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Amps that can drive the HiFiMan HE-6 planar headphones - Page 140

post #2086 of 4872

Just for the record, in case anyone is wondering about this tiny amp..

this SMSL SA-50 T-amp, 50w x 2, 2 by 4 inches, about usd70,

powers the HE-6 cleanly, sounds effortless..v impressed...via my NBF10.32 on high gain.

I was transfixed on vocals, something that didnt happen so far on the HE-6. :P

( its easy on the hd650 for vocals )

 

 

 

I didnt hear any hiss or humm on the HE-6 or LCD2,

but slight hiss on the D7k... my initial feedback. 

post #2087 of 4872

I'm sorry for being the Curious George of this thread, but I have another question in regard to driving HE-6 with speaker amps.

 

1. When listening to headphones via headphone amps, one thing to consider is the output impedance of the amp in relation to the headphone's load impedance, i.e. damping factor. While the actual formula is complicated, a general rule of thumb is that headphone's load impedance divided by the amp's output impedance should be greater than 8, or there could be distortion in sound due to poor damping factor. This explains why high-impedance headphones generally perform better with OTL tube amps (which have high output impedance) compared to low impedance headphones. The HE-6 is 50 ohms, so in theory, the amp's output impedance should be less than 50/8 = 6.25 ohm.

 

But what about speaker amps?

 

While many headphone amp companies provide info on output impedance, I'm not so sure about speaker amps. I have several theories, so I hope an expert could clarify things regarding this matter.

 

Theory #1) Due to the different nature of speakers and speaker amps, damping factor is not an issue at all. Either a completely different formula is implemented for speakers, or poor damping factor doesn't cause distortions.

 

Theory #2) Since speakers generally have lower impedance (4-8 ohms) than headphones, most speaker amps are designed to have a very low output impedance (less than 1 ohm). Therefore, driving headphones with speaker amps will almost always result in a sufficient damping factor.

 

Theory #3) Speaker amps can have high output impedance, especially if they are tube amps (tube headphone amps have higher output impedance than solid-state headphone amps). Therefore, with a low impedance headphone like HE-6, it is more beneficial to use a solid state amp with low output impedance, purely in terms of damping factor.

 

Of course, all these theories could be wrong. Anyone who can explain things correctly will be much appreciated.

 

2. Also, unlike many folks out there, I'm using an HE-Adapter between the HE-6 and my speaker amp. In this case, will different rules apply in terms of output impedance and damping factor, compared to connecting the HE-6 directly to speaker amp? Or is there theoretically no difference in output impedance and damping factor whether I use a HE-Adapter or not?

post #2088 of 4872
Quote:
Originally Posted by songmic View Post
 

I'm sorry for being the Curious George of this thread, but I have another question in regard to driving HE-6 with speaker amps.

 

1. When listening to headphones via headphone amps, one thing to consider is the output impedance of the amp in relation to the headphone's load impedance, i.e. damping factor. While the actual formula is complicated, a general rule of thumb is that headphone's load impedance divided by the amp's output impedance should be greater than 8, or there could be distortion in sound due to poor damping factor. This explains why high-impedance headphones generally perform better with OTL tube amps (which have high output impedance) compared to low impedance headphones. The HE-6 is 50 ohms, so in theory, the amp's output impedance should be less than 50/8 = 6.25 ohm.

 

But what about speaker amps?

 

While many headphone amp companies provide info on output impedance, I'm not so sure about speaker amps. I have several theories, so I hope an expert could clarify things regarding this matter.

 

Theory #1) Due to the different nature of speakers and speaker amps, damping factor is not an issue at all. Either a completely different formula is implemented for speakers, or poor damping factor doesn't cause distortions.

 

Theory #2) Since speakers generally have lower impedance (4-8 ohms) than headphones, most speaker amps are designed to have a very low output impedance (less than 1 ohm). Therefore, driving headphones with speaker amps will almost always result in a sufficient damping factor.

 

Theory #3) Speaker amps can have high output impedance, especially if they are tube amps (tube headphone amps have higher output impedance than solid-state headphone amps). Therefore, with a low impedance headphone like HE-6, it is more beneficial to use a solid state amp with low output impedance, purely in terms of damping factor.

 

Of course, all these theories could be wrong. Anyone who can explain things correctly will be much appreciated.

 

2. Also, unlike many folks out there, I'm using an HE-Adapter between the HE-6 and my speaker amp. In this case, will different rules apply in terms of output impedance and damping factor, compared to connecting the HE-6 directly to speaker amp? Or is there theoretically no difference in output impedance and damping factor whether I use a HE-Adapter or not?

 

 

Read from this post: http://www.head-fi.org/t/529873/amps-that-can-drive-the-hifiman-he-6-planar-headphones/1605#post_9688482

post #2089 of 4872

 

Aha! Thanks :D

post #2090 of 4872

Well - Steve Eddy's post shortly after is much more informative:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/529873/amps-that-can-drive-the-hifiman-he-6-planar-headphones/1605#post_9689660

 

However - my impression driving HE-6 via the Leben vs. the solid state amps I have, tells me that the SS amps have more grip in the bass than the tube amp...


Edited by LarsHP - 11/5/13 at 4:56am
post #2091 of 4872
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarsHP View Post

Well - Steve Eddy's post shortly after is much more informative:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/529873/amps-that-can-drive-the-hifiman-he-6-planar-headphones/1605#post_9689660

However - my impression driving HE-6 via the Leben vs. the solid state amps I have, tells me that the SS amps have more grip in the bass than the tube amp...
That's what I came away with as well. I was on a quest to find a quality tube amp but the obstacles were getting in the way. That's not to say there isn't options in tubes as many members run them from one, but it's a bit more work to tweak them than pulling a SS amp out of mothballs and getting that grip.
post #2092 of 4872
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent One View Post

rolleyes.gif  I know what you're saying. At this hour, the gears in my head are grinding over.... furniture options and room configs. Pulled a few more audio accessories out of storage last hour. It's gonna be a long night.
Like setting up for a holiday. Done lovingly with reverence.
post #2093 of 4872
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent One View Post
 

 

:rolleyes: I know what you're saying. At this hour, the gears in my head are grinding over.... furniture options and room configs. Pulled a few more audio accessories out of storage last hour. It's gonna be a long night.

Hehe, can't wait to see what you pulled out from storage, you always have some sort of surprise! 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by songmic View Post
 

I'm sorry for being the Curious George of this thread, but I have another question in regard to driving HE-6 with speaker amps.

 

1. When listening to headphones via headphone amps, one thing to consider is the output impedance of the amp in relation to the headphone's load impedance, i.e. damping factor. While the actual formula is complicated, a general rule of thumb is that headphone's load impedance divided by the amp's output impedance should be greater than 8, or there could be distortion in sound due to poor damping factor. This explains why high-impedance headphones generally perform better with OTL tube amps (which have high output impedance) compared to low impedance headphones. The HE-6 is 50 ohms, so in theory, the amp's output impedance should be less than 50/8 = 6.25 ohm.

 

But what about speaker amps?

 

While many headphone amp companies provide info on output impedance, I'm not so sure about speaker amps. I have several theories, so I hope an expert could clarify things regarding this matter.

 

Theory #1) Due to the different nature of speakers and speaker amps, damping factor is not an issue at all. Either a completely different formula is implemented for speakers, or poor damping factor doesn't cause distortions.

 

Theory #2) Since speakers generally have lower impedance (4-8 ohms) than headphones, most speaker amps are designed to have a very low output impedance (less than 1 ohm). Therefore, driving headphones with speaker amps will almost always result in a sufficient damping factor.

 

Theory #3) Speaker amps can have high output impedance, especially if they are tube amps (tube headphone amps have higher output impedance than solid-state headphone amps). Therefore, with a low impedance headphone like HE-6, it is more beneficial to use a solid state amp with low output impedance, purely in terms of damping factor.

 

Of course, all these theories could be wrong. Anyone who can explain things correctly will be much appreciated.

 

2. Also, unlike many folks out there, I'm using an HE-Adapter between the HE-6 and my speaker amp. In this case, will different rules apply in terms of output impedance and damping factor, compared to connecting the HE-6 directly to speaker amp? Or is there theoretically no difference in output impedance and damping factor whether I use a HE-Adapter or not?

First bold - The vast majority of speaker amps have an output impedance under 1 ohm, its headphone amps that have such variances in this area. Theory #3 has already been discussed shortly before me, so I'll leave that alone. Second bold - The difference in using the HE-adapter is more a function to both kill off excess power to protect the HE-6, or to drop the impedance to protect tube amps from the HE-6. If you're diligent, it's perfectly fine to forego the box with a SS amp, if you have no hiss and satisfactory volume control then there's no reason to use it, IMO. It is required for tube amps however.

post #2094 of 4872

I thought orthos weren't affected by output impedence?? Or at least not nearly to the degree of dynamics...? Also-can someone explain why I would need resistors for a tube speaker amp (Leviathan w/8ishW@8ohms) for the HE6? Sorry for the questions, but the HE6 threads are about the only ones around that I haven't gleaned to the bone for info...

 

-Daniel

post #2095 of 4872
Quote:
Originally Posted by BournePerfect View Post
 

I thought orthos weren't affected by output impedence?? Or at least not nearly to the degree of dynamics...? Also-can someone explain why I would need resistors for a tube speaker amp (Leviathan w/8ishW@8ohms) for the HE6? Sorry for the questions, but the HE6 threads are about the only ones around that I haven't gleaned to the bone for info...

 

-Daniel

It's to protect the tube amp's transformers. You can also just attach some to the speaker binding posts. I believe there are some pics in the thread gallery of this.

 

Here's one


Edited by brunk - 11/5/13 at 10:32am
post #2096 of 4872
Quote:
Originally Posted by brunk View Post
 
 

It's to protect the tube amp's transformers. You can also just attach some to the speaker binding posts. I believe there are some pics in the thread gallery of this.

 

Here's one

 

 

I may have a preliminary pix of only part of the rig later this evening. A full shot of the full rig likely won't happen until I move; simply no room inside the suite. Well, I could sit all the cycling gear & accessories outside, as they're taking up the most free space. 

 

But then... :blink:

 

NONE of it would be there in the morning. :rolleyes:

 

Last night, I stormed the storage facility feeling like a pirate! I thundered and plundered and eventually plucked a few Maple platforms, Brass footers, a DVD player, A dozen CDs, LCD monitor and a few other small audio related items. 

 

The Maple platforms are gonna be a tight fight! I don't like my components all on top of each other, we like :normal_smile :space. I have a 48" rack with 45" of Maple. I got it handled, though, if only because the shoe-horn :tongue_smile: has a handle.

 

I bought my own HE-Adapter out of convenience. Looking back, I want my money back! :mad: Because I aim to replace the resistors anyway, why pay someone to replace them inside the box when I could just buy 'em and slap 'em onto the speaker posts.

 

The info I seek next is admittedly in this thread... buried not doubt and it's lunch time in Cali. So...... I'm guessing although the box has two different values to protect against two different types of failures, I'll only need one value, yeah? Series or parallel? I have monos @ 40wpc (7.5W/50 Ohms?), so what's my optimum value for the resistor? Lastly, I want to get the best-of-the-best in resistors. Or whatever I can afford by eating soup for one.:biggrin: Based on rep, Dueland, Mills and so on...


Edited by Silent One - 11/5/13 at 12:04pm
post #2097 of 4872
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent One View Post
 

 

I may have a preliminary pix of only part of the rig later this evening. A full shot of the full rig likely won't happen until I move; simply no room inside the suite. Well, I could sit all the cycling gear & accessories outside, as they're taking up the most free space. 

 

But then... :blink:

 

NONE of it would be there in the morning. :rolleyes:

 

Last night, I stormed the storage facility feeling like a pirate! I thundered and plundered and eventually plucked a few Maple platforms, Brass footers, a DVD player, A dozen CDs, LCD monitor and a few other small audio related items. 

 

The Maple platforms are gonna be a tight fight! I don't like my components all on top of each other, we like :normal_smile :space. I have a 48" rack with 45" of Maple. I got it handled, though, if only because the shoe-horn :tongue_smile: has a handle.

 

I bought my own HE-Adapter out of convenience. Looking back, I want my money back! :mad: Because I aim to replace the resistors anyway, why pay someone to replace them inside the box when I could just buy 'em and slap 'em onto the speaker posts.

 

The info I seek next is admittedly in this thread... buried not doubt and it's lunch time in Cali. So...... I'm guessing although the box has two different values to protect against two different types of failures, I'll only need one value, yeah? Series or parallel? I have monos @ 40wpc (7.5W/50 Ohms?), so what's my optimum value for the resistor? Lastly, I want to get the best-of-the-best in resistors. Or whatever I can afford by eating soup for one.:biggrin: Based on rep, Dueland, Mills and so on...

Cool, looking forward to the shots!

 

I'll have to double check exactly what type and value resistor you need. If you're willing to part with cash for fancy resistors, Dueland's is probably what you want. However, i do encourage you to buy some average cement resistors and A/B the two. Perhaps get a friend nearby to install them so you don't know which is which beforehand :)

post #2098 of 4872
Quote:
Originally Posted by brunk View Post
 
 

Cool, looking forward to the shots!

 

I'll have to double check exactly what type and value resistor you need. If you're willing to part with cash for fancy resistors, Dueland's is probably what you want. However, i do encourage you to buy some average cement resistors and A/B the two. Perhaps get a friend nearby to install them so you don't know which is which beforehand :)

 

Resistors? Hardwiring?? Wooden audio rack?! That ain't the half of it, :thumb:we got bigger Catfish in the deep-fryer:

 

- Still unable to remember password for music server

- Cannot locate my MMF-7 from the move.

 

Not a whole lot to evaluate with my main two sources unavailable. If push comes to shove, I will temporarily shove all of it back into storage.

post #2099 of 4872
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent One View Post
 

 

Resistors? Hardwiring?? Wooden audio rack?! That ain't the half of it, :thumb:we got bigger Catfish in the deep-fryer:

 

- Still unable to remember password for music server

- Cannot locate my MMF-7 from the move.

 

Not a whole lot to evaluate with my main two sources unavailable. If push comes to shove, I will temporarily shove all of it back into storage.

 

That catfish in the deep-fryer sure sounds good..:biggrin:

post #2100 of 4872

any thoughts  on this

 

 I have a denon 5805 ci rec in my office setup as surround system and additional rooms as well. but since it is a ten channel amp and I have a spare stereo set I was thinking of trying the HE6  . the amps are really sweet with speakers. anyone try this amp. each zone is 175 rms into 8 ohms .  I would just use the preamp and amp with external dacs...

 

 AL D

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