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Quad ESL57 frustrations. - Page 2

post #16 of 60
Thread Starter 

I just went and picked up 3 esl57 bass panels I bought from Ebay months ago. I installed one it is kind of rough. I will have to eventually replace dust covers and somehow get the frames  so they are not bowed in the middles. Seller scammed on the other two they are rougher and nothing like pictured. I don't know why but the new panel came on quickly it been close to an hour and the other bass and treble are not up to speed. I have new EHT boards coming and will do more reading. Enough info is out there. Thinking it may turn into a long hobby though.

 

I replaces the dust covers on the treble panel a few months ago but can't find the sheet that I marked where the 2 blue and 2 brown wires go to the transformer. I did mark them left and right according to what side of the transformer I snipped them from. I wonder if I may have got them backwards because there seemed to be more treble coming out of the back of the speaker than the front.  Anyone know if that would make any sense? Thanks

 


Edited by jaycalgary - 12/20/10 at 10:05pm
post #17 of 60
Thread Starter 

I just bought a pair of Decca London Tweeters http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/223684-decca_london_tweeters/

I am guessing that is a good price but don't really know what they are actually worth. Can I use these with just one pair of

ESL-57's or do they have to be stacked? I think some day I will have a stacked pair but the project will take some time. I

still have to rebuild one tweeter panel in the quads. I bought the 6um mylar with elvamide from Ebay. They have 12um

mylar the seller said is good for bass panels. I didn't buy because it says it should be PVC saran from the diy repair sites

I have seen. This is a project that is going to take some time though. I didn't know about Decca tweeters before this thread

but when I saw them for sale I figured it would be fairly hard to find them when you want a pair.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

post #18 of 60

I had two of them per side on triple stacked esl57's.

Was absolutely great.

 

I would think that for the best imaging, you really

need to put them in the middle of 2 x esl57's.

 

and the ribbon tweeters definitely need their

own amplifier and are not easy to drive.

post #19 of 60

Best 57s are a single pair elevated a bit, tilted forward but not coupled to the stand with a proper woofer as low fill IMO. Their impedance isn't an issue as it quite high in the bass and doesn't drop to 2 ohms until the very top where only a few Watts are needed. It's the capacitance that makes lesser amps unstable. As mentioned, leaving them on for a while will be needed to determine whether it's repaired or not but a few days will do and they're not changing after a week or 2. If a pair finally matched after 6 mo., it's because the loud one came down.wink_face.gif

 

That box speaker may be quite good (especially if you like single ended tube amps, I don't) but a controlled resonance device with an elaborate x-over like that isn't in the same league as a 57 and will have about 10 times the distortion. The tweeters used are poor facsimiles of the quad tweeter but then most haven't heard the 57 setup optimally or have good enough sources to notice. It's not the first to try and mimic a 57. Any one heard of Dahlquist?

 

Quads are are relatively linear from 45hz to to what you can hear on top and play plenty loud and have great bass character if you know what you're doing. They're actually a little bass heavy in their original floor config. http://www.nutshellhifi.com/MLS/MLS2.html  The biggest problem with volume is having a good enough amp and source to display it's excellent dynamics without over doing it. Of course that's relatively near field with a listening position inside 10'. They play fine in a big space. You just can't set it up to try and drive the entire volume..


Edited by goodvibes - 3/29/11 at 4:08pm
post #20 of 60
Thread Starter 

I been looking at other adds the dealer that sold me the Decca ribbons from. He has a pair of stacked Mark Levinson clones for sale. First I thought it would be too much

but getting the itch. I asked about them but he probably won't be around for a while to answer. The serial numbers are pretty high I think getting near the end of production.

Probably would be like $3k by the time they were shipped. I have a pair now and know what they are like inside and that part scares me. I still wouldn't get to use them for

a fairly long time but probably would be great when I get to as long as they are Ok. Value wise does it look like would be a good deal? Sound wise they must be on a really high level

I am guessing even by todays standards. http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/223750-stacked_quad_esl57s/


Edited by jaycalgary - 3/29/11 at 9:10pm
post #21 of 60

I wouldn't buy them for stacking unless you absolutely need them to play a bit louder. A single pair really is what they're about. I also wouldn't bother unless your very sure about condition and were going to use them. The pair you have now should serve you well when working. They're not Wilsons. I don't understand wanting to make them something they're not by souping them up with ribbons or stacking which just makes them less coordinated in general. Levinson is not an engineer. Just a tweak and entrepreneur that hired some good people early on like John Curl. Nothing wrong with that but the mistique is bit much.

post #22 of 60

Can't find a picture with the ribbon tweeters installed.

Here is the triple stack, it sure was a great rock and roll system.

http://gilmore.chem.northwestern.edu/bfp2.jpg

the helmholz resonator filled in everything under 40 hz.

Picture from about 1978

post #23 of 60

What did you drive them with?

post #24 of 60

That particular amplifier was a hitachi complementary vfet amp.

I think it was 200 watts per channel. I had various amplifiers

over the years. My favorite was a triple stack of levinson pure

class A 18 watt amps. The heat generated was unbelievable.

post #25 of 60



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycalgary View Post

I just went and picked up 3 esl57 bass panels I bought from Ebay months ago. I installed one it is kind of rough. I will have to eventually replace dust covers and somehow get the frames  so they are not bowed in the middles. Seller scammed on the other two they are rougher and nothing like pictured. I don't know why but the new panel came on quickly it been close to an hour and the other bass and treble are not up to speed. I have new EHT boards coming and will do more reading. Enough info is out there. Thinking it may turn into a long hobby though.

 

I replaces the dust covers on the treble panel a few months ago but can't find the sheet that I marked where the 2 blue and 2 brown wires go to the transformer. I did mark them left and right according to what side of the transformer I snipped them from. I wonder if I may have got them backwards because there seemed to be more treble coming out of the back of the speaker than the front.  Anyone know if that would make any sense? Thanks

Can't have more coming out the back. The panel itself is equal front and back and there's extra rear felt damping behind the tweeter panel to give them their characteristic and desirable cardiod pattern. If there. there should be considerably less from the back. If not find some damping. The looser rear panel damping os to keep the bass more linear by cancelling an upper bass resonance.



 

 


Edited by goodvibes - 4/5/11 at 4:42pm
post #26 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henerenry View Post

The varying impedance load is a killer for many amps.

 

Not alot of amps can handle a load that varies between 2-20ohms.

 

The quads will produce sound on a amp that cant handle the load, BUT it will roll off the frequency extremes, leading them to sound crap. People do make replacement treble panels that help keep a more constant less demanding treble load.


Yes, these are very reactive speakers.  Some place on the net there is an old page that mentions the better '57-driving amps; however, most are vintage.  Also, most tube amp mfrs do know whether their amps can handle the 57's reactive loads.

 

post #27 of 60

I've yet to find a tube amp that had issue with 57s. They were sold with 12 wattt Leaks, Quad IIs, and Dynaco ST-70s in the 50s.

post #28 of 60
All these amps are on the list i looked at. Generally, the problem was with older SS gear, although the orignal Naim Nait was a good pairing I am told. This is all second-hand and from memory.
post #29 of 60

Older unstable solid state is correct but early Naim, Quad, luxman, levinson, bedini etc and any tube amp had no issue. They never lost bass due to an amp as the impedance is high in the bass (above 16 ohms to 200hz) and low in the extreme treble. It doesn't drop below 4 ohms until almost 15k where little energy is needed. Any decent solid state amp can drive that impedance and using the 4ohm tap on a tube amp works great. and will get you a flat responce between 45hz and 15k. Modern amps will be flat out to beyond audible. The issue is the capacitive nature of the load on less than stellar solid state amps. This can be exacerbated by esoteric low inductance cables. Transformer coupled tube amps have no issues here.

Folks bought early recievers with great specs and hooked them up to their old quads to watch their new amps smoke. At least it saved them from having to listen to them.wink_face.gif Modern cheapies like a NAD 326 or Rega Brio play them fine though will not do them justice.


Edited by goodvibes - 4/20/11 at 10:32am
post #30 of 60
Thread Starter 

I bought a pair of rebuilt by Wayne Picquet in the late 90s off of the internet. Took me most of the night to install them then I had the same problem as before.

Next to no treble on one side. I figured something was different when I had to look on the internet for the wiring diagram of the treble panel to the audio transformer.

Long story short I screwed up the wiring on one side but the decent part is now they work. Just have to wait a day to get some good sound out of them. Sure has been

a long hard time with these speakers and probably will take opening them up a few more times to have them in good condition. For speakers 40 some years old they sure

hold there value pretty well.

 

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