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post #8011 of 29490
Quote:
Originally Posted by derbigpr View Post

 

I have HD558's, and have tried HD598's.  As I said in my review which you can find here on head-fi,  I challenge anyone to find me sonic differences between HD558 de-foamed and HD598.  They sound almost exactly the same when HD558 is modded (and the mod takes 2 minutes, its reversible, and there's no risk of damaging anything). Differences between 558 and 598 are there only initially due to stronger clamp force of the headband on HD598, which evens out after time.   IMHO,  with 558's and 598's,   its about the looks.  Which ones you like more.  I liked HD558's more, because I thought 598's might get dirty.

 

Also, to answer the question about other headphones in that price range.... there are no others which are as good as HD5X9 series, from my experiance.  I tried every single popular headphone from 150-250$ when buying these, and HD558/HD598 came as a clear winner. Best sound balance, best soundstage, best comfort, no audible problem with any part of frequency, easy to run, excellent detail, very little headphones can reveal detail as effortlessly  as these without being bright...akg k701's come to mind. To me, they're a perfect balance between warmth and brightness (no seenheiser veil with hd5x9 series), without sounding dull, at least after burn in.

 

However, even though they get very loud from any source, if you read my review, you will see that they DO need amping to show full potential, otherwise they tend to be bass light (there's a huge spike in "amp hunger" from 40 to 150 hz frequency range), and lack some fun factor or snappiness.

Also, they do need burn in, although, as I said, I think it comes more to headband and ear cups "burn-in".

 

 

but don't the 558's crack? if you de-foam them, you're voiding the warranty and having them crack after that would be terrible. From what I've gathered, they have a high probability of cracking.


Edited by DreamKing - 10/11/11 at 8:38am
post #8012 of 29490
Quote:
Originally Posted by Armaegis View Post

While the 555/595 conversion is well known, reportedly there's a bit more to the 598 than just tape and grills. Check out the review on headfonia for a comparison of the modded 558 with the 598. In general though, differences between the Sennheiser within each family are not huge. I say go with the 558 and be happy. Spend the rest of the money on women and other vices.  

I liked the 840, and they can be found on sale for $130 sometimes. Comfort is an issue though. Being closed headphones, they also offer a very different sound from the open Senns. 

 


I mention the 840 because they're still available on electronics expo and have quite the meaty discount with the coupon. So do the 558's though. So how do they compare? As far as the open vs closed debate, I think I'm on the side of open as I'd be using them at home, where I don't get all that much outside noise.


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by derbigpr View Post

 

I have HD558's, and have tried HD598's.  As I said in my review which you can find here on head-fi,  I challenge anyone to find me sonic differences between HD558 de-foamed and HD598.  They sound almost exactly the same when HD558 is modded (and the mod takes 2 minutes, its reversible, and there's no risk of damaging anything). Differences between 558 and 598 are there only initially due to stronger clamp force of the headband on HD598, which evens out after time.   IMHO,  with 558's and 598's,   its about the looks.  Which ones you like more.  I liked HD558's more, because I thought 598's might get dirty.

 

Also, to answer the question about other headphones in that price range.... there are no others which are as good as HD5X9 series, from my experiance.  I tried every single popular headphone from 150-250$ when buying these, and HD558/HD598 came as a clear winner. Best sound balance, best soundstage, best comfort, no audible problem with any part of frequency, easy to run, excellent detail, very little headphones can reveal detail as effortlessly  as these without being bright...akg k701's come to mind. To me, they're a perfect balance between warmth and brightness (no seenheiser veil with hd5x9 series), without sounding dull, at least after burn in.

 

However, even though they get very loud from any source, if you read my review, you will see that they DO need amping to show full potential, otherwise they tend to be bass light (there's a huge spike in "amp hunger" from 40 to 150 hz frequency range), and lack some fun factor or snappiness.

Also, they do need burn in, although, as I said, I think it comes more to headband and ear cups "burn-in".

 

 


Hmm, well that certainly is a strong push for me to get the 558's then. As far as competitors, would you find it's fair to say that were I to want a noticeable upgrade from the 558/598, I would need to go into the $250+ area, and the headphones that would compete would need some decent amps to drive in order to bring out the qualities in them that make them superior to the 558/598?

 

And unamped bass a little weak huh...well hopefully my Asus Xonar D2 can at least give the sound a little kick for now, I'll upgrade eventually.

 

 

post #8013 of 29490
Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamKing View Post

but don't the 558's crack? if you de-foam them, you're voiding the warranty and having them crack after that would be terrible. From what I've gathered, they have a high probability of cracking.



I recall reading in a few places that people said Sennheiser had become aware of the problem and had fixed it for later productions of both the 558 and 598.

post #8014 of 29490
Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamKing View Post

Hi people,

 

New to the audiophile world and I'm thinking of buying a xonar u3 as a cheap temporary dac. Can someone explain to me why I see so many DAC's, including this one, only outputting between 20 to 20khz? Does that mean the scope of the soundstage would be dampened, or am I worrying for nothing? Should I get a 48khz one instead?

 

The question, basically, is can an output frequency of 20-20khz on a DAC bottleneck headphones with 10-26khz+ frequency response? sorry if that's an obvious question but when dealing with tech stuff, I'm almost always mistaken when I think something is common sense.

 

Also I need more input on what to choose between the Senn HD-518, 558 and 598's.

 

Here's a thread I posted yesterday with more info:

 

 


Human hearing typically only extends to 20-20kHz, maybe 22kHz in exceptional cases. Music typically isn't recorded beyond those either, for practical reasons (why bother when you can't hear it?) and mechanical reasons (it is difficult to even capture those frequencies to begin with).

 

No it won't affect your soundstage, or anything like that. You are worrying over nothing. Don't believe all the hype. Even if there are differences, they are extremely miniscule and beyond the scope of diminishing returns for most people.

 

When equipment says it only extends from A to B, it doesn't mean the frequencies suddenly stop there. Typically the A & B points are where the response has dropped 3dB from a flat line, and it will continue dropping beyond it.

 

I say go with the 558.


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by veyrongatti View Post

1 more thing are there any good cheap beyerdynamics?


DT235

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by Tr1ckster View Post

Can anyone tell me the difference in sound of Denon D2000 against Denon D5000? Do u think it's worth the price for the (around) $300 difference in price?


I've heard the stock D2000, D5000, and a modded 5000. Honestly not a huge difference between them unless you can A/B directly. Get the D2000 and save yourself they money. Or snoop around for a used D5000 which can be found close to the price of a new D2000.

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by OmenWalker View Post

 

Hey guys,newbie here and also my first post.Its kinda long but please bear with me.

I currently own a pair of Audio technica SJ11s and I have to say I love them,but I kinda want a new pair of OVER-ear headphones now and am looking at either the audio technica SJ55(http://www.audio-technica.com.sg/con_product.php?prodid=110) or the Razer Electra(http://store.razerzone.com/store/razerusa/en_US/pd/productID.234280400/parentCategoryID.35096300/categoryId.35209700)

 

 

Now I know most of you would say "Don't get razer,its BS" and stuff like that but I'm not really an audiophile.I just want a pair of good sounding over-ear headphones with clear mids and highs as well as a strong bass.The main thing that pushes me towards the razer electra is because of its detachable cable at an affordable price since I have had my fair share of earphones being unusable anymore because of a ruined cable and secondly because of its design(I listen to music very often in public and at home on an ipod.No fancy audiophile set-up).

 

I would greatly appreciate any suggestions and useful advice but please DO NOT recommend me any headphones above a US$100(audio technica M50s) price tag or even a US$70 price tag if possible because my country(Singapore) usually imports these things and the currency rate added up with import cost could make a simple US$60 amount to SGD$100 here and I am not a working adult.The audio technica M50s themselves are more than SGD$200 here!!

 

Any other suggestions for closed over-ear headphones with a detachable cable and below $100 would be GREATLY appreciated,thanks guys!

PS:anyone know how to close or delete a thread cuz I accidently posted this as a new thread before seeing this.Sorry! :X


Shure 440/550S

Sony 7510

KRK 6400

 

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew jc View Post

I’m looking for a knock around set of headphones. I’m travelling and I am not going to take my home rig on the road.  My budget is around $50, I want some isolation but not total isolation, I listen to mostly to rock, acoustic, classical, and will watch movies as well. As for a source I’ll be using laptop (FLAC) and the uDAC2.  Right now I’m about the pull the trigger on a pair of Audio Technica ATH-M30. That is unless there is something better out there.

 

random suggestions:

Beyer DT235

Senn HD202/203

AKG K81/518
 

 

post #8015 of 29490
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChorniyVolk View Post
Hmm, well that certainly is a strong push for me to get the 558's then. As far as competitors, would you find it's fair to say that were I to want a noticeable upgrade from the 558/598, I would need to go into the $250+ area, and the headphones that would compete would need some decent amps to drive in order to bring out the qualities in them that make them superior to the 558/598?

 

And unamped bass a little weak huh...well hopefully my Asus Xonar D2 can at least give the sound a little kick for now, I'll upgrade eventually.

 

 

 

For the first part of the question,  yes, you would definitely need to go far over 250 dollar mark to get a noticeable improvement that would make you go WOW!!! like when you go from cheap 50$ headphones to 200-250$ ones for the first time.  I heard HD600, HD650,  recently Beyers DT880 and AKG Q701, all of those are close to $500 and need an amp that costs almost that much, but honestly, comparing them to HD558's or 598's, I cant say any of those are much better, even with amps. Like, IMHO, HD598's offer 95% of what HD600's or HD650's offer. They are different in their sound signature, yes, but not much better.

 

You definitely can forget about being highly impressed by headphones after you try something in 200-250 price range. You'd probably have to go to $1000+ models to feel a big difference again.  I find that as you go up in prices, differences in SQ get smaller and smaller, and once you hit the mid/high end, headphones start to sound "different", not necessarily "better" compared to other models in price range, and it depends more on your personal preference than the sound quality itself.  I mean...yes,  HD650's for example are slightly more refined than HD558's, sound more "expensive", have smoother and more realistic bass response, but then again, hd558's have a wider and bigger soundstage, are more comfortable, more engaging, they present details in music more effortlessly, so in then end, when you mix all the pro's and con's, you end up with two headphones that are DIFFERENT. You will like one more than another because of your personal preferences, but you can't point your finger at one or another, and say: "These are definitely much better".  

Let me put it this way,  when you go from BMW 1 series to BMW 7 series, there is a HUGE difference , but when you go from BMW 7 series to Rolls Royce Ghost, which is almost 2 times more expensive, differences are much smaller, even though price difference was much greater than when jumping from 1 series to 7 series. Its just that they are different cars, with different philosophies. Those who want to cruise in silence and comfort while drinking champagne in the back seat with buy a Rolls, those who like to drive trough the twisty alpine roads or break speed records on autobahn will buy a 7 series.

 

Also, don't forget that HD558/598's are one of the newest mid/high end audiophile headphones on the market, and most headphones that are "one step up" in the ladder, are old...like HD600/650, Beyer DT7/8/9 series, Akg k701's, they've all been around for almost 10 years, almost unchanged.  
 

For the second part,  plugged directly into my Asus Xonar D2X  (which is basically a D2 with more features)  HD558's get pretty loud, and sound great, not bass weak.  Plugged into ipod or mp3 players they sound kinda dull and bass light.  But amp still increases performance levels compared to using them with sound card only.


Edited by derbigpr - 10/11/11 at 10:16am
post #8016 of 29490

I'm looking to spend less than $100 used and I listen to a lot of bass heavy music.  Should I pick up some A700s for $95 shipped or go with some HD555s for $65 shipped?

post #8017 of 29490
Quote:
Originally Posted by vesrah View Post

I'm looking to spend less than $100 used and I listen to a lot of bass heavy music.  Should I pick up some A700s for $95 shipped or go with some HD555s for $65 shipped?


Neither will satisfy you if you're looking for heavy bass. On a budget, the Sony XB series are good for delivering bass.

 

post #8018 of 29490
Quote:
Originally Posted by derbigpr View Post

Also, don't forget that HD558/598's are one of the newest mid/high end audiophile headphones on the market, and most headphones that are "one step up" in the ladder, are old...like HD600/650, Beyer DT7/8/9 series, Akg k701's, they've all been around for almost 10 years, almost unchanged.
 

 

Um - where to start .....

 

First the 558/598 are not exactly high-end.  Definitely mid-fi at best.  But that's semantics.

 

Secondly - there is a reason that the HD600/650 and Beyer DT series headphones have not changed a lot over the last 5-10 years, and are still immensely popular - it's because they are really that good.  Why change somethuing that does not need changing.

 

Third - shop carefully and you'll pick up DT 7/8/9 series & HD600/650 in the 250-350 bracket - not the $500 bracket.

 

Fourth  - you don't need to spend $500 on an amp to pair with these cans.  True they do scale well - but the E7/E9 combo, or an NFB-12 (both around the $200 mark) will drive them very well.

 

I agree that the HD598 is a great can for the buck.  But your post sounded like you were almost writing the HD600/650 & DT880 off as not worth the extra money.  I'd suggest you actually spend considerable time with any of these cans - not just demo them.  You should then be able to appreciate why people move up the chain / gravitate to this level of mid-fi.

post #8019 of 29490
Quote:
Originally Posted by vesrah View Post
I'm looking to spend less than $100 used and I listen to a lot of bass heavy music.  Should I pick up some A700s for $95 shipped or go with some HD555s for $65 shipped?


What are you going to be plugging your headphones into?

I'm going to guess that the A700, being a closed headphone, would provide more bass then the HD-555, being an open headphone.

Sometimes you can get used/refurbished Beyerdynamic DT-770 Pro 80-Ohm for under $100.

The DT-770 Pro series really needs a headphone amplifier to bring out their best.

CALs (Creative Aurvana Live) have a nice sound, and Amazon has them for a great price.

CALs have small cups, barely fits around ears.

 

 

 

post #8020 of 29490
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooko View Post

Third - shop carefully and you'll pick up DT 7/8/9 series & HD600/650 in the 250-350 bracket - not the $500 bracket.

 

Cheaper yet, the pro versions of the DT 7/8/9 can usually be found for $200.

 

edit: actually the DT770 and 990pro are $175 on Amazon right now.

 

post #8021 of 29490

Wow - those are great prices for the Beyers.  I loved my DT880 Pro when I had it.

post #8022 of 29490
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooko View Post

 

Um - where to start .....

 

First the 558/598 are not exactly high-end.  Definitely mid-fi at best.  But that's semantics.

 

Secondly - there is a reason that the HD600/650 and Beyer DT series headphones have not changed a lot over the last 5-10 years, and are still immensely popular - it's because they are really that good.  Why change somethuing that does not need changing.

 

Third - shop carefully and you'll pick up DT 7/8/9 series & HD600/650 in the 250-350 bracket - not the $500 bracket.

 

Fourth  - you don't need to spend $500 on an amp to pair with these cans.  True they do scale well - but the E7/E9 combo, or an NFB-12 (both around the $200 mark) will drive them very well.

 

I agree that the HD598 is a great can for the buck.  But your post sounded like you were almost writing the HD600/650 & DT880 off as not worth the extra money.  I'd suggest you actually spend considerable time with any of these cans - not just demo them.  You should then be able to appreciate why people move up the chain / gravitate to this level of mid-fi.

 

As I said, they're one of the newest in mid/high range, I didnt mean to say 598's are high end, I was just implying that there aren't many new models in mid to high end range on the market. I agree they're in the mid-fi,  upper end of mid-fi though.

 

Its not that HD600 / HD650's aren't worth the extra money,  it's just the fact that they're not 2 or 3 times better than hd598's, which nobody can deny. Even if you get them very cheap for like 300 dollars (although I don't see how, in Europe HD598's cost 250 euros, HD650's cost 450-500 euros, which is more than 700 dollars), you still need an amp in order to make them work properly.  And even if you get a basic amp for lets say 200-250 dollars, you're talking about 500-600 dollars in total, at least. Thats 3 times more than HD598 which will work to 90% of their potential without an amp, and im sorry, but HD650's aren't 3 times better than HD598's. As I said, you get about 90-95% of the HD650 sound quality with HD598's. The point is, differences in sound quality are much smaller than prices would suggest.   If you're not a hard-core serious audiophile looking for absolute perfection,  HD598's and other headphones of similar quality are as high as you need to go to really enjoy any type of music, movies or games.

 

I'm not dissing HD600/650, DT880 or K701, neither am I saying that those headphones aren't better than HD598's,   I was just answering the question of how much money you would need to spend to feel a great difference in comparison to HD598's, and I think we can both agree that you would need to go above 500 dollars.
 

 


Edited by derbigpr - 10/11/11 at 1:29pm
post #8023 of 29490


 Hi all, first post here so forgive me if I waffle on.

 

 I'm looking for a new pair of cheap "indoor" headphones after my 4 year old HD457's gave up on me (funeral is next tuesday).

 The only criticism I had was they sounded slightly muddy, I think I'm looking for something a little brighter but still with a nice amount of bass.

 

I've already looked all over and can't seem to find anything for my budget that has a nice sound, is comfortable to wear and is available in the UK.

 

I mistakenly purchased a pair of JVC Xtremes which are about as comfortable as wearing a bear trap on my head, they also sound worse than the in ears I got free with my phone. Waiting for some sucker to buy these on ebay.

Below is what I'm looking for, any suggestions would really be appreciated. smily_headphones1.gif

 

Music: Mostly old/new rock and metal with some pop/electronic as well as casual gaming and watching tv/movies

Sound: Looking for something full with good range, bassy but not too muddy with distinct highs

Portable: Not important, looking for comfort over portability, already have a lightweight pair of Senn PMX100's for out and about

Budget: No more than £35 (around $50) and availability in the UK.

Amped: No amp unless this can be included in the budget (doubtful)

Source: Mainly PC/Laptop sound-card, sometimes Stereo system

Closed/Open: Closed a bonus but not above comfort/sound

 

 

post #8024 of 29490
Quote:
Originally Posted by derbigpr View Post

 

As I said, they're one of the newest in mid/high range, I didnt mean to say 598's are high end, I was just implying that there aren't many new models in mid to high end range on the market. I agree they're in the mid-fi,  upper end of mid-fi though.

 

Its not that HD600 / HD650's aren't worth the extra money,  it's just the fact that they're not 2 or 3 times better than hd598's, which nobody can deny. Even if you get them very cheap for like 300 dollars (although I don't see how, in Europe HD598's cost 250 euros, HD650's cost 450-500 euros, which is more than 700 dollars), you still need an amp in order to make them work properly.  And even if you get a basic amp for lets say 200-250 dollars, you're talking about 500-600 dollars in total, at least. Thats 3 times more than HD598 which will work to 90% of their potential without an amp, and im sorry, but HD650's aren't 3 times better than HD598's. As I said, you get about 90-95% of the HD650 sound quality with HD598's. The point is, differences in sound quality are much smaller than prices would suggest.   If you're not a hard-core serious audiophile looking for absolute perfection,  HD598's and other headphones of similar quality are as high as you need to go to really enjoy any type of music, movies or games.

 

I'm not dissing HD600/650, DT880 or K701, neither am I saying that those headphones aren't better than HD598's,   I was just answering the question of how much money you would need to spend to feel a great difference in comparison to HD598's, and I think we can both agree that you would need to go above 500 dollars. 

 



I can accept your viewpoint.  All I'm suggesting is that if you spend some quality time (not just briefly demoing them) with the HD600/650 and DT series, you may just change your mind a little.

 

Buying both the DT880 (first - sadly recently sold), then the HD600 (current) was one of the best things I've done to date for my preferences.  Are they double the performance of my last cans (eg SRH840) - because they are at least 2-3 times the price?  No - but they are a significant step-up from what I had, and I have no regrets at all about making that step-up.  To me (and obviously to a lot of others on this site), there is significant value for money at the HD600/650 level.

 

At the same time, I would recommend at starting with the lower end anyway - because it gives you an idea of scalability, introduces you to various company's house sounds (without breaking the bank), and ultimately helps you appreciate what you have once you do upgrade.

 

Sure - I've spent a little on the way - but buying and selling I haven't lost a lot of money - and the discovery (finding what I really like and don't like) has been invaluable.

post #8025 of 29490
Quote:
Originally Posted by benman27 View Post
 Hi all, first post here so forgive me if I waffle on.

 I'm looking for a new pair of cheap "indoor" headphones after my 4 year old HD457's gave up on me (funeral is next tuesday).

 The only criticism I had was they sounded slightly muddy, I think I'm looking for something a little brighter but still with a nice amount of bass.

I've already looked all over and can't seem to find anything for my budget that has a nice sound, is comfortable to wear and is available in the UK.

I mistakenly purchased a pair of JVC Xtremes which are about as comfortable as wearing a bear trap on my head, they also sound worse than the in ears I got free with my phone. Waiting forsomesucker to buy these on ebay.Below is what I'm looking for, any suggestions would really be appreciated. smily_headphones1.gif

Music: Mostly old/new rock and metal with some pop/electronic as well as casual gaming and watching tv/movies

Sound: Looking for something full with good range, bassy but not too muddy with distinct highs

Portable: Not important, looking for comfort over portability, already have a lightweight pair of Senn PMX100's for out and about

Budget: No more than £35 (around $50) and availability in the UK.

Amped: No amp unless this can be included in the budget (doubtful)

Source: Mainly PC/Laptop sound-card, sometimes Stereo system

Closed/Open: Closed a bonus but not above comfort/sound


Superlux HD-668B

Samson SR850

Both semi-open

 

 

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