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For those who are planning on getting Sennheiser HD598, DONT - Page 4

post #46 of 105

After trying so many headphones, I still think it is all preference. The more balanced a headphone is, the easier it is to hear everything, but that only matters if you prefer to just hear it. Being impactful and energetic, requires something to be emphasized...  I don't just like to hear my music, I want to feel it. Whether it's from the warmth and breath of the vocals or the hit of the drums.

 

Live music can be a measure of how accurate a headphone is but only in comparison to live recordings...  Most recordings are recorded in a way that is nowhere near what live music sounds like. Such as a guitar completely upfront in your face and a solo on your right side, singer singing to you as if your head was the microphone...  The real life instrument for trance electronic noises doesn't even exist.

 

For me, I break down headphones into genres. Not from least accurate to most accurate, though I do realize what headphones are more balanced than others.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pp312 View Post



It isn't personal taste, you know. Your personal taste may determine what you buy, and that's fine, but personal taste doesn't determine which are the best headphones; their accuracy, neutrality and closeness to the original sound does that. People here sometimes seem to forget that there is an absolute standard, and that's the sound of live music, and it's not good enough to say that we don't quite know what the music sounded like in the studio when it was recorded because we have a pretty good idea, and we have a pretty good idea which phones attempt to reproduce it accurately and which are just boom or screech boxes. Of course, if you listen to electronic music I can't help you, and you're free to choose whatever phones it sounds good on, but you're not free to claim that it all comes down to personal taste. If that were the case, Bose and Dr. Dre would be as good as Sennheiser and Audeze as long as you or others considered them so, but clearly no matter how many people consider them so, they aren't.

 

As for bass, in live music it has much less importance than is commonly imagined. It gains an exaggerated importance in certain genres like reggae and rap, and then it's all important, but serious phones should never be designed to sound good only in certain genres. A good phone is a balanced phone.      

post #47 of 105
I don't buy the genre argument... If the low end of the bass guitar is not coming through, the contrabassoon in the orchestra isn't either and electronica sounds bad.
It's all about the right setup, mac mini (no eq, 96/24 alac thru toslink) to Onkyo sr-876 headphone out in pure audio mode gives full, luscious bass to the hd598.
Same source to usb udac 2 headphone out and the low end falls short, Idem straight off iphone 3gs. This is why I ordered a compact amp for my bedroom.
I'm not a bass freak by any means, but don't like the sterile sound of the hd598 when not properly amped. 50 ohm spec doesn't always guarantee good sound out of small amps, as is proven in this case.
Edited by Bacci - 12/26/10 at 12:56am
post #48 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by wind016 View Post

After trying so many headphones, I still think it is all preference. The more balanced a headphone is, the easier it is to hear everything, but that only matters if you prefer to just hear it. Being impactful and energetic, requires something to be emphasized...  I don't just like to hear my music, I want to feel it. Whether it's from the warmth and breath of the vocals or the hit of the drums.

 

Live music can be a measure of how accurate a headphone is but only in comparison to live recordings...  Most recordings are recorded in a way that is nowhere near what live music sounds like. Such as a guitar completely upfront in your face and a solo on your right side, singer singing to you as if your head was the microphone...  The real life instrument for trance electronic noises doesn't even exist.

 

For me, I break down headphones into genres. Not from least accurate to most accurate, though I do realize what headphones are more balanced than others.

 

 

 

 

I understand what you're saying about electronic music, but I'm sorry to have to tell you that such music will never be a criterion for judging headphones because it's entirely artificial. I'm not saying you shouldn't like it or buy whatever phones reproduce it best; but it's no good for the purpose of judging accuracy, and accuracy is the only real criterion we have for judging headphones. LIve music has to be our standard for reasons surely so obvious I don't have to go through them. However, if you're saying why should we even judge headphones, why make value judgements at all, then I'd have to say why have a forum like this, which is a testament to the whole concept of value judgement based on merit and price. Every second post is of the "What's the best phone for $250?" variety. Of course, some of those will be, "I listen to rap and thrash metal and want my brain turned to mush by huge lashings of bass," and then it's relatively easy for those with similar taste to satisfy the enquirer. But often it's, "What's the most neutral phone for $250? I want something balanced, something I can listen to all day," and then the question's a little harder to answer. It's then that many posters will be using their memory of live music to make suitable suggestions.  

 

Again, I'm not saying you shouldn't like the music you like or the phones you like (though I must say, given your predilection for "feeling" your music I'm surprised you're not a speaker man). I'm just saying that, quite apart from what any of us like, there has to be some kind of rating system based on a repeatable criteria: live music. We'll never absolutely agree on the best phone, or maybe even the 10 best, but we'll certainly agree that Sennheiser beats Bose and Stax beats Skullcandy, however many there may be that actually prefer Skullcandy and consider Stax anaemic.    

post #49 of 105
Thread Starter 

Yeah i ordered the E5 and it's coming in this week. Can't wait to hear the results, the sound's really starting to shine after 140hrs of burn in (i just let the music play all day and night). The higher freq treble is starting to sound clearer than when i first had it. Mids improved a little bit, bass, eh, still not getting there. I'll have to see when I receive the amp

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by leo1006 View Post

i got my HD598 for about 100+ hours and i drive them with the E16 (E7+E9) and foobar2000. i found the sound awesome! When the HD598 out of box, i feel the same as u said, the bass of hd 598 is so weak, but now the bass becomes deep and elastic, and this not all about the amp, i pluge the 598 into my COWON S9 and they sound as good as they are on the E16.


Edited by stevengotremix - 12/26/10 at 7:21am
post #50 of 105

So  pp316 you're saying Fidelity is more important then enjoyment?

 

I'm with wind I just got my Shure SRH750DJ's and I've found them to be amazing in various forms of dance music, I enjoy these more when I'm listening to say The Prodigy cause they reproduce the music better. Note that as far ass accurate Closed headphones these are some of the best to my ears, their harmonics are much more accurate then anything I've heard WHICH is a far better indicator of Fidelity then plain "Look what I made at Headroom" Frequency graphs. If you don't know what I am talking about please refer to This It's spot on what I am talking about and this guy is dedicated to finding the ultimate Live sound headphone.

post #51 of 105


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeGoodman View Post

The E7 will not give you enough power to really show you what these cans can do. It will probably get you halfway there. For a portable amp, you would have to spend $200 or a little more to get the power needed to push these phones to their potential. You can get the Fiio E7 and E9 for $200, and you have a very powerful home amp, a DAC, and an OK  portable amp. The E7 and E9 will also make your other phones wound even better. 

 

Some phones really need an amp, and this is one of them. They sound like crap until you get some good power from a home amp like the E9 or even an old receiver, like RexAeterna mentioned above. A bonus with the receiver is that you get bass and treble knobs, multiple inputs and outputs, speaker outputs, and a built in phono preamp if you ever want a turntable. You can get a decent one for $50 off of craigslist usually.

 

Try some real power out, and tell us what you think.

 

Sound pressure level (SPL) 112 dB
Impedance 50 Ω

 

 

No amp needed here. . . :-/

post #52 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Satellite_6 View Post


 

 

Sound pressure level (SPL) 112 dB
Impedance 50 Ω

 

 

No amp needed here. . . :-/



 



Ah, so headphone amps are only needed to drive high impedance headphones, now I understand :roll: wink.gif
Edited by Bacci - 12/26/10 at 9:33am
post #53 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacci View Post





 

Ah, so headphone amps are only needed to drive high impedance on studio headphones, now I understand everything.


Not really, Denon D2000's benefit from a decent amp and they are 28 or 32 Ohms? Ampping is not all about volume boosting.

post #54 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevengotremix View Post

 

Other headphones I own: Beyerdynamic DT 770, Sennheiser HD 25-1 II, Sennheiser HD 380, Ultrasone PRO 750, Audio Technica ATH-M50

 

Other headphones I own that I would prefer over the HD598: Beyerdynamic DT 770, Sennheiser HD 25-1 II, Sennheiser HD 380, Ultrasone PRO 750

 

 



I think the HD558/598 is the best (read: most musical) Senn has put onto the market for years. Not exactly suitable for team Sssssh-Boooom though... tongue.gif

post #55 of 105

will the

HeadRoom Total BitHead make a big difference when comparing it to a nuforcce icon mobile?

post #56 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoSpecial View Post

So  pp316 you're saying Fidelity is more important then enjoyment?

 

 

 

That's pp312 thanks! smily_headphones1.gif

 

I'm saying that we have to have a yardstick by which to judge headphones and the only sensible yardstick is live music. What you enjoy is another matter, and may in fact change within days. Plenty of people have stated how they hate a certain headphone despite its high reputation, only to post later saying how they came to appreciate it's virtues after being urged to persevere. To some degree what you enjoy is based on what you're used to, but exposure to better phones can change all that and refine your tastes. If fidelity and enjoyment are at odds in your listening, it may be that you need to be exposed to some really good phones for an extended period of time. You might be surprised to discover how seeming restrained the bass on really accurate phones is.     

post #57 of 105

No bass from your Sennheisers you say?

 

Possible solutions:

1. Find someone German to donate his ears to you.   

2. Just stop listening to hip hop music.  It's not really music anyway.  Real people don't listen to that stuff which is only appreciated by the underclass. 

3. Try changing the amp.  Because a good "warm" amp will create + 10dB of low end to get you to Beyer territory. 

4. Oh you tried that already huh?  Try a tube amp.

 

At 20Hz:  Beyer vs. Senn is 10dB (10x less bass)

At 60Hz:  Beyer vs. Senn is 6dB (4x less bass)

It's just so sad how often this is an issue. 

Waste of time, waste of money. 

 

Oh hey, these headphones can be a little tricky to amp. 

Make sure you spend at least $500 on an amp. 

You did?  It's likely a cabling issue.  Buy the DARK cables.  DUH!!!

 

 

compare 2.PNG


Edited by sugarkang - 12/26/10 at 10:53pm
post #58 of 105

^ Lol, that's the post of the year.

post #59 of 105

Double post. Please delete..

 

 


Edited by brendon - 12/27/10 at 12:48am
post #60 of 105

I dont think one needs to spend so much on an amp for such headphones. Rather one should get a nice DAC which can also doubles up as an amp. I tried my friends Denon D5000 directly from my Music Streamer II and I preferred that sound to the sound from my MS II -> Audio GD Compass amp.

 

The Music Streamer II IMO is a very good DAC and its very cheap to boot. IMO it can drive cans like the HD650 pretty good.

 

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