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Amps that can drive the HiFiMan HE-6 planar headphones - Page 142

post #2116 of 4873
Quote:
Originally Posted by brunk View Post
 

 

While I am learning all this stuff myself, there is one thing i know through brute trial and error. Altering a low or high frequency cutoff has definite changes to the speaker as a whole, even something low as 10hz, because you are reducing the hard work a driver must undergo to reproduce those frequencies. 

 

True enough.

 

se

post #2117 of 4873
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Eddy View Post
 

 

Ah, ok. Yeah, if you're only using a 10 ohm resistor across the terminals, then the amp will see an 8.3 ohm load.

 

 

Not really, no. What I'm saying is that in the absence of low frequency resonance, as is the case with orthos, the whole notion of "control the driver in the bass" becomes meaningless. The amp provides an output voltage and the current drawn is a function of the load's impedance (and in the case of orthos that impedance is virtually purely resistive). The driver is on its own and "controls" itself. So what I'm saying is I don't think whatever it is you might be hearing has to do with any sort of "control" issue.

 

 

No problem!

 

se


I am hearing better, as in tighter, more controlled and/or punchier bass from the solid state amps than I get from the Leben (tube) amp with the HE-6. The user Happy Camper also found this with the tube amps he tried compared to SS amps.

 

What the reason is? I still have no clue. 

post #2118 of 4873
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarsHP View Post
 


I am hearing better, as in tighter, more controlled and/or punchier bass from the solid state amps than I get from the Leben (tube) amp with the HE-6. The user Happy Camper also found this with the tube amps he tried compared to SS amps.

 

What the reason is? I still have no clue. 

 

Well it's a bit difficult to get at the root of things when working off subjective descriptions such as "tighter" and "punchier."

 

In the loudspeaker world, a bit of peaking in the bass is often described as such. Sealed enclosures with a Qtc if around 1 or so can achieve this (the old BBC monitor spec aimed for a Qtc of about 1.2 if memory serves). Ported speakers usually have some peaking at the port tuning frequency and people often describe their bass as being tighter and punchier. Whereas sealed enclosures with a Qtc around 0.5 or 0.6 are often subjectively described as "looser."

 

The ironic thing is, what sounds "tighter" and "punchier" are physically less controlled. At a Qtc of 0.5, the resonance is considered "critically damped." There is no ringing and overshoot. The driver resonance is well controlled. Above that, the driver resonance is less and less controlled which accounts for the peaking in the response.

 

However in this case, I can't think of anything that would bring about such peaking in the low frequency response.

 

se

post #2119 of 4873
Quote:
Originally Posted by brunk View Post
 

I'm of the mindset that a power conditioner/strips simply can't "improve" the sound, but they can reduce or eliminate noise in the line. Some deliberately limit the amount of current to alter the sound, think it's "better" which isnt true. If you want it done right, only a dedicated line from the fuse box will do. The main reason to buy these things is to protect your investments, with that mindset your expected outcome will be rational. Just make sure you get one that doesn't limit the current the amp can pull. Typically 10 amps will suffice for all but the most extreme head-fi rigs.

 

While I am learning all this stuff myself, there is one thing i know through brute trial and error. Altering a low or high frequency cutoff has definite changes to the speaker as a whole, even something low as 10hz, because you are reducing the hard work a driver must undergo to reproduce those frequencies. 

 

Agree with this.  I have found that some equipment sounds fine with some filtering but other stuff seems to lose its dynamics.  My low watt tube stuff seems lifeless with filtering conditioners (i have tried more than a few) but just fine with something that balances power.  I use it mostly to protect the equipment, and maybe things sound a little better.  The higher watt stuff i have is fine with filtering and i think it clears things up a little, but i am not sure i hear as much difference as some would claim.  plugging and unplugging everything is a pain so a/b is hard to do right (things need to warm up, etc).  again i want the protection for the equipment and hope for some improvement.  i think there is a debate about improvement, but i am pretty convinced that you can degrade performance with the wrong match.  getting something with a trial period highly recommended.  

post #2120 of 4873
I too have played with this stuff for a while. And the results are small but defiantly an improvement.
There is two kinds of power improvement devices one is a ISO trans and the other an active power regeneration device. As the ISO is good for all equipment , but power regen ,s should not be used for power amps for speakers unless the speakers are small if at all. But all other equipment including your CPU do benefit from them. A ups unless it is a pure signwave type is not suitable for audio but fine for CPU TV etc... Look at it this way almost all equipment we use has an ISO trans in it. So to some degree we all do this. Power regeneration is true clean power but it should not be used with amps for it can not respond to inrush like the outlets connected to you panel. In this hobby there is two kinds of ownership . The first one is how does it sound or improve what we have the second is pure emotion this is pride of ownership . The latter is what drives us mostly whether we admit this or not.. Almost all equipment can be improved from a PSU standpoint as most equipment is made for a Price point. And $50 outlets is the pride for sure . And most have some of this in our systems. For me in my home I must have a ups as the power is off and on way to often. But in NYC no .
Hope this helps or if some here has a question feel free to ask.

Al D
post #2121 of 4873
Quote:
Originally Posted by brunk View Post
 

I'm of the mindset that a power conditioner/strips simply can't "improve" the sound, but they can reduce or eliminate noise in the line. Some deliberately limit the amount of current to alter the sound, think it's "better" which isnt true. If you want it done right, only a dedicated line from the fuse box will do. The main reason to buy these things is to protect your investments, with that mindset your expected outcome will be rational. Just make sure you get one that doesn't limit the current the amp can pull. Typically 10 amps will suffice for all but the most extreme head-fi rigs.

 

brunk emphasizes the two most important AC line issues: protection and sizing (current draw); noise is secondary, but if you hear it, bothersome to intolerable.  If you have quality power from your utility, you are lucky to not know what you have missed. Generally, you should distinguish between AC sine wave quality, brownouts, overvoltages, surges (including transient spikes, an extreme example of which is lightning), and filtering (line noises).  Brownouts, overvoltages, and surges can destroy your equipment: surges quickly, brownouts and overvoltages more slowly, over time. All these problems can originate anywhere upstream from your equipment: internally (your home or apartment or room; e.g.,  turning on/off air conditioning (anything with motors), your microwave, florescent lighting, etc.) and externally (your next door neighbor, your local factory, your utility (transformers, substations, transmission line load switching, localized reactive loads, etc.)).

 

For everything except large current draw amps which are usually well protected, I prefer to use a true UPS with noise and surge suppression. As distinguished from a load following UPS which typically provides suppression, filtering and voltage regulation, a true UPS also uses double inversion: suppressed and filtered outlet AC is inverted to DC which is used to charge the battery pack and DC from the battery pack is inverted to provide "pure" isolated sine wave AC to your equipment. The problem with this solution is that it starts out expensive and quickly gets more expensive. If cautious at all, at least use surge suppression. Then add voltage regulation/power conditioning (often not very expensive on a small scale; e.g., isolation transformers - which frequently include surge suppression and filtering), especially if you live in an area with brownouts (overvoltages are far less common). If you have noise, find out if it is local and eliminate it if possible; otherwise, try filtering. Finally, or should I say first, turn off and even disconnect your equipment when not in use.


Edited by rlawli - 11/7/13 at 5:14am
post #2122 of 4873
post #2123 of 4873
All bull. The light bulb gets brighter due the higher voltage output of the ISO transformer that's all. To imply the light gets brighter due to removing noise in the line is just an insult to ones intelligence .

Who is Richard grey anyway..???
post #2124 of 4873
Rlawli. Most of what you say is true but there is some misconceptions you are saying. As the basis for all ups are correct the final output is of two kinds .
Most commen is a stepped signwave this means they use diodes and quickly turn on off a of to a symulate a signwave . It is horrible for any audio application . But ok for CPU,s . Even video is effected by this method. Next is what some call a purée ups . This is a marked name and there is no real name but what is done is transisters do the switching. And a much improved sign wave is supplied . How ever both have harmonics and generally not suitable for use in high end equipment but maybe a trade off if your utility co has numerous spikes or power outages as in my house in NC.

Now what can you use and expect an improvement in your sound. Power regeneration or ISO trans are the only methods to mabe improve your equipment and yes they are expensive . Ps audio makes what I think is the best for the buck and great support and has features no one else has...

As for surge suppression strips they do nothing to limit power AT all . They mostly have a diod or diac to shunt the power when it reaches a set voltage above normal. Most devices work this way And when the spike occurs the strip is cooked but the hope is it saves your equipment.

As for amps for speakers meaning large . The general rule is plug into the wall or ISO , as even the best power regen,s might not react fast enough.

Though in my testes they have no ill effect in this... I am not meaning to offend and I have learned much in these forums from many.

But this is one of my companies install practices and what I have come to learn over the years. And as far as front to headphones amps ISO or power reg does sound more focused.

Al D
post #2125 of 4873

" Though in my testes they have no ill effect in this. "

 

:eek::eek:

post #2126 of 4873
Wow I misspelled the word your so special.

Do not read what i write and do not learn either follow all the roderick that gets posted here . Just because this is a special membership club of witch i am not part of doesn't mean i cannot post . Some special member says is purple with no basis in there statement and the followers all repeat.

AL D
post #2127 of 4873

TEST PILOT AS IN TEST DUMMY    ......

post #2128 of 4873

:wink_face: TGIF everyone and can we please get back on topic?

post #2129 of 4873
Yes sir.
post #2130 of 4873

Hey guys, just wondering if anyone knows how well a Rega Brio-R and Rega DAC would sound with the HE-6? I have these in my speaker setup with Monitor Audio RX-6 speakers but they don't get much use anymore so I'm considering using them with a set of HE-6's. I was considering getting a Burson Soloist and LCD-2 combo from www.addictedtoaudio.com.au but if the HE-6's out of the Rega gear will out class the LCD-2 combo i would be better off financially and sound quality wise with the HE-6. Thanks :)

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