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Amps that can drive the HiFiMan HE-6 planar headphones - Page 206

post #3076 of 3541
Quote:
Originally Posted by kothganesh View Post
 

When I put it on my head, it kinda hangs loose straight down and not completely around the ear. Now that I think about it, it is probably the headband not creating enough of a "snug" fit. 

 

I posted the message below in the LCD-X forum - I'll be doing the same for my HE6. Cheap and effective. YMMV.

 

I was getting a pressure point right on the top of my bald pointy head - rather unpleasant after about 30 mins. A seat belt pad, cut to the right length, fixed that. Also made the LCD-X a much firmer fit on my skull so I can move my head around a lot more without feeling like my headphones are going to fall into my lap. Also helps a little in distributing the weight more evenly over my noggin.

 

I am using these, cut to suit with a sharp pair of scissors. I'll be getting another for my HE6, which is also a little lacking in the comfort and fit departments for my shiny skull.

 

Link

 

EDIT - should add - this option looks like hell. It wrecks the nice aesthetics of the headphone - that doesn't bother me one bit as I will take comfort over looks any day - but others might not feel the same.


Edited by TonyNewman - 7/9/14 at 11:45pm
post #3077 of 3541
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyNewman View Post
 

 

I posted the message below in the LCD-X forum - I'll be doing the same for my HE6. Cheap and effective. YMMV.

 

I was getting a pressure point right on the top of my bald pointy head - rather unpleasant after about 30 mins. A seat belt pad, cut to the right length, fixed that. Also made the LCD-X a much firmer fit on my skull so I can move my head around a lot more without feeling like my headphones are going to fall into my lap. Also helps a little in distributing the weight more evenly over my noggin.

 

I am using these, cut to suit with a sharp pair of scissors. I'll be getting another for my HE6, which is also a little lacking in the comfort and fit departments for my shiny skull.

 

Link

 

EDIT - should add - this option looks like hell. It wrecks the nice aesthetics of the headphone - that doesn't bother me one bit as I will take comfort over looks any day - but others might not feel the same.

Thanks. My head resemble yours :biggrin:

post #3078 of 3541
Quote:
Originally Posted by kothganesh View Post
 

I second this as well. I don't own the LCD-X but I have the HE 6 on loan and I am very impressed with the detail. What I can't really get over with the 6 is the uncomfortable fit. I had the same experience with the HE 500 and it was deja vu when I put the 6 on my head. In this department, to me its no contest with the 800. Come on Dr. Fang, the fit needs some help! 

 

I understand you had a fit with the fit of HiFiMan cans.  You can improve these cans.  The fit may be re-fitted but that may give Dr. Fang a fit.

 

Just buy replacement ear-pads for the LCD3 (not LCD2!) in leather or synthetic.  They ain't cheap ( a hundred bucks).  They are just oh slightly bigger than the HE-6 ear-pads and they are dark brown instead of black but after you put the HE on with these new ear-pads, you will quickly forget about the cost, the size and the color.  Anyone with a modicum of manual dexterity can replace these ear-pads.  Or you can get your 10-year old to help. 

 

About the weight, I cannot help you with reducing gravity but the improved fit will be good enough to take a lot of the load off your neck.  After you are completely happy with the new fit, please send an e-mail with pictures of your ergonomically improved headphones with Audeze's LCD3 ear-pads clearly marked to Dr. Fang.  Make sure you say Audeze LCD3.  Perhaps you'll get him to do something with the atrocious ear-pads on the HE-500 and HE-6.

 

Oh, by the way, a small flaw:  the noise isolation improved enough you may no longer be able to hear your better half calling.

post #3079 of 3541
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyNewman View Post
 

 

I posted the message below in the LCD-X forum - I'll be doing the same for my HE6. Cheap and effective. YMMV.

 

I was getting a pressure point right on the top of my bald pointy head - rather unpleasant after about 30 mins. A seat belt pad, cut to the right length, fixed that. Also made the LCD-X a much firmer fit on my skull so I can move my head around a lot more without feeling like my headphones are going to fall into my lap. Also helps a little in distributing the weight more evenly over my noggin.

 

I am using these, cut to suit with a sharp pair of scissors. I'll be getting another for my HE6, which is also a little lacking in the comfort and fit departments for my shiny skull.

 

Link

 

EDIT - should add - this option looks like hell. It wrecks the nice aesthetics of the headphone - that doesn't bother me one bit as I will take comfort over looks any day - but others might not feel the same.

 

I am with you! I'll do anything for a better fit.

 

And forget about the look!  We never looked good without the mod anyway.  Don't believe me?  Put on a pair of the Ultrasone 8 or the new Oppo PM-1 and look at your self in the mirror.  Not a fashion statement, but not too bad.  Now put on the LCD-X and look at yourself in the mirror again or better yet, ask your better half's opinion about how you look.  They may mention something about Princess Leia And please do not doubt their judgment:  after all, they married you!

 

And by the way, the fit and comfort of the HE-6 will improve significantly with the LCD3 (not LCD2) ear-pads. 

post #3080 of 3541
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin_Time View Post
 

 

I am with you! I'll do anything for a better fit.

 

And forget about the look!  We never looked good without the mod anyway.  Don't believe me?  Put on a pair of the Ultrasone 8 or the new Oppo PM-1 and look at your self in the mirror.  Not a fashion statement, but not too bad.  Now put on the LCD-X and look at yourself in the mirror again or better yet, ask your better half's opinion about how you look.  They may mention something about Princess Leia And please do not doubt their judgment:  after all, they married you!

 

And by the way, the fit and comfort of the HE-6 will improve significantly with the LCD3 (not LCD2) ear-pads. 

Or you can do like me, keep a pair of K1000 in the drawer, and all other phones, modded or not will look better to your SO.

post #3081 of 3541
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin_Time View Post
 

 

I understand you had a fit with the fit of HiFiMan cans.  You can improve these cans.  The fit may be re-fitted but that may give Dr. Fang a fit.

 

Just buy replacement ear-pads for the LCD3 (not LCD2!) in leather or synthetic.  They ain't cheap ( a hundred bucks).  They are just oh slightly bigger than the HE-6 ear-pads and they are dark brown instead of black but after you put the HE on with these new ear-pads, you will quickly forget about the cost, the size and the color.  Anyone with a modicum of manual dexterity can replace these ear-pads.  Or you can get your 10-year old to help. 

 

About the weight, I cannot help you with reducing gravity but the improved fit will be good enough to take a lot of the load off your neck.  After you are completely happy with the new fit, please send an e-mail with pictures of your ergonomically improved headphones with Audeze's LCD3 ear-pads clearly marked to Dr. Fang.  Make sure you say Audeze LCD3.  Perhaps you'll get him to do something with the atrocious ear-pads on the HE-500 and HE-6.

 

Oh, by the way, a small flaw:  the noise isolation improved enough you may no longer be able to hear your better half calling.

JT...that opening line...precious:biggrin:. Thanks for the detail and the very favorable comparison with the 10 year old in terms of dexterity. I have not laughed this hard in a while. And I do have the LCD 3 so I've got to go see if I have replacement pads. Last, will you guarantee me that I will not hear my better half calling ?:wink:

post #3082 of 3541
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyNewman View Post
 

 

I drive a HE6/HD800/LCD-X from a Vega/Taurus setup - all 3 are hyper-detailed to my ears. Any 'extra' level of detail from the HD800 is very marginal to my (somewhat damaged) ears. All 3 will show up poor quality recordings - perhaps the HD800 more than the others, but not to an extent that I find very noticeable.

 

This might just be the result of my imperfect hearing, but I don't get the 'HD800 is an audio microscope' concept - at least not in comparison to the HE6 and LCD-X. There's not much that the HD800 reveals to me that the HE6 and LCD-X can't. YMMV.

 

Not knocking the HD800 in the above - it's a great headphone - just that I don't think it has a monopoly on great detail when compared with flagship level planars like the HE6/LCD-X.

Yeah, it has a lot to do with your sensitivity to the high frequencies and transients. And the results also depends on the components in your system but some inherent sound of the headphones is persistent.

 

For about two years I listened to various combinations of headphones (Audeze LCD2/LCD3; Grado PS1000/GS1000; HiFiMan HE-500/HE-6; Denon LA7000 ; Fostex TH-900; Sennheiser HD800; Stax 007 Mk1; Ultrasone 8/10...) and a bunch of cables and amps (too many to list) all from only three sources (Oppo 95; PS Audio PerfectWave; SME 30/SME V/Lyra Titan).

 

To my ears, there is no doubt:  the HD-800's sound is generally more detailed than the sounds of the orthodynamic (planar) headphones, which tend to be more cohesive with  smoother transients and thus less detailed. The difference varies with components in the system but it is there qualitatively and consistently. These cans are like my children, I do not play favorites but this does not keep me from recognizing their distinct personalities.    

post #3083 of 3541
Quote:
Originally Posted by snejk View Post
 

Or you can do like me, keep a pair of K1000 in the drawer, and all other phones, modded or not will look better to your SO.

Ha! Ha!

 

BTW, I know a HeadFier who put two pairs of the K1K together to get surround sound!  It bet that looks even better.

post #3084 of 3541
Quote:
Originally Posted by wuwhere View Post
 

 

Its efficiency, the least efficient is class A with class D the most efficient. Class A amps tend to be bigger and heavier mostly due to the heatsinks the transistors are attached to and the big transformer. Class D amps are not liked because some say they don't sound good.

 

http://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/the-truth-about-digital-class-d-amplifiers

 

And one more thing, class A amps are easier to design because they've been around for so long.

 

 mark levinson flagship amp, the no 53 monoblocks is class D amplifiers. audio research high end solid state amplifiers are class D too. if they are well made, they sound as good as the best class A/B amps yet weigh less and more efficients and less heat. the thing with high end class D amps is that it is not that easy to make one that will sound good. they also have low damping factor. we will see more of them in the future in the high end market.

post #3085 of 3541
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin_Time View Post
 

To my ears, there is no doubt:  the HD-800's sound is generally more detailed than the sounds of the orthodynamic (planar) headphones, which tend to be more cohesive with  smoother transients and thus less detailed. The difference varies with components in the system but it is there qualitatively and consistently.

 

My system is at the high end (Auralic Vega/Taurus) but I still can't pick up much difference in the detail between HD800 and LCD-X/HE6. My hearing damage probably plays a part in that, plus some folks are probably just blessed with more sensitive ears than others.

 

I'm getting off topic - but I do wonder if anyone else out there in HeadFi also has trouble spotting the difference in detail between the HD800 and high end planars?

post #3086 of 3541
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyNewman View Post
 

 

My system is at the high end (Auralic Vega/Taurus) but I still can't pick up much difference in the detail between HD800 and LCD-X/HE6. My hearing damage probably plays a part in that, plus some folks are probably just blessed with more sensitive ears than others.

 

I'm getting off topic - but I do wonder if anyone else out there in HeadFi also has trouble spotting the difference in detail between the HD800 and high end planars?

 

More detail is often associated with emphasized treble.  If the headphone (HD800) is brighter or has emphasized treble it's often considered as having more detail. Well, IMO that's not true at all.  You can have great detail retrieval i.e... low level detail, inner detail and micro and macro detail with smooth non emphasized treble (HE-6) when paired with a capable amp which most of us have.  

 

Just because the HE-6 has more weight to the music does not mean it has any less detail.  Again, emphasized treble does not mean more detail...

post #3087 of 3541

The HE-6 properly amped is right up there with the HD800 in detail retrieval. I believe you may be referring to the separation due to the enormous sound stage of the HD800 presentation, that gives an illusion that it is supremely capable at detail retrieval but to me that sounds quite artificial.

post #3088 of 3541
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post
 

 

Just because the HE-6 has more weight to the music does not mean it has any less detail.  Again, emphasized treble does not mean more detail...

 

That's kind of what I am finding. I hear some subtle piece of detail on the HD800, and I check on the HE6/LCD-X to see if I can hear it on the planars. Invariably I can - it just has a different presentation that makes it not quite so obvious as on the HD800, but it is there.

 

Maybe I am splitting hairs here - the difference (at least for me) is that the HD800 makes fine details more noticeable, but they are also present via the LCD-X/HE6.

post #3089 of 3541
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyNewman View Post
 

 

My system is at the high end (Auralic Vega/Taurus) but I still can't pick up much difference in the detail between HD800 and LCD-X/HE6. My hearing damage probably plays a part in that, plus some folks are probably just blessed with more sensitive ears than others.

 

I'm getting off topic - but I do wonder if anyone else out there in HeadFi also has trouble spotting the difference in detail between the HD800 and high end planars?

I would say sensitive ears are sometimes a curse.  Sometimes, hearing too much high frequencies lead to over-sensitivity to sibilance and harshness in the sound..  

 

I do not think loss of some hearing in the high frequencies due to prolonged exposure to high-decibel sound or simply age would completely prevent you from hearing the difference in the ability of headphones to render details in the music, which is just as much a function of transparent sound, quick transients and large sound stage as of high frequencies.

 

What you have to do is to not just HEAR the sound, but to focus on LISTENING to specific areas of the music.  Can you hear different instruments behind the singer or just the singer's voice?  Can you distinctly hear different guitar strings being plucked or are the sounds from different strings smeared together? In a symphony, do you hear the string section as a single sound or do you hear many violins playing together?  Can you hear the horn section in the back? How about the violas on the right?  Can you pick out the sounds of the oboes, clarinets and piccolos or are they completely drowned out? How do the double bass sound?  can you hear distinct bass strings or just the booming of the low frequencies?     

 

The LCD2/3 sound is smooth, unusually cohesive (single driver, no cross over), tightly focused with a very forward image and limited sound stage. The bass is also very strong accompanied by a slightly overripe mid-bass that can often obscure the mid-range.  All these attributes tend to bring you very close to the front image (voice, for example), dominating the transients and inner details and making it difficult for you to pick out individual instruments off axis or in the back stage behind the singer given the relatively small sound stage.  Within the huge sound stage of the HD-800, picking out the details is easier especially since the HD-800 tends to emphasize the transient attacks making them easier to detect.  The bass is also very taut, slightly over-damped with the wrong amp.  This leave the mid-range to be quite clean and transparent.  Finally, the HD-800 is slightly tilted toward the high frequencies leading to  over-etched details, especially with low-quality amps.  Neither voicing is completely right or wrong, just not entirely neutral.  But I listen to music, not sterile sound.  

 

So if you focus on specific areas of the sound that I discussed, you will easily hear the difference in the details between the LCD3 and the HD-800.

post #3090 of 3541
I had a listen to a Head-fi buddies HD800s a few days ago and it confirmed my thought from when I had them (tinny and unnatural sounding with recessed bass, mids and a peak in the treble). Because of that peak they give the impression of more detail.
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