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Placebos work even when people are told it is a placebo

post #1 of 33
Thread Starter 

Interesting.  It seems that you don't need DBT to demonstrate the placebo effect.

 

Found here: http://www.bmedreport.com/archives/21216

 

The article:

 

Quote:

Prescription MedicationFor most of us, the “placebo effect” is synonymous with the power of positive thinking; it works because you believe you are taking a real drug. But a new study rattles this assumption. Researchers at Harvard Medical School’s Osher Research Center and Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center (BIDMC) have found that placebos work even when administered without the seemingly requisite deception. The study is published December 22 in the open access journal, PLoS ONE. Check the end of this report for a link to download this study.

 

Placebos – or dummy pills – are typically used in clinical trials as controls for potential new medications. Even though they contain no active ingredients, patients often respond to them. In fact, data on placebos is so compelling that many American physicians (one study estimates 50 percent) secretly give placebos to unsuspecting patients.

 

Because such “deception” is ethically questionable, HMS associate professor of medicine Ted Kaptchuk teamed up with colleagues at BIDMC to explore whether or not the power of placebos can be harnessed honestly and respectfully.

To do this, 80 patients suffering from irritable bowel syndrome (IBS) were divided into two groups: (1) the controls who received no treatment; (2) experimental group who received a regimen of placebos – honestly described as “like sugar pills” – which they were instructed to take twice daily.

 

“Not only did we make it absolutely clear that these pills had no active ingredient and were made from inert substances, but we actually had ‘placebo’ printed on the bottle,” says Kaptchuk. “We told the patients that they didn’t have to even believe in the placebo effect. Just take the pills.”

 

For a three-week period, the patients were monitored. By the end of the trial, nearly twice as many patients treated with the placebo reported adequate symptom relief as compared to the control group (59 percent vs. 35 percent). Also, on other outcome measures, patients taking the placebo doubled their rates of improvement to a degree roughly equivalent to the effects of the most powerful IBS medications.

 

“I didn’t think it would work,” says senior author Anthony Lembo, HMS associate professor of medicine at BIDMC and an expert on IBS. “I felt awkward asking patients to literally take a placebo. But to my surprise, it seemed to work for many of them.”

 

The authors caution that this study is small and limited in scope and simply opens the door to the notion that placebos are effective even for the fully informed patient – a hypothesis that will need to be confirmed in larger trials.

“Nevertheless,” says Kaptchuk, “these findings suggest that rather than mere positive thinking, there may be significant benefit to the very performance of medical ritual. I’m excited about studying this further. Placebo may work even if patients knows it is a placebo.”

 

This study was funded by the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine and Osher Research Center, Harvard Medical School.

 

Material adapted from Harvard Medical School and David Cameron.

 

Reference:
Ted J Kaptchuk (1,2), Elizabeth Friedlander (1), John M Kelley (3,4), M Norma Sanchez (1), Efi Kokkotou (1), Joyce P Singer (2), Magda Kowalczykowski (1), Franklin G Miller (5), Irving Kirsch (6) and Anthony J Lembo (1). “Placebos without deception: A randomized controlled trial in irritable bowel syndrome.PLoS ONE, December 22, 2010, online publication.

(1) Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, Harvard Medical School, Boston, MA
(2) Osher Research Center, Harvard Medical School, Boston, MA
(3) Psychology Department, Endicott College, Beverly, MA
(4) Massachusetts General Hospital, Harvard Medical School, Boston, MA
(5) Department of Bioethics, National Institutes of Health, Bethesda, MD
(6) Department of Psychology, University of Hull, Hull, UK

post #2 of 33

This is extremely scary, the many physicians are doing this and you don't know part eek.gif interesting article though. Another way to cut cost they should conduct more observations but we shall see..

 

 


Edited by Confispect - 12/24/10 at 3:06pm
post #3 of 33

Doctors are hilariously solipsistic.  There were two potential reactions to this study: a) surprise that placebos worked; and b) surprise that medicines didn't.  Naturally, they went for a), thereby missing the bigger story, which is that Big Pharma has no real clue what it's doing.

post #4 of 33
Thread Starter 
Where's the evidence that medicines don't work? Plenty of them are tried and discarded because they cannot demonstrate them to work. That's science.

So is demonstrating that people feel better when simply put through the "medical ritual."

It isn't a far stretch to say that people hear "differences" when put through the audiophile ritual. Apparently, it's the ceremony and tradition that makes the difference.
post #5 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Erik View Post

Where's the evidence that medicines don't work?


I would say it's contained in the sentences "nearly twice as many patients treated with the placebo reported adequate symptom relief as compared to the control group (59 percent vs. 35 percent). Also, on other outcome measures, patients taking the placebo doubled their rates of improvement to a degree roughly equivalent to the effects of the most powerful IBS medications."

 

But I agree about ritual.  I've taken flak in these forums for thinking that (for instance) burn in is purely liturgical and devotional in nature.

post #6 of 33


The control group is taking no medication.  Ritual > no medication.  But in most studies, Medication > Placebo (which is why these medications are usually then made publicly available).  I wonder how uninformed placebo compares to informed placebo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by InnerSpace View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Erik View Post

Where's the evidence that medicines don't work?


I would say it's contained in the sentences "nearly twice as many patients treated with the placebo reported adequate symptom relief as compared to the control group (59 percent vs. 35 percent). Also, on other outcome measures, patients taking the placebo doubled their rates of improvement to a degree roughly equivalent to the effects of the most powerful IBS medications."

 

But I agree about ritual.  I've taken flak in these forums for thinking that (for instance) burn in is purely liturgical and devotional in nature.

post #7 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Erik View Post

Where's the evidence that medicines don't work? Plenty of them are tried and discarded because they cannot demonstrate them to work. That's science.

So is demonstrating that people feel better when simply put through the "medical ritual."

It isn't a far stretch to say that people hear "differences" when put through the audiophile ritual. Apparently, it's the ceremony and tradition that makes the difference.


That has been known for decades, if not centuries with medicine. A good 'bedside manner' will help any 'cure'.  For more information on that and placebos in general read this book

 

     41t7xMPK%2B6L._SL500_AA300_.jpg

post #8 of 33

Is the difference between the placebo group and the "control" group statistically significant?

 

EDIT:  Sorry, I read the study.  Looks like they hit on everything but Quality of Life, which trended toward significance.  Interesting study.


Edited by The Monkey - 12/28/10 at 10:54am
post #9 of 33

The mind is a powerful thing...you believe you are taking pills to get better, therefore you will feel as if you are getting better.  I wonder if humans can train their minds to work similarly without any additional meds or hogwash. cool.gif

post #10 of 33

the patients who took the placebos were told that "placebo pills, something like sugar pills, have been shown in rigorous clinical testing to produce significant mind-body self-healing processes." So, its I don't think that this study would be as meaningful as if the placebo subjects were told "here, take this, it will do absolutely nothing for you but I still want to obtain a subjective assessment every couple weeks."

post #11 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmac03 View Post

the patients who took the placebos were told that "placebo pills, something like sugar pills, have been shown in rigorous clinical testing to produce significant mind-body self-healing processes." So, its I don't think that this study would be as meaningful as if the placebo subjects were told "here, take this, it will do absolutely nothing for you but I still want to obtain a subjective assessment every couple weeks."


Both studies would be meaningful. If you were to run an experiment where you gave two audiophiles the same lovely looking cable and told one it will have a positive benefit on their system and be enthusiastic about it, they are more likely to hear a benefit than the one who you give a cable to and say, try that, it looks nice but will make no difference to the sound, waste of time really, but have a go.

post #12 of 33

Placebo Effect is proven.

post #13 of 33

ok.

post #14 of 33

Placebo is fact, and has been documented in scientific journals for decades.

 

The relation of placebo to stereo or headphones, however, is dubious. "Placebo" refers to a very specific literature of medical literature; but there's not single piece of research relating to sound. 

Some may feel that placebo supports a line of logic that kinds of thinking can be erroneous - this is a misuse of placebo which, again, is a medical term.

post #15 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChipnDalebowl View Post

The mind is a powerful thing...you believe you are taking pills to get better, therefore you will feel as if you are getting better.  I wonder if humans can train their minds to work similarly without any additional meds or hogwash. cool.gif



 We have the power to heal ourselves through meditation ( MIND ), but most of us are too brainwashed to know this.

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