Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Headphones (full-size) › Grado Fan Club!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Grado Fan Club! - Page 360

post #5386 of 18757
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribestros View Post

I honestly think the 325i is a terrible headphone and that Grado needs to massively revamp its sound signature. I was very displeased by the bloated midrange, deadly highs and boring low end. The speakers reminded me of a Bose car stereo; it can go loud, it's just very unpleasant with nothing captivating at loud volumes. I suspect the people who like the 325i also like Klipsch's horn loaded tweeters in their speakers, which I also find unbearable due to the highs. I really find the SR60i and the 80i the only enjoyable Grado headphones, though.

 

Wow.

post #5387 of 18757
Quote:
Originally Posted by obobskivich View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by scootsit View Post

What is John's relationship with George Alessandro? What was the thinking and/or business strategy behind this parternering?

George is an old friend of John's who happens to live around the corner from him. George was running a successful amp business and wanted to add something new to his line, so he asked if John would manufacture some custom headphones for him. John agreed and per George's specifications, John released the Alessandro line. This line is owned by George and the differences are trade secrets between this line and the Grado line.

From: http://www.head-fi.org/t/127867/an-interview-with-john-grado

That's not the source I was actually referring to, but I read somewhere that everything but the drivers was identical.

To me, that doesn't read as "Alessandro custom designed everything in-house" but more "they cooked up a spec and Grado met it" - more like how the PS-1 came into being. redface.gif


Right, that wasn't the thing I read yesterday that said that George Alessandro modified the driver, and the rest is regular Grado. I don't know where I read it, but I know I did somewhere, I did a bit of googling to no avail. I think it's all made by Grado, but Alessandro speced the signature. Really, I'm talking out my ass, I can't find the article.

post #5388 of 18757
Quote:
Originally Posted by obobskivich View Post

And just to beat Focker's point harder - I'd disagree with this. I think the RS-1 are *sublime* for vocals - probably among the most natural reproduction I've ever heard. Notice all of the "I" in that though. I'm glad to hear the PS-500 are working for you though, and they're certainly a very purdy set of cans!
When I emailed Alessandro they told me the MS-Pro and RS-1i were "very similar" and basically discouraged me from buying the MS-Pro, but wouldn't expand with details; I think "trade secret" might've been used in the message too. Of course that makes me MORE curious, but I doubt we'll ever truly know, as you said. redface.gif
+1. I've always thought the wood/metal hybrid looked nice.


Thanks! My experience with RS1i on femal vocals ( high pitch singer) were piercing sharp on my iMac desktop and decent enough , but not awesome, on my Ipod touch. Both sources were unAmped and no equalizer either.

I noticed that I prefer the sound coming fom my Ipod touch than the iMac. The sound coming from the Ipod sounds natural, more body or better blend of HIgh, mids and bass. Both RS1i and PS500s prefer the Ipod source, but it was the opposite on my RS325is. I like the Rs325is on my iMac , but from Ipod touch, the sound quality seems subpar....

Really confusing....
post #5389 of 18757
Quote:
Originally Posted by Awgd8 View Post

Thanks! My experience with RS1i on femal vocals ( high pitch singer) were piercing sharp on my iMac desktop and decent enough , but not awesome, on my Ipod touch. Both sources were unAmped and no equalizer either.
I noticed that I prefer the sound coming fom my Ipod touch than the iMac. The sound coming from the Ipod sounds natural, more body or better blend of HIgh, mids and bass. Both RS1i and PS500s prefer the Ipod source, but it was the opposite on my RS325is. I like the Rs325is on my iMac , but from Ipod touch, the sound quality seems subpar....
Really confusing....

Not sure with the SR-325 in the mix, but it isn't surprising that the iPod is better than the iMac here - it's battery powered and one of the lowest impedance/most stable outputs on the block. I'm guessing the iMac (despite Apple's claims of unobtanium) uses fairly cheap COTS hardware. ph34r.gif
post #5390 of 18757
Quote:
Originally Posted by obobskivich View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Awgd8 View Post

Thanks! My experience with RS1i on femal vocals ( high pitch singer) were piercing sharp on my iMac desktop and decent enough , but not awesome, on my Ipod touch. Both sources were unAmped and no equalizer either.
I noticed that I prefer the sound coming fom my Ipod touch than the iMac. The sound coming from the Ipod sounds natural, more body or better blend of HIgh, mids and bass. Both RS1i and PS500s prefer the Ipod source, but it was the opposite on my RS325is. I like the Rs325is on my iMac , but from Ipod touch, the sound quality seems subpar....
Really confusing....

Not sure with the SR-325 in the mix, but it isn't surprising that the iPod is better than the iMac here - it's battery powered and one of the lowest impedance/most stable outputs on the block. I'm guessing the iMac (despite Apple's claims of unobtanium) uses fairly cheap COTS hardware. ph34r.gif


I've actually heard that the iMacs are nearly bitperfect out of iTunes, and have decent output impedances. But, the iTouches are supposed to have a near 0 out impedance. I recall somewhere there being a discussion of the amount of electrical/physical dampening in Grados, and as a result, some people preferred certain models with slightly higher output impedance, as high as 20z. I don't remember the thread, but the impedance selection is dependent upon dampening, and that could make some subtle differences.

post #5391 of 18757
Quote:
Originally Posted by scootsit View Post


I've actually heard that the iMacs are nearly bitperfect out of iTunes, and have decent output impedances. But, the iTouches are supposed to have a near 0 out impedance. I recall somewhere there being a discussion of the amount of electrical/physical dampening in Grados, and as a result, some people preferred certain models with slightly higher output impedance, as high as 20z. I don't remember the thread, but the impedance selection is dependent upon dampening, and that could make some subtle differences.

Ugh, bitperfect. It's an illusion. redface.gif There will always be dropped samples, a given error rate, jitter, pre and post ringing, and so on - and once you get past "really bad" digital, you're talking about gnat hairs as an explanation for the wildebeest stampede that killed Mufasa in the first Lion King.

Anyways - output impedance has nothing to do with electrical damping (which is a fantasy), and even if it did, Grados are *extremely* stable, so it's not like you'd see much FR deviation even if you run Zsource up to the moon. At absolute worst though, all you'll see is some FR deviation on very reactive headphones that may or may not result in certain frequencies being boosted (it isn't always bass - it depends on the impedance curve).

The "idea" behind electrical damping is this belief in some magical fantasy where the amplifier with higher DF (which is lower Zsource obscured behind marketing speak) can somehow wrassle the driver to stop moving - it can't (don't believe me? crossbar a driver and push on it - does it move?). Physical damping is related to enclosure design, and open headphones by nature should have that pretty well taken care of (Grados are screwy though, and have resonance peaks despite being open - that's either in the driver, or due to it being a tube), as well as the motor's ability to start and stop (which has to do with how well the motor is designed). You can't fix this without changing physical things.

With reactive headphones, output Z does become preferential - because of how it can alter their FR. Anything less than 2 dB and you shouldn't care, but depending on the setup you can see a lot more than 2 dB. For example, I liked my HD 580 on a 470R tap a lot more than anywhere else, but the RS-1 and a few of my other stable headphones I've never really cared from amp to amp (and if Focker pops up and says "but you like that Musical Fidelity so much!" - yeah, but that's because it's *CLEAN* not because of some "it adds so much more bass" quackery). But of course that never translates for a lot of people, and they assume that if one headphone reacts in such a way, ALL headphones will react in such a way.

But what I was actually getting at, is that the audio controller on the iMac is probably some super-cheap codec that can barely swing enough current/voltage to drive a line sink, let alone a pair of headphones, and that may not even be able to put up flat FR. And the RS series are less sensitive than the Prestige cans, so you're probably pushing it to the limits and seeing not insubstantial THD. There's also the question of grounding problems that plague integrated audio controllers, which most battery-driven devices sidestep because they see a pure DC source, but you'll usually know before the music even starts if this is an issue.
post #5392 of 18757
Quote:
Originally Posted by obobskivich View Post


 the wildebeest stampede that killed Mufasa in the first Lion King.
 

 

I digress here, but if any of you get the chance to see the broadway version of the Lion King, you will be AMAZED at the way they portray this particular scene...I saw it ten years ago and it still stays with me as one of the most impressive things I've ever seen. 

post #5393 of 18757
Quote:
Originally Posted by obobskivich View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by scootsit View Post


I've actually heard that the iMacs are nearly bitperfect out of iTunes, and have decent output impedances. But, the iTouches are supposed to have a near 0 out impedance. I recall somewhere there being a discussion of the amount of electrical/physical dampening in Grados, and as a result, some people preferred certain models with slightly higher output impedance, as high as 20z. I don't remember the thread, but the impedance selection is dependent upon dampening, and that could make some subtle differences.

Ugh, bitperfect. It's an illusion. redface.gif There will always be dropped samples, a given error rate, jitter, pre and post ringing, and so on - and once you get past "really bad" digital, you're talking about gnat hairs as an explanation for the wildebeest stampede that killed Mufasa in the first Lion King.

Anyways - output impedance has nothing to do with electrical damping (which is a fantasy), and even if it did, Grados are *extremely* stable, so it's not like you'd see much FR deviation even if you run Zsource up to the moon. At absolute worst though, all you'll see is some FR deviation on very reactive headphones that may or may not result in certain frequencies being boosted (it isn't always bass - it depends on the impedance curve).

The "idea" behind electrical damping is this belief in some magical fantasy where the amplifier with higher DF (which is lower Zsource obscured behind marketing speak) can somehow wrassle the driver to stop moving - it can't (don't believe me? crossbar a driver and push on it - does it move?). Physical damping is related to enclosure design, and open headphones by nature should have that pretty well taken care of (Grados are screwy though, and have resonance peaks despite being open - that's either in the driver, or due to it being a tube), as well as the motor's ability to start and stop (which has to do with how well the motor is designed). You can't fix this without changing physical things.

With reactive headphones, output Z does become preferential - because of how it can alter their FR. Anything less than 2 dB and you shouldn't care, but depending on the setup you can see a lot more than 2 dB. For example, I liked my HD 580 on a 470R tap a lot more than anywhere else, but the RS-1 and a few of my other stable headphones I've never really cared from amp to amp (and if Focker pops up and says "but you like that Musical Fidelity so much!" - yeah, but that's because it's *CLEAN* not because of some "it adds so much more bass" quackery). But of course that never translates for a lot of people, and they assume that if one headphone reacts in such a way, ALL headphones will react in such a way.

But what I was actually getting at, is that the audio controller on the iMac is probably some super-cheap codec that can barely swing enough current/voltage to drive a line sink, let alone a pair of headphones, and that may not even be able to put up flat FR. And the RS series are less sensitive than the Prestige cans, so you're probably pushing it to the limits and seeing not insubstantial THD. There's also the question of grounding problems that plague integrated audio controllers, which most battery-driven devices sidestep because they see a pure DC source, but you'll usually know before the music even starts if this is an issue.


Thanks for the info, you filled in a lot of gaps in my understanding!

post #5394 of 18757
Quote:
Originally Posted by scootsit View Post


Thanks for the info, you filled in a lot of gaps in my understanding!

NP. smily_headphones1.gif
post #5395 of 18757

Darn iMac!   Any recommendation for a simple desktop/portable AMP/DAC ?  less than $200 ...

post #5396 of 18757
Quote:
Originally Posted by Awgd8 View Post

Darn iMac!   Any recommendation for a simple desktop/portable AMP/DAC ?  less than $200 ...

 

Audioengine D1 is my choice....it's perfect for Grados, too. 

post #5397 of 18757
Quote:
Originally Posted by Focker View Post

 

Audioengine D1 is my choice....it's perfect for Grados, too. 

Great!  I will start saving now for this... =)   Thanks!  beerchug.gif

post #5398 of 18757
Quote:
Originally Posted by Awgd8 View Post

Great!  I will start saving now for this... =)   Thanks!  beerchug.gif

 

You bet. It works great with a laptop/desktop, but I like using mine as a stand alone DAC/amp....just get yourself one of these little guys http://www.amazon.com/USB-AC-Power-Adapter-White/dp/B0038HYPZS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1351830291&sr=8-1&keywords=usb+wall+adapter or somthing similar and you're good to go. 

 

Here is a good review for more info: http://www.avguide.com/review/audioengine-d1-dacheadphone-amp-playback-54

 

I was pretty surprised how well the Grados paired with it...sounded really good! 

post #5399 of 18757
If it doesn't need a DAC (and if your iMac doesn't put noise out, I doubt it does based on what you've said this far - is there a humming or buzzing noise? if no, it's good to go), Musical Fidelity V-CAN or Fiio E9. If it needs a DAC built-in, no idea. This one measures *very* well though:
http://en.goldenears.net/index.php?mid=GR_DAC_Amp&document_srl=6825
post #5400 of 18757
Quote:
Originally Posted by obobskivich View Post

If it doesn't need a DAC (and if your iMac doesn't put noise out, I doubt it does based on what you've said this far - is there a humming or buzzing noise? if no, it's good to go), Musical Fidelity V-CAN or Fiio E9. If it needs a DAC built-in, no idea. This one measures *very* well though:
http://en.goldenears.net/index.php?mid=GR_DAC_Amp&document_srl=6825


If it's just a low current issue, a simple buffer should do the trick, especially since you probably need no gain. Even a unity-gain CMoy would probably work out okay.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Headphones (full-size)
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Headphones (full-size) › Grado Fan Club!