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post #91 of 140

You find DM rough digital sounding? I think its pretty smooth and analog sounding.

post #92 of 140

Yes. I always had the problem especially with string music sounding digital (I felt the tone was very unnatural and grainy. The strings felt more like rope than string tone when plucked). I just couldn't get rid of it whatever I did.

I tried all players (I use jriver with wasapi event style with the most success), usb-coax converter, different soundcards with coax/optical etc etc.

 

On the dacmagic the min filter sounded smoothest, the linear filter the most detailed/correct sounding. But it was either or. Steep sounded too bassy with too little midrange. With the NFB-8 all the "problems" are gone. It sounds really great and I probably need some time to find any problems if I do find any.

 

I wasn't too sure if it was the DAC or amp at first, since the c-2c amplified the problem more than my tube amp, so first I thought it was the c-2c being too analytical and non-musical. Good thing I was wrong on that one!

 

You don't find the DM unrefined compared to the REF5?


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by .Sup View Post

You find DM rough digital sounding? I think its pretty smooth and analog sounding.



 

post #93 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebathingape View Post

Yes. I always had the problem especially with string music sounding digital (I felt the tone was very unnatural and grainy. The strings felt more like rope than string tone when plucked). I just couldn't get rid of it whatever I did.

I tried all players (I use jriver with wasapi event style with the most success), usb-coax converter, different soundcards with coax/optical etc etc.

 

On the dacmagic the min filter sounded smoothest, the linear filter the most detailed/correct sounding. But it was either or. Steep sounded too bassy with too little midrange. With the NFB-8 all the "problems" are gone. It sounds really great and I probably need some time to find any problems if I do find any.

 

I wasn't too sure if it was the DAC or amp at first, since the c-2c amplified the problem more than my tube amp, so first I thought it was the c-2c being too analytical and non-musical. Good thing I was wrong on that one!

 

You don't find the DM unrefined compared to the REF5?


 



 


Yes I do but Ref5 is not as musical and warm with my setup compared to DM with an SS amp. With a tube amp the story is different. But I think any evaluation on the DAC should be made with an SS amp. Congrats on your purchase!

 

post #94 of 140

Thanks

 

I don't think I have seen anyone compare Ref5 and NFB-8 yet but NFB-8 is supposed to be smooth and maybe a little warm as you probably know. I was initially going for an NFB-1ES or NFB-7.

I asked Kingwa and he said I might like the WM8741 more and I think I made the right choice :).
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by .Sup View Post




Yes I do but Ref5 is not as musical and warm with my setup compared to DM with an SS amp. With a tube amp the story is different. But I think any evaluation on the DAC should be made with an SS amp. Congrats on your purchase!

 



 

post #95 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebathingape View Post

Thanks

 

I don't think I have seen anyone compare Ref5 and NFB-8 yet but NFB-8 is supposed to be smooth and maybe a little warm as you probably know. I was initially going for an NFB-1ES or NFB-7.

I asked Kingwa and he said I might like the WM8741 more and I think I made the right choice :).
 



 

I have the Opus dac which fetures the 8741 and its really amazing. Has almost all technicalities REF5 has but its more musical. I prefer it over ref5 with SS amps. If I was to choose one DAC from Audio GD it would be the one you have now.
 

 

post #96 of 140

It is interesting to me that Audio-gd classify both the NFB-8 and NFB-7 as neutral DACs. To me the NFB-8 is in the musical catergory and the NFB-7 neutral.

 

The Reference 7.1 is more neutral than the Reference 7 or Reference 7HE was and is clearly more neutral than the NFB-8.

 

I am not attempting to quantify which DACs are better just differences in sound signature which I am hoping is OK? I have listened to all these DACs extensively on a variety of different stereo systems.

 

Regards

 

Macrog

post #97 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by macrog View Post

It is interesting to me that Audio-gd classify both the NFB-8 and NFB-7 as neutral DACs. To me the NFB-8 is in the musical catergory and the NFB-7 neutral.

 

The Reference 7.1 is more neutral than the Reference 7 or Reference 7HE was and is clearly more neutral than the NFB-8.

 

I am not attempting to quantify which DACs are better just differences in sound signature which I am hoping is OK? I have listened to all these DACs extensively on a variety of different stereo systems.

 

Regards

 

Macrog


Thanks for your impressions macrog

 

post #98 of 140

Judging from comments from Kingwa and the fact he discontinued the NFB-1ES, leaving only the NBF7, it appears he does not like the ESS sound signature. Given that, and the fact the he's always made a separate "musical" line, it implies his preference favors warmth. This worries me to some extent because his description of "neutral" may be skewed (remember everything is relative). I personally do not like warm or cold sounding equipment so not sure what to buy from him when he does come out with a new Master series DAC.

post #99 of 140

Macrog

Would Audio gd classify a muscial dac as one where kingwa has introduced a stage to colour the output rather than what the DAC does on its own accord?  Would love to hear the ref 7.1 some day in my system.

Nice to see some photos bathingape.  Good to hear you are enjoying the new DAC.

 

post #100 of 140

I don't believe that any of the current high end Audio-gd DAC's output stages are intentionally colored sounding. I actually appreciate their differences in sound signature. 

 

Regards

 

Macrog

post #101 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverCans View Post

Judging from comments from Kingwa and the fact he discontinued the NFB-1ES, leaving only the NBF7, it appears he does not like the ESS sound signature. Given that, and the fact the he's always made a separate "musical" line, it implies his preference favors warmth. This worries me to some extent because his description of "neutral" may be skewed (remember everything is relative). I personally do not like warm or cold sounding equipment so not sure what to buy from him when he does come out with a new Master series DAC.



I have the NFB-7 here for a few days and I can say that,in my system, the NFB-7 has plenty of warmth. I heard all the talk of Sabre dacs having an analytical bright sound that could be cold and un-emotional and the NFB-7 is FAR from that.

 

It may change with more burn in and I am still waiting for balanced cables to arrive,so currently using single ended into Roc, but it sounds different than I expected. It has the power,speed,detail, and deep tight bass I expected but absolutely none of the Sabre drawbacks I had been hearing about.

 

I may have to open it up to check that it is the NFB-7 and not a Ref 7 as they both look the same biggrin.gif


Edited by nigeljames - 8/23/11 at 4:25am
post #102 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverCans View Post

Judging from comments from Kingwa and the fact he discontinued the NFB-1ES, leaving only the NBF7, it appears he does not like the ESS sound signature. Given that, and the fact the he's always made a separate "musical" line, it implies his preference favors warmth. This worries me to some extent because his description of "neutral" may be skewed (remember everything is relative). I personally do not like warm or cold sounding equipment so not sure what to buy from him when he does come out with a new Master series DAC.


He's said his personal preference is for neutral, or more descriptively, true to recording, even though he may prefer coloration for certain genres, for example some vocals. In his Chinese audio articles, he gives his opinion that high fidelity is about getting as close to the sound of real life performance as possible, and he uses the memory of real life sound as his benchmark. He also acknowledges that different audio designers and audiophiles have different interpretations of neutral. I'd warn you against reading his Chinese audio articles unless you're prepared to peer into the brain of a truly hardcore audiophile tongue.gif, some of the things he says will be totally indigestible to casual audiophiles. Here's a comparision Kingwa did between one of his pcm1704 dac's and one of his es9018 dac's.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QyP4UnwZqoZh2jNqyJ2ZPE5ez1r3g0GuHFYSRWShO2I/edit?hl=en_US&authkey=CKSQuhI
post #103 of 140
Quote:

It may change with more burn in and I am still waiting for balanced cables to arrive,so currently using single ended into Roc, but it sounds different than I expected. It has the power,speed,detail, and deep tight bass I expected but absolutely none of the Sabre drawbacks I had been hearing about.

 


Are you planning on using the balanced ACSS connections or just balanced interconnects?
 

 

post #104 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom W View Post




Are you planning on using the balanced ACSS connections or just balanced interconnects?
 

 


At the moment I will be using XLR cables only.  

I will probably get an ACSS cable in time to compare but not in any rush.

I understand that the ACSS connection has been changed so I would probably need the old connection for my ROC and the new type for the NFB7. I don't know it Audio-gd sells one like that so it might need to be custom made.

 

post #105 of 140

They sell that type of cable.

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