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New Schiit Lyr: Hybrid 6W Headphone Amp. Yes. Six. Watts. RMS. - Page 44

post #646 of 833

"This fluctuating field works against the steady/stationary magnetic field created by the permanent magnet and causes the ribbon or voice coil to move the air in concert with the fluctuating audio signal."

 

Talk me thru this, just trying to understand... so in electrostatics, my understanding is the membrane is steadily charged (like permanent magnets in Heil's etc.)  But the grids on either side fluctuate with the signal according to electromagnetic principles of repulsion/attraction. Is that right? So, isn't that membrane with conductive material deposited on it, kinda sorta like an electromagnet?

post #647 of 833
Quote:
Originally Posted by sferic View Post

"This fluctuating field works against the steady/stationary magnetic field created by the permanent magnet and causes the ribbon or voice coil to move the air in concert with the fluctuating audio signal."

 

Talk me thru this, just trying to understand... so in electrostatics, my understanding is the membrane is steadily charged (like permanent magnets in Heil's etc.)  But the grids on either side fluctuate with the signal according to electromagnetic principles of repulsion/attraction. Is that right? So, isn't that membrane with conductive material deposited on it, kinda sorta like an electromagnet?

That's close, but it's electrostatic attraction and repulsion, not electromagnetic, virtually all of today's stats apply the bias (stationary, non fluctuating) voltage to the diaphragm and apply a complimentary balanced audio signal to the stators.  As the signal fluctuates, the statically charged diaphragm is either attracted or repulsed from the stators electrostatically.  Since the signal to the stators is complimentary, one stator will always be attracting the diaphragm and the other will always be repelling it.
 

Static electricity, as the name implies, is static, that is, potentials are there, but no current flows between them.  Electrostatic attraction is easily demonstrated by rubbing a balloon on your hair inside the warm house when it is very cold outside.  The humidity is low so when the balloon is rubbed, static charge builds up on the surface of the balloon.  When you bring the charged balloon near a wall it typically is attracted to the wall and will stay "stuck" to the wall, until one discharges the static charge on the balloon.

 


Edited by kwkarth - 3/25/11 at 10:58pm
post #648 of 833
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwkarth View Post




Nope, there are a number of drivers in the audio world that are piezo electric.  None used in headphones that I'm aware of.  Heils use very strong magnets and are, of course, electromagnetically actuated.  The other audio transducer technology that has not shown up in headphones is plasma / ionic air motion transducers.

 

 

So the Heil is air motion, yes?  But it uses magnets?  I have not read up on those for a long time, so sort of curious, but I realize we've strayed FAR from the topic here...sorry biggrin.gif
 

 

post #649 of 833
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwkarth View Post




Nope, there are a number of drivers in the audio world that are piezo electric.  None used in headphones that I'm aware of.  Heils use very strong magnets and are, of course, electromagnetically actuated.  The other audio transducer technology that has not shown up in headphones is plasma / ionic air motion transducers.

 

actually, some vintage pioneers used piezo electric drivers

Se50067ix2.jpg
pretty snazzy

 

post #650 of 833

You may be able to use this for stats out of the Lyr: http://www.wooaudio.com/products/wee.html

 

The $1000 you would pend on both could probably get you a much better amp for electrostats, but the Wee may work with the Lyr.

post #651 of 833
Quote:
Originally Posted by sferic View Post

.......

But all of your cruel remarks (and not one of you bothering to really explain electrostatics for those people I might have confused) really make me just want to walk away and leave it to the jocks competing for imaginary girlfriends/boyfriends who are turned on by a 500+ post count. If you really want to build a community here why not try a little tact, lift your brother/sister when s/he falls down instead stomping him/her in the face. I'm not competing with anyone here on technical knowledge, just trying to share how much or how little I know after spending 50 years loving music and music technology.

 

well said!

 

 

post #652 of 833
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeGoodman View Post

You may be able to use this for stats out of the Lyr: http://www.wooaudio.com/products/wee.html

 

The $1000 you would pend on both could probably get you a much better amp for electrostats, but the Wee may work with the Lyr.



Jason already stated that it was a bad idea to have a 6.3 to bare wire adapter and hook it up.

post #653 of 833

Lightbulb moment, thanks KWkarth. I called a bicycle a boat when I was thinking "transportation".

 

Now how bout that Schiit Lyr! 2nd night rocking it with the LCD-2's and still loving it...

post #654 of 833
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylab View Post

So the Heil is air motion, yes?  But it uses magnets?  I have not read up on those for a long time, so sort of curious, but I realize we've strayed FAR from the topic here...sorry biggrin.gif

Yes, the Heil AMT is a derivation of a ribbon tweeter, in essence.  It employs a VERY strong magnetic structure.  The "ribbon" is pleated like an accordion bellows, so it's surface to air contact area is much larger than the area which is occupies.  This gives is a better coupling, in terms of acoustic impedance, to the air.  Were it not for the fact that the diaphragm is heavily pleated, you might even consider the AMT to be a derivation on the theme of a planar magnetic.  The topic has meandered quite a bit, but I guess it's to be expected as we wait for more reports to come in from new Lyr owners.
 

 

post #655 of 833
Quote:
Originally Posted by KuKuBuKu View Post

actually, some vintage pioneers used piezo electric drivers

Se50067ix2.jpg
pretty snazzy


Yup... I was always sorry I never grabbed a pair of those.  The piezo driver from Pioneer was quite unique.  It was some sort of polymer film that had been treated to give it piezo-electric properties.  They produced tweeters made of the same material for a while too.  It was constrained along each side and bowed hemispherically.  The voltage applied caused the material to "grow" and since it was constrained at the sides, this caused the diaphragm to move air in concert.  I wonder why Pioneer stopped production of that technology?

 

post #656 of 833

Interesting product, I have a few amps that it could mesh well with instead of purchasing the LYR which would save on costs.  The only reason I asked about the Stax headphone was because someone is selling it locally used for $480.  

post #657 of 833
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwkarth View Post




Yup... I was always sorry I never grabbed a pair of those.  The piezo driver from Pioneer was quite unique.  It was some sort of polymer film that had been treated to give it piezo-electric properties.  They produced tweeters made of the same material for a while too.  It was constrained along each side and bowed hemispherically.  The voltage applied caused the material to "grow" and since it was constrained at the sides, this caused the diaphragm to move air in concert.  I wonder why Pioneer stopped production of that technology?

 


well, pioneer now markets to a mainstream market than needs cheapy buds that are only used for a month before they break... like the low end Sony headphones. Also, they were hard to drive, despite being so simple.

 

post #658 of 833

Quote:

Originally Posted by KuKuBuKu View Post

Jason already stated that it was a bad idea to have a 6.3 to bare wire adapter and hook it up.


He said it might not work, but that you wouldn't break anything if you tried it since it has passive overcurrent protection.

post #659 of 833
Quote:
Originally Posted by maverickronin View Post

Quote:


He said it might not work, but that you wouldn't break anything if you tried it since it has passive overcurrent protection.


I would not encourage anyone to press their luck in that fashion.  You'd be much better off getting a vintage integrated amp or receiver and using that to drive the likes of a WEE.

 

post #660 of 833
Quote:
Originally Posted by KuKuBuKu View Post

well, pioneer now markets to a mainstream market than needs cheapy buds that are only used for a month before they break... like the low end Sony headphones. Also, they were hard to drive, despite being so simple.

Yeah, you're probably right...pity though...  Would still like to see that technology exploited to its limits.
 

 

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