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post #4486 of 21113
Quote:
Originally Posted by parbaked View Post

No, I use Grados, or I use IEMs when I need to isolate. Evidently I also use bad grammar. :/

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

 

Sorry i got bored the threads are drying up!


Edited by our martin - 9/10/12 at 3:45pm
post #4487 of 21113

If I am going to end up modding the 'phones to hell (woodies etc), does it matter which model I get?  I guess I'm asking if there's some difference between the 80i vs 225i vs 325i that even modding can't change.  Are the drivers all the same for instance?

post #4488 of 21113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valicious View Post

If I am going to end up modding the 'phones to hell (woodies etc), does it matter which model I get?  I guess I'm asking if there's some difference between the 80i vs 225i vs 325i that even modding can't change.  Are the drivers all the same for instance?

 

IMO there is definitely a difference in the 3 drivers that doesn't simply come down to the enclosures etc.  The 325is are definitely very different to the 225is (325i's brighter. more detailed, punchier bass).  I know Obob questions the idea of buying 325i if you're going to mod them extensively.  My way of thinking as follows (assuming you want 325i drivers):

 

[a] Buy either SR60i or MS1i ($100)
 - add vibro cups (+$95)

 - add headband (+$38)
 - add cable - your call - I built one with canare mini starquad - cost $10-20 by the time I got the parts to NZ.  I'll leave this one out of the equation.

 - add 325i drivers (+$70ish) assuming you can find some used in the FS forum eventually

Total ~  $300

 

[b] Buy second hand 325i on forums here $205 (example http://www.head-fi.org/t/626875/grado-325is-perfect-condition)

 - sell aluminium cups ($-50) .... someone bound to want them - I bought and sold mine on FS forum

 - add vibro cups (+$95)

 - add cable - your call - I built one with canare mini starquad - cost $10-20 by the time I got the parts to NZ. I'll leave this one out of the equation.

Total ~ $250

If you don't like the Grado headband - this even leaves room to add a new manta headband and come in under the $300 mark.

 

 

I went the option one route - mainly because I was transitioning and playing around.  It would have actually been better to take option 2 in hindsight.  Plus - if you get the 325is and mod, you already have the bowls - rrather than just the comfy pads.

 

Hope this assists your thought process.

post #4489 of 21113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooko View Post

 

IMO there is definitely a difference in the 3 drivers that doesn't simply come down to the enclosures etc.  The 325is are definitely very different to the 225is (325i's brighter. more detailed, punchier bass).  I know Obob questions the idea of buying 325i if you're going to mod them extensively.  My way of thinking as follows (assuming you want 325i drivers):

 

[a] Buy either SR60i or MS1i ($100)
 - add vibro cups (+$95)

 - add headband (+$38)
 - add cable - your call - I built one with canare mini starquad - cost $10-20 by the time I got the parts to NZ.  I'll leave this one out of the equation.

 - add 325i drivers (+$70ish) assuming you can find some used in the FS forum eventually

Total ~  $300

 

[b] Buy second hand 325i on forums here $205 (example http://www.head-fi.org/t/626875/grado-325is-perfect-condition)

 - sell aluminium cups ($-50) .... someone bound to want them - I bought and sold mine on FS forum

 - add vibro cups (+$95)

 - add cable - your call - I built one with canare mini starquad - cost $10-20 by the time I got the parts to NZ. I'll leave this one out of the equation.

Total ~ $250

If you don't like the Grado headband - this even leaves room to add a new manta headband and come in under the $300 mark.

 

 

I went the option one route - mainly because I was transitioning and playing around.  It would have actually been better to take option 2 in hindsight.  Plus - if you get the 325is and mod, you already have the bowls - rrather than just the comfy pads.

 

Hope this assists your thought process.

The drivers for the 225 and 325 are closer matched than the 60, 80 or 125. As such that's what you want. if you want the closest matched Grado drivers.Objectively most agree the difference in sound between the 60/80/125 and the 225 result from drivers, cables and the metal screens. Differences between the 225 and 325 are likely a result of the metal vs. plastic cups. That's just an objective view based on what Grado is actually changing between the models. 

post #4490 of 21113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooko View Post

 

IMO there is definitely a difference in the 3 drivers that doesn't simply come down to the enclosures etc.  The 325is are definitely very different to the 225is (325i's brighter. more detailed, punchier bass).  I know Obob questions the idea of buying 325i if you're going to mod them extensively.  My way of thinking as follows (assuming you want 325i drivers):

 

[a] Buy either SR60i or MS1i ($100)
 - add vibro cups (+$95)

 - add headband (+$38)
 - add cable - your call - I built one with canare mini starquad - cost $10-20 by the time I got the parts to NZ.  I'll leave this one out of the equation.

 - add 325i drivers (+$70ish) assuming you can find some used in the FS forum eventually

Total ~  $300

 

[b] Buy second hand 325i on forums here $205 (example http://www.head-fi.org/t/626875/grado-325is-perfect-condition)

 - sell aluminium cups ($-50) .... someone bound to want them - I bought and sold mine on FS forum

 - add vibro cups (+$95)

 - add cable - your call - I built one with canare mini starquad - cost $10-20 by the time I got the parts to NZ. I'll leave this one out of the equation.

Total ~ $250

If you don't like the Grado headband - this even leaves room to add a new manta headband and come in under the $300 mark.

 

 

I went the option one route - mainly because I was transitioning and playing around.  It would have actually been better to take option 2 in hindsight.  Plus - if you get the 325is and mod, you already have the bowls - rrather than just the comfy pads.

 

Hope this assists your thought process.

THANK YOU so much!  I sent that seller a PM.

post #4491 of 21113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valicious View Post

THANK YOU so much!  I sent that seller a PM.

+1 on 2nd hand 325 or Ms2 for 'phones as is or for modding!  My only advice would be to listen to the un-modded 325s for as long as you can hold out so you have a reference as you make changes. Good luck and enjoy!

post #4492 of 21113

I haven't made a lot of posts, only 7.  I hope this won't be an issue trying to buy on here.  (some places require a vertain postcount.  I wasn't sure about here.)  I'd love to post more, but I'm not even sure I know enough to really post anything with content.


Edited by Valicious - 9/10/12 at 8:10pm
post #4493 of 21113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Focker View Post

 

 

Yep, it just reinforces what I experienced when I first heard them...sometimes a speaker or headphone sounds good at first just because it's different...but the 80s have stood the test of time with me. It's been 9 months now and I still use them frequently and still consider them  the best headphones I've heard under $100. I have a handful of other headphones under $100 here collecting dust that never get used. I just have no desire to listen to them, whereas I've found applications for the 80s that allow them to stay active in my rotation. They're the only headphone at that price point that I could honestly live with as my only headphone if for some reason I was forced to only have one headphone. 

 

I swear man,we must have been brothers in another life,we often share the same opinion,plus,i just checked,and i bought my SR80i's on August 30th 2011,so it's been a bit over a year,but i paid $112 CDN for mine,wich i tought was a good price,especially when you consider everything they have going for them,they're feather light,comfortable,for me at least,they're very easy to drive,portable of course,and i think they look good,in a Darth Vader kind of way.

 

In a way i'm more impressed with the sound of my SR80i,than i am with my PS1000,making an expensive pair of headphones that sounds great is one thing,but making a cheap pair of headphones that sounds very good is much more impressive to me,and Grado has managed to do it twice with the SR60i and SR80i.

 

I've said this before,but i too,could be very happy with the SR80i's as my only pair of headphones.

post #4494 of 21113

I have older, unbuttoned SR80s re-cabled with Mogami that I feel the same way about. It seems the worse the source the better these outperform my 'better' Grados.

post #4495 of 21113
Quote:
Originally Posted by stacker45 View Post

 

I swear man,we must have been brothers in another life,we often share the same opinion,plus,i just checked,and i bought my SR80i's on August 30th 2011,so it's been a bit over a year,but i paid $112 CDN for mine,wich i tought was a good price,especially when you consider everything they have going for them,they're feather light,comfortable,for me at least,they're very easy to drive,portable of course,and i think they look good,in a Darth Vader kind of way.

 

In a way i'm more impressed with the sound of my SR80i,than i am with my PS1000,making an expensive pair of headphones that sounds great is one thing,but making a cheap pair of headphones that sounds very good is much more impressive to me,and Grado has managed to do it twice with the SR60i and SR80i.

 

I've said this before,but i too,could be very happy with the SR80i's as my only pair of headphones.

 

haha, well, my mom was adopted and I really like Canada....so you never know! 

post #4496 of 21113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_Himself View Post

Actually they use a binning process which separates the chaff from the good stuff, all non RS grade drivers become SR series from what I understand. So technically they gotta make a butt ton of "other" headphones before they get one thats like.. RS-1 good.

Yeah I've heard this is their "model" based on that and their general manufacturing practice for phono carts. They make the RS series headphones in very small batches (I've heard no more than 10 at a time), my understanding is the process is something like:

- Make a butt-load of drivers.
- See which ones are closest to the "ideal" (which becomes a TOTL).
- Put those in whatever enclosure (RS-1, GS-1k, etc).
- Compare those finished enclosures with a tester to get the closest matched pairs for installation on a headband and finishing as a headphone.

I think they basically follow that model down the line, but as you get down to the SR-60 they're just getting "close enough" whereas the RS-1 are more of that "hand built zero fail" kind of thing.
Quote:
Indeed they even make the plastic parts in-house, but I'm not sure if thats onsite because from what I saw, they were manufacturered in some sort of sweatshop in an apartment.

The plastic parts are manufactured in-house with Grado's own injection molding machine. This was covered on their factory tour. No sweat-shops involved. biggrin.gif

The only work that's done out of house (aside from anything they outsource entirely, like the iGrado) is the woodwork (those come from another manufacturer who exclusively supplies Grado), like for the RA-1 or PA-1, and I don't think they actually draw their own wire in house.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lightsplease View Post

Thanks for all the info! Yeah, I guess I'm also kinda in that situation where the extra $200 jump from RS-2i to the RS-1i seems a little steep. But then again I get that feeling that I should either go big or go home on my next purchase which has kind of convinced me to consider the RS-2i instead of merely upgrading to the SR325i. Can anyone go into anymore details on how the RS line compares to the SR?

My take is that unless you could compare the RS-2 and RS-1, you'd always be questioning the RS-1 over the RS-2. So I went with the RS-1.

RS vs SR is a bit more dramatic of a change:

The RS series are more "holographic" or "3D" sounding in their presentation, while the SR series are more of a "wall of sound" from each side. Intimate versus direct. SR is more "headphoney" sounding than the RS-1 as well. Both are good, but distinct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Focker View Post

Not just you...I found the same thing. 

Yeah, I don't get the comfort complaints at all. Honestly imho the RS-1 are the most comfortable on-ears I've ever worn (the SR series are very good too!), even more-so than the ESW9 (which uses much fancier Lambskin pads and weighs a good deal less (it's about a third lighter than even the RS-2)). Grado is absolutely 110% right in saying the pads need some break-in (about a week), and I wonder if most of the complaints are the "fresh out the box" pairs (I've seen a growing trend for people to trash stuff in the first 45 minutes of owning it/listening to it instead of reading the manual or otherwise following instructions).

Quote:
Originally Posted by parbaked View Post

Evidently I also use bad grammar. :/

LOL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valicious View Post

If I am going to end up modding the 'phones to hell (woodies etc), does it matter which model I get?  I guess I'm asking if there's some difference between the 80i vs 225i vs 325i that even modding can't change.  Are the drivers all the same for instance?

The cheaper models have worse driver matching, and I think up until recently (or maybe still?) worse cables (if that kind of thing matters to you). There's also a difference in the terminations - the cheaper ones come with 1/8" while the higher up models have 1/4".

You cannot fix driver matching with modding, but the headband, cups, etc are entirely fair game, and if you're replacing all of those and just want the drivers, the SR-225 are a solid choice because they have the best driver matching (just like the SR-325 and higher). Anything over the SR-225 even from Grado is just the result of changes to the housing, headband, earpads, etc. So if you're gonna do all that at home, save the money.

Regarding the origin of Grado drivers - that's a very taboo topic for some reason, so I'm gonna leave it alone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooko View Post

IMO there is definitely a difference in the 3 drivers that doesn't simply come down to the enclosures etc.  The 325is are definitely very different to the 225is (325i's brighter. more detailed, punchier bass).  I know Obob questions the idea of buying 325i if you're going to mod them extensively.  My way of thinking as follows (assuming you want 325i drivers):

[a] Buy either SR60i or MS1i ($100)

 - add vibro cups (+$95)
 - add headband (+$38)

 - add cable - your call - I built one with canare mini starquad - cost $10-20 by the time I got the parts to NZ.  I'll leave this one out of the equation.
 - add 325i drivers (+$70ish) assuming you can find some used in the FS forum eventually
Total ~  $300

Buy second hand 325i on forums here $205 (example http://www.head-fi.org/t/626875/grado-325is-perfect-condition)
 - sell aluminium cups ($-50) .... someone bound to want them - I bought and sold mine on FS forum
 - add vibro cups (+$95)
 - add cable - your call - I built one with canare mini starquad - cost $10-20 by the time I got the parts to NZ. I'll leave this one out of the equation.
Total ~ $250
If you don't like the Grado headband - this even leaves room to add a new manta headband and come in under the $300 mark.


I went the option one route - mainly because I was transitioning and playing around.  It would have actually been better to take option 2 in hindsight.  Plus - if you get the 325is and mod, you already have the bowls - rrather than just the comfy pads.

Hope this assists your thought process.

I like this reasoning, but the SR-225 will do the same thing; same pads, same cable, etc. All you give up are the aluminum cups (which you're replacing) and the leather headband (which I assume you'd replace even on the SR-325 if you're doing full custom, just for color options).

Quote:
Originally Posted by parbaked View Post

The drivers for the 225 and 325 are closer matched than the 60, 80 or 125. As such that's what you want. if you want the closest matched Grado drivers.Objectively most agree the difference in sound between the 60/80/125 and the 225 result from drivers, cables and the metal screens. Differences between the 225 and 325 are likely a result of the metal vs. plastic cups. That's just an objective view based on what Grado is actually changing between the models. 

This. There's probably also some change to sound due to the difference in fit between the SR-325 and SR-225 (due to the weight), but I'm not certain of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by parbaked View Post

+1 on 2nd hand 325 or Ms2 for 'phones as is or for modding!  My only advice would be to listen to the un-modded 325s for as long as you can hold out so you have a reference as you make changes. Good luck and enjoy!

Yes, listen to the original version of whatever you get out of the box! Get an idea of what they sound like, and what you want to change or improve or get from them, so you have a reference as you start changing things up. biggrin.gif
post #4497 of 21113
Quote:
Originally Posted by obobskivich View Post

I like this reasoning, but the SR-225 will do the same thing; same pads, same cable, etc. All you give up are the aluminum cups (which you're replacing) and the leather headband (which I assume you'd replace even on the SR-325 if you're doing full custom, just for color options).
 

 

Might just be me - but even after swapping the aluminium for wood - I still found the 325i to be brighter and clearer than the 225i.  So in that particular case - I wonder if it has anything to do with the finish (doping?) on the drivers?

 

Either way - I agree that both the 225i and 325i would be optimum for modding if you're going to keep the original drivers.  Of course if you're going to go magnum, or pick up 2nd hand 325i drivers from someone else - then deefinitely go with cheapest frame (ie SR60i or MS1i) beerchug.gif

post #4498 of 21113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooko View Post

Might just be me - but even after swapping the aluminium for wood - I still found the 325i to be brighter and clearer than the 225i.  So in that particular case - I wonder if it has anything to do with the finish (doping?) on the drivers?

No idea. redface.gif
Quote:
Either way - I agree that both the 225i and 325i would be optimum for modding if you're going to keep the original drivers.  Of course if you're going to go magnum, or pick up 2nd hand 325i drivers from someone else - then deefinitely go with cheapest frame (ie SR60i or MS1i) beerchug.gif

beerchug.gif

Alternately here, you could just get a V6 and use that headband. Would probably save you some more money.
post #4499 of 21113

Please bear in mind that, as per Grado, the 225 and 325 don't seem to be the exact same drivers.

325is = Frequency Response 18-24

225i =  FR 20-22

 

post #4500 of 21113
Quote:
Originally Posted by xaval View Post

Please bear in mind that, as per Grado, the 225 and 325 don't seem to be the exact same drivers.
325is = Frequency Response 18-24
225i =  FR 20-22


Those numbers are nonsense as all headphone FR values from all manufacturers are. wink.gif (see here for how real values should be stated: http://www.rane.com/note145.html)

They do the same thing with their carts, but are more up-front about it. I don't think anyone but JG himself really knows about the exact origins of those drivers, and what (if any) differences exist, but I'm pretty sure they're going to be nearly identical (impedance/phase certainly is) after you go past the SR-225 and remove housing, cabling, etc from the equation. I think the sole reason they don't just say this is that a lot of people are wholeheartedly convinced that enclosures and earpads and so on do absolutely nothing at all to the sound, and that it would create a lot of fuss if they had to explain that constantly.
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