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New Schiit Lyr: Hybrid 6W Headphone Amp. Yes. Six. Watts. RMS. - Page 28

post #406 of 833

 


Quote:

Originally Posted by stuckonsound View Post

The sound characteristics described above sound much like the Asgard. 

 

Particularly, peoples descriptions of the LCD-2 with Asgard. I find it interesting you believe you were in the middle of the volume range with the LCD-2. My Asgard has ample volume with the harder to drive HE-5LE between 11 and 1 o'clock. With six times more power and an easier to drive phone, I would expect the LCD-2 to be screaming. What was the source? My one one complaint with the original 6moons review of Asgard was that he choose a dock with 1 volt output and declared the amp insufficient for orthos. I feed my Asgard 2.6 volts and believe it works quite well.

 

I didn't do comparisons at the same time, but Lyr is probably a wee-bit warmer with more slam, but overall more similar than different. Unlike the HE6s, I really didn't feel the LCD2s needed a humongous amount power to be happy. (I wished I had been able to hear the HE6s played with the Lyr.) The DAC in question was a mid-level Theta - not one of those huge Theta monstrosities. With the Lyr in the way it's hard to tell, but I think the DAC was probably more (but not too much) on the polite side than aggressive.
 


Edited by purrin - 2/24/11 at 4:00pm
post #407 of 833

Why do DAC's have such differing output levels? I just had to return a balanced XDA-1 that I had high hopes for, as it just didn't have enough gain on the analog line outs for my Alesis>HiFiMAN rig.

 

There was no line out mode on it, but attenuated all the way up at 80 with my amp all the way up past 5pm, it still didn't power the headphones properly. It was slightly better single-ended than balanced in this respect, but nowhere near adequate for my setup in either mode.

 

Using the balanced Matrix Mini-i in line out mode (no attenuation) for comparison, I listen to my RA150>HE-6 rig at about 10:30am on the volume pots. This is about the same as the level that I get out of my Devilsound v2 DAC cable, which is how I usually listen to this rig. My Mini-i didn't fare quite as well in attenuated mode, but it was still adequate and much better than anything I could get out of the XDA-1. Single ended with the Mini-i yielded pretty much the same results as balanced.

 

This was the opposite of what I had feared, as the reports of excessive volume on the earlier models are what prompted the new "logarithmic" volume control programming. I may call Emotiva again to clarify, but from their explanation it sounded like they had it originally set up with a linear volume control to go into balanced amps made for studio/pro-audio use, and balanced amps made for home/audiophile use want less gain. My Alesis is made for pro audio use, so evidently not for the XDA-1.

 

This explanation is confusing to me, as the Devilsound DAC cable and the Matrix Mini-i are clearly made for home/audiophile use. I would like to see if one of the original models with the linear volume settings would work with my amp, but I don't want to risk another round of expensive shipping charges to my location.

 

Back OT, I wonder what the preferred input gain level of the Lyr is, whether it has the supposedly higher "pro audio" requirements or if it prefers the more forgiving "home audiophile" input levels?

post #408 of 833


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by purrin View Post

 


Quote:

 

I didn't do comparisons at the same time, but Lyr is probably a wee-bit warmer with more slam, but overall more similar than different. Unlike the HE6s, I really didn't feel the LCD2s needed a humongous amount power to be happy. (I wished I had been able to hear the HE6s played with the Lyr.) The DAC in question was a mid-level Theta - not one of those huge Theta monstrosities. With the Lyr in the way it's hard to tell, but I think the DAC was probably more (but not too much) on the polite side than aggressive.
 


To this date the best digital I ever heard was an Accuphase transport through a Theta 10K DAC. Mike designed some serious digital in the 90's hooked up to a CAT SL1 preamp and CAT 100W monoblock triode amps with the Genesiss 11 speakers. I have never heard any system that played music like that before or since. Stunning and the most live music I heard in Overture in Deleware . If Mike can bring that magic back in a player and a dac at more reasonable prices that would be something

post #409 of 833
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank I View Post


 


To this date the best digital I ever heard was an Accuphase transport through a Theta 10K DAC. Mike designed some serious digital in the 90's hooked up to a CAT SL1 preamp and CAT 100W monoblock triode amps with the Genesiss 11 speakers. I have never heard any system that played music like that before or since. Stunning and the most live music I heard in Overture in Deleware . If Mike can bring that magic back in a player and a dac at more reasonable prices that would be something


Back then I've always wanted a CAT preamp.  :-)

post #410 of 833

Anyone know how this might compare to the Audio GD C2 SA? the C2 also puts 6 watts into 50 ohms. Solid state thought, looks interesting.

post #411 of 833
Jason is starting to send out the wonderful Lyrs. Got my email that it has been paid for and will ship Friday. Hopefully will take less than a week to Australia.
post #412 of 833
Quote:
Originally Posted by wuwhere View Post




Back then I've always wanted a CAT preamp.  :-)



I owned a CAT SL1 MK11 for 10 years with a CJ Premier 11A boy do I miss both those pieces. But now at this stage I am into smaller more portable type gear.

post #413 of 833

Thanks Jason, it was nice to wake up to a Shipped email for my Lyr. Cant wait to get to listening. Always nice when these things get shipped on time, much less early like this. Thanks again.

post #414 of 833

Can't wait for impressions of this.

post #415 of 833
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylab View Post

I HATE the JJ E88CC. I know why people who make amps have to use them, because they don't want to deal with keeping NOS tubes in stock to supply with their amps. But the JJ's are not good sounding, IMO. Put a pair of Sylvania 6922's in the Lyr, and THEN let's hear what it sounds like.

 


X2,  current production tubes just don't cut it. I'm looking forward to plugging in some German made Valvo E188cc's in the (very) near future and hoping for good results with the LCD2's. What a treat to check out gear for a modest shipping return expense if it's a no go, thanks Jason! The Asgard was just to sterile for my taste, but a great amp, and fun audition... just a tube guy I guess. 

post #416 of 833

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't tube rolling have less of an effect on the sound of a hybrid than it does with a "full" tube amp?

 

It's probably not that simple though... rolleyes.gif

post #417 of 833

I find it interesting that this amp was designed with the LCD-2s (and the like) in mind, yet the poster who auditioned the Lyr with the LCD at the meet said he was unimpressed with the combination.

 

As for the tubes in the Lyr, I too thought that the tubes were mainly used as a power supply 'thing' and not directly related to the sound quality per se. Therefore, like GROKIT, I think changing them shouldn't have a huge effect on the sound quaility in this particular design. Perhaps the valve community could enlighten me (us). 

post #418 of 833

The tubes in a hybrid design are used to provide voltage gain.  It's hard for me to imagine how they could possibly NOT impact the sound, and in every other hybrid design I have ever heard, the tubes very definitely did have an influence on the sound.

post #419 of 833
Thread Starter 

Hey all,

 

To clarify a few things:

 

1. Tube swapping absolutely *does* change the character of the sound. As Skylab said, we're using the tubes for voltage gain--arguably the most important aspect of the overall sonic character of the amplifier--so yes, changing tubes will change the sound quality. Sometimes dramatically.

 

2. And yes, we encourage everyone to tube roll. The operating point is set by a current source, so there's no danger in trying many different brands of 6DJ8/6922/7308/ECC88/6N1P. The catch is: make sure you get the tubes as perfectly matched as possible, and buy them from reputable sources. We've been bitten by funky/nonmatched/microphonic tubes from sketchy sources from time to time. The other catch is--yep, we'll admit it--the tubes are kinda fun to get out of the chassis. Hint: use the foam provided with the tubes to grab them.

 

3. The JJ tubes we provide give good overall performance when sorted and matched on a modern curve tracer (NOT on a 50-year-old tube tester with a single meter), and they have the added benefit of being non-microphonic and having good heater/cathode alignment for low noise. They are used in $2500 amplifiers. Are they the best thing out there at any price? Nope. That's why the amp is rollable. 

 

4. Purrin, I'm unsure how you got the impression Lyr is dark or closed-in, though I don't debate it. What I will say is that you're the only listener who's said that. To date, that is. We'll see what happens when more impressions show up. 

 

5. The more I hear about dark/smooth/etc, the more I remember the Theta/Sumo days, when it was a near-nightly occurrence to head over to the Theta listening room (Sumo and Theta shared an industrial park.) And--it's funny--every single one of the best amps sounded "quiet," "dark," or "closed-in" on initial listening. Every time we reduced feedback, the amp got "quieter" and "softer." Every time we improved the open-loop linearity, the amp sounded "quieter" and "rolled." And yet those amps measured ruler-flat into the AM band. Aaaannnd . . . on longer listening, every one of those "quiet, rolled" amps proved to be more accurate and ultimately resolving than the amps that sounded detailed and bright on first impression. But hey, that's my story, right, and I'm an evil manufacturer bent on emptying your wallet. Or something like that.

post #420 of 833

Empty my wallet, already!

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