noise and tracking (as mentioned previously) - more sensitive will be less forgiving in that regard. But they're not *insanely* sensitive (like say, the DT48A.00 (because if you weren't deaf before, we can fix that!)).
Quote:
Was it 1-2dB or was it "not quite" 10dB?  

From measurement data, it's just under 9 dB of additional sensitivity. Which would agree with your subjective impressions. What's the problem?

Quote:
This is silly.

Truly. You're getting up in a huff because someone agreed with you. confused_face_2.gif

Nobody is trying to take your cans away man, nobody is saying they're bad, and nobody is trying to hurt or defame you (least of all me). The data actually agree with exactly what you're saying here...I really fail to see what the problem is. redface.gif
Edited by obobskivich - 11/6/12 at 6:31pm
post #5445 of 24399
Quote:
Originally Posted by obobskivich View Post


Truly. You're getting up in a huff because someone agreed with you. confused_face_2.gif
 

 

I think this is the part I'm hung up on lol....I thought you were agreeing, and then it turned into a semantics issue. 

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