I believe I have come to a conclusion regarding High-End Chinese DAPs

Thank you for this, I have not heard the units you mention but am happy with how my standard ipod sounds now I have balanced it out with the appropriate equipment. I did wonder about these "Wunder" units and after reading reams on them it seems that once the shine of new ownership has gone people start reporting more truthfully about them.

Of course if you have them and love them great, no ones ears are the same and what sounds great to me might sound rubbish to others.

For me, well I love having all my music with me, I did think about the 601 and then figured out how much the SD cards would cost to be able take my music with me and gave up on the thought. I do not know why these companies cannot put better amounts of storage in their machines, after all flash memory is relatively cheap nowadays!

I feel that the best compromise between SQ, utility, and build (and price) lie somewhere in Cowon or S flo, with my preference to the cowons. 

also see http://www.headfonia.com/colorfly-c4/

only comment here if you have actually heard either of these with your own ears and your own tunes, okay? thanks!

melomaniac, I havent heard either, but I feel compelled to make a comment,

The Chinese can, and will, get better at this, just as the Koreans have lifted their game in the auto industry. Those who base their opinion of Hyundai on models from 5-10 years ago probably need to re-evaluate that opinion, and I believe that their cars will continue to improve over the next decade. I am led to believe that audio-gd and others are already producing reliable, quality products out of China, but I'll leave it to others to comment on that.

10 years from now, we may look back on this with a different perspective. Older Head-Fiers will recall when 'Made In Japan' wasn't a tag you wanted to see on manufactured goodies - it was largely synonymous with 'cheap and nasty' right up to the 70s, but how many of us drool over Japanese audio in the 21st century ? The key, obviously, is quality control - if I stick my name on an amp and sell it to you, I am responsible for ensuring that the quality of workmanship is commensurate with the price you paid (and my marketing photos/specs) - I dont get to offload that responsibility to some guy with a soldering iron in Guanzhou.

My personal opinion is that some of the Chinese entrepreneurs have been swamped by the demand for their products - it then becomes a mad dash to make production reality meet demand and quality suffers. As I said, we may have a completely different take on this in 2020 - lets revisit this thread then :)

I agree and you can see this in Kingwa's commend on the audio-gd forum reflecting on the past year and their goal for the new year.  I think there is a clear goal to get better in the production/management/QA aspect and less on the "getting new product on the market" mentality.

Part of the typical growing pain many company experiences and I too look forward to what many Chinese company can bring to market as they mature.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by estreeter 

 

Is it Chinese manufacturing that is at issue here or is it the specific Chinese DAP that you are concern with?  If it is Chinese DAP, then that is just two examples of two independent companies that just happened to make a DAP.  There is no need to bring Chinese into the mixed.  By the way, the same company also make the HE-6 and other highend products.  If it is Chinese manufacturing that you are talking about, I am sure you know almost all of Apple products (Iphone, ipad, macbook etc) are manufactured in China, right.  In fact, LG Electronics, Samsung and almost many Japanese brands have factory in China.  Most of the cell phones (HTC) and flat panel screens are also made in China.  It is not Chinese manufacturing that is the problem here, I think when you are a small company you may not have the resource to utilized  high end manufacturing process.  For instance, if you want a modernized and advanced plant to make your products, you'll need to place an order by 5,000 to 10,000 units.  How many units of HM801 or C4 do you think the company has made in the first order.  China can do and match anything to the teeth, it's just how much you are willing to spend.  I have seen a replaca Rolex watch and a real exact Rolex watch next to each other and the owner of the real watch is afraid to take his watch off his wrist for afraid he cannot find the real one back.  Now tell me how good is China manufacturing ability

When it comes to consumer electronics...

Korea is the new Japan.

China is the new Korea.

Vietnam is the new China.

Although it doesn't excuse the crappy UI of the latest Chinese "Audiophile DAPs" I think estreeter is correct that in due time they will catch up.

^^ so where has Japan gone in your list?..Korea=Japan?

IMHO Japan has hits its peak.  Korea, China and Vietnam are all progressing; with China and Vietnam progressing at the most rapid rate.

I agree that Japan has hit its peak..though my personal view is that Korea cant still match it yet. the problem for Japan is finding shelf space overseas due to the cost of its products and strong yen. Korea offers better cost at slightly lower high end products, and they have now expanded their market greatly. 

on the opposite end, you see some really nice Japanese products that are only sold in Japan because the cost is limiting, especially when you consider distribution and shelf space costs when sales are expected to be low...

The HiFiMan Hm-601 sounds awesome.

'nuf said.

@LevA, I should have been more specific. My intent was to be cute, but something got lost in translation.

I'm speaking about the pace of technological development in the 4 countries.  Korea is what Japan was in the 80's, etc.

If you buy electronic products in Japan, they are mostly stamped with made in Japan. The same electronic product sold outside of Japan are made somewhere else, mostly China. If you want to set an electronic manufacturing plant in China, all equipment that you need to bring in must be new, be it SMD soldering machines, oscilloscopes, audio analyzers, etc... That's because they do not allow used manufacturing/test equipment to be brought in. Now as far as quality control, you have to be there to monitor their work. And regularly inspect randomly the finished product for soldering, solder balls, etc... You don't want them to control the quality of your product or else it will suffer. That's how we did it where I used to work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoulSyde 

@LevA, I should have been more specific. My intent was to be cute, but something got lost in translation.

 

I'm speaking about the pace of technological development in the 4 countries.  Korea is what Japan was in the 80's, etc.

just messin with ya . I think Korea is becoming a strong competitor to Japan, and probably will catch up  in a decade or two. 

While Korea is developing at a very fast rate, Japan still continues to have the effects of recession from the 90's..lets hope for Koreas sake they stay like what japan was in the 80's and never witness the 90's..