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Millett or M3 or PPA....??????

post #1 of 5
12/20/10 at 11:28am
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Last year I built a Millett minimax as a gift for mt step mom who is loosing her eye sight and loves listening to music. I did not have a chance to really listen to it, and when I did it was through a crappy set of sonys that I used for setting it up ( cause i didnt care if i blew them up, a "DJ style 500 something or another" ) or her set of bose cans. I thought it was a very good amp, but I really did not get a good listen to it till last weekend.

 

I travelled down to visit, and took along my M50's to see how it sounded, in a word, fantastic. First time I have ever had a tingle run down My neck listening to a track in a long, long time. And that was with a cheep, albeit well respacted, set of cans.

 

So, now I just have to build one for myself, but I am wondering if an M3 or a PPA would also be a good choise. honestly I would like to build all of them and a few others as well, but that gets expencive, so now I am leaning twards either a Millett Mosfet Max or the much cheaper to build AMB M3, I have heard that both are very good and about on par with eachother.  From what I understand, please correct me if I am wrong, the M3 and mosfet variant of the millett are somewhat common in the output stage.

 

I plan to buy a higher quality set of cans in the near future also, and am leaning twards either a set of AKG701's, HD650's or possibly the HF 5, not sure yet, but I am fairly confident that either of these amps will do the job.

 

I was hoping to get some feed back from those who have used one of more of these amps, if so which one was prefered and why, is there a combo of amp>can that really shines for you. I listen mostly to rock or alternative, love acoustic guitar tracks and such, and sometimes the evil "crank up the bass" monster comes out too...........

 

Thanks, Joe

 

 

 

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post #2 of 5
12/20/10 at 12:15pm

Thank you for the kind words about the MiniMAX.  However, I'm not sure an M3 is much cheaper than an MOSFET-MAX.  This is not a criticism, but MAX BOM's were done much later than most of the BOM's that were done back when the M3 came out.  It was not customary in the DIY community back then to include things such as casework and hardware.  Plus, the power supply is on the PCB for the MOSFET-MAX.  This is not the case with the M3 or PPA.  The MOSFET-MAX BOM attempts to capture every single thing you need to build and operate the amp - sort of apples and oranges to compare total prices under that scenario.

 

Also, while the general scheme of the MOSFET-MAX's buffer was based on a schematic by AMB, the bulk of the buffer design was made by cetoole and prototyped by NeilR.  AMB later added the JFET input mod.  Finally, the power supply, relay-delay, and PCB layout design are all cetoole on the MOSFET-MAX, while the tube circuit still uses the original Pete Millett design, bequethed to the community with his blessing. (The tube CCS circuit is an improvement - also by cetoole).  The case design is mine.  You can see that a lot of people had a hand in the MOSFET-MAX.

 

The M3 was jointly designed by AMB and Morsel, but the inspiration for the amp originated with Sheldon Stokes' SDS Labs Headphone Amplifier:

http://gilmore2.chem.northwestern.edu/projects/showfile.php?file=stokes_prj.htm

AMB describes this himself in the "History" section of the AMB laboratories M3 website.wink.gif


Edited by tomb - 12/20/10 at 12:17pm
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post #3 of 5
12/20/10 at 3:53pm
Thread Starter 



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomb View Post

Thank you for the kind words about the MiniMAX.  However, I'm not sure an M3 is much cheaper than an MOSFET-MAX.  This is not a criticism, but MAX BOM's were done much later than most of the BOM's that were done back when the M3 came out.  It was not customary in the DIY community back then to include things such as casework and hardware.  Plus, the power supply is on the PCB for the MOSFET-MAX.  This is not the case with the M3 or PPA.  The MOSFET-MAX BOM attempts to capture every single thing you need to build and operate the amp - sort of apples and oranges to compare total prices under that scenario.

 

Also, while the general scheme of the MOSFET-MAX's buffer was based on a schematic by AMB, the bulk of the buffer design was made by cetoole and prototyped by NeilR.  AMB later added the JFET input mod.  Finally, the power supply, relay-delay, and PCB layout design are all cetoole on the MOSFET-MAX, while the tube circuit still uses the original Pete Millett design, bequethed to the community with his blessing. (The tube CCS circuit is an improvement - also by cetoole).  The case design is mine.  You can see that a lot of people had a hand in the MOSFET-MAX.

 

The M3 was jointly designed by AMB and Morsel, but the inspiration for the amp originated with Sheldon Stokes' SDS Labs Headphone Amplifier:

http://gilmore2.chem.northwestern.edu/projects/showfile.php?file=stokes_prj.htm

AMB describes this himself in the "History" section of the AMB laboratories M3 website.wink.gif

Responce to the first paragraph....very good point, I should have thought it through a little bit before I made such a ststement! The MiniMax that I built was from one of the excellent kits that are now (or were) offered, and you are quite correct, while that kit is more $$$ than the BOM as listed for the M3, the M3 does not include a case or hardware etc, and then the power suply is an aditional cost.....

 

I really am leaning twards the mosfet max, not that i wouldn't love to build another mini, just that i would like to do something different, and I do love the millett sound. And the more I try to make up my mind, the more I am talking myself into getting two kits , both the hybrid and a solid state, now for the solid state there are several choises, the M3, the PPA, the CK²III etc, and trying to figure out witch one of those would be "best" is subjective, The B22 would probly fit that bill a lot better, but it is much, much more of an investment then the others.

Think I will just flip a coin on that choice:)

 

 



 

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post #4 of 5
12/22/10 at 6:53am

Hello,

 

While I can't comment on what would be best for you, I can give you a bit of my experience. 

I have a PPA v2 and I like it very much. I have opa627 in all three channels, cerafines on the power rail, orange drops on the outputs, and have boosted the bias and decreased the gain to work with my Grado 320i's I built this amp with parts and suggestions off of tangent's site. It was the second thing I ever built and definitely a different experience from a cmoy. I think I spent over $400 building the PPA and the STEPS, it's a little hard to figure out because I had to make more than one order to the supply houses when I realized that I didn't have all the parts after all. The sound is very clear and detailed and the amp has enough power to get the most out of my low impedance Grados. I'm waiting for an order from digikey to start trying different op amps. I'm curious to see what the effect will be. The combination of grados and a ppa can be fatiguing after listening for an extended time. I'm hoping that the new op amps will tame a bit of the brightness without muddying up the sound.

The only other amp I have to compare the PPA to is the Starving Student that I built from a Beezar kit. I love the tube mids, but it doesn't seem like the Starving Student has the low end grunt to really slam the grados. It does do much better when paired with an old set of Senn HD280s. This is my 'friend rig' that I've been using to convert the unwashed. It works. I'm assuming that the Starving Student needs higher impedance cans to really shine. I wonder if my grados are trying to suck too much current through the mosfets, causing them to limit themselves.

I'm looking to build a minimax myself in the new year to try and get the best of tubes and solid state. I've also looked at the CKIII and I'm pretty sure you can build a basic one of those for around $250. Keep cavalli audio in mind, he has quite a few nice designs. Definitely things that I'm looking to build in the future.

I would like to say that the kit I got from Beezar was hands down the best packaged, assembled, and the most complete kit that I have ever found anywhere in anyway for anything. I would recommend the Beezar kits to anyone. Period. I am an uber statisfied customer.

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post #5 of 5
12/22/10 at 7:54am
IMO, the MOSFET-MAX is a better match for Grados while the miniMax is a better match for the Sennheisers.

There are so many good designs out there, it can be difficult to narrow down to just one. You kind of have to take a measured leap of faith and build one to see where it takes you. You never know which design might strike the right chord.
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