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post #25846 of 29491
Quote:
Originally Posted by derbigpr View Post


Even with crossfeed its not like a speaker. Crossfeed makes a really slight difference and gives a slight feeling of central image, its not a drastic improvement.  With speakers you get such illusion of central image (or any other part of the soundstage), you can touch the spot in the air where the source of the sound would be.  When listening to music on my Kef Q300's, I can put point my hand at each exact point where each sound is coming from, and with extreme precision, I can cover the vocalists mouth with the palm of my hand so to speak. On headphones, even though you get a feeling of where each sound is coming from, its never as exact or separated from the rest of the sound. Its just how it is. If you have a chance to do a direct comparison, do it. I can plug my headphones into a speaker amp and sit on the speaker sweetspot, and then play music and have someone plug in and out the headphones, so that I switch between headphones playing and speakers playing.  Its such a huge difference in soundstage.

So theoretically, I agree with you absolutely... 100%. But here's the thing: Unless you have a dedicated listening room that you can outfit exactly as you see best fit, you have a much better chance of BETTER creating such an ideal space via headphones and various ancillaries including crossfeed. That's how I've come to head audiophilia. At first I didn't get it but then somewhere along the way the light bulb went on. I can come much closer to creating my ideal in every respect in head-fi. And not only that, I can have it be fairly portable to boot!
post #25847 of 29491

Hi,

 

I am wondering which would be the best investment for me:

1. HE-500 and the Woo Audio WA7 fireflies

2. Audeze LCD-2 and Audio GD NFB-10.32

3. Audio-GD NFB-27 and Beyerdybamic T90

 

I was wondering where is my money best invested - a good AMP+DAC and more expensive headphones or buy a better AMP+DAC and experiment with headphones later on, seeing that this combo will also drive my existing phones better. I may be able to strech the budget a bit but would want to know what the advantages would be.

 

Thanks,

Dotan

post #25848 of 29491
Quote:
Originally Posted by roguegeek View Post

Just scratch the DT770 off your list if you aren't going for the 32ohm version. I think, sonically, they're going to be what you're looking for, but they aren't made for portable use and need to be amped. I use my 80ohm version exclusively in my office and love them.

Well with them i can affor to get a FiiO E6, and if need be the L9 LOD too, but since i am using streming services IDK if that will make a difference
Edited by jonnyp11 - 3/10/13 at 7:30am
post #25849 of 29491

More about the UE6000 from Dale Thorn at hifi headphones:

 

First he tests them on a bunch of music much to my liking and gives them solid thumbs up. 

 

Then though he says this:

 

 

Quote:
No, I haven't heard the DT770 Pro, but given that between Tyll at Innerfidelity and myself, we have 3 defective headphones out of 5, 

(referring the the UE6000's)

 

and you can follow the story off all 5 in their reviews.  YIKES.  

 

edit: ok. so at least one of the defects turned out to be just that the cable is hard to push in.  I think one of the other ones got written off to variation and loose sound specs, but not a defect.  I might be wrong on that.  Maybe only one was really broken. Still many posts in the thread indicate poor QC often in the form of large balance issues.   Reading more it seems all concede finally that these are more bass heavy than m50 by quite a bit, and similar event to beats..  No thanks.  Definitely not my headphone unless people think it's so amazing that I should just equalize it.  The 30 hz square wave is impressive showing bass ability as is the distortion graph, but still.

 

For the higher budget consideration, I'm leaning back toward krk 8400.  They also have impressive distortion and bass extension and an impressive 30hz square wave BUT they have a flat response. They also have great isolation with 16db broadband, maybe it's better than lousy noise cancellation.

 

So I think I'm at DJ100 for cheap or KRK 6400 for a little more money.

 

Oh about the crossfeed idea, thanks for the ideas BigCabDaddy. I'll look into it.  Maybe I can do it in software since my source is an htpc.  Still, I'm not expecting much and it won't be a purchasing factor.  I'd be blown away to hear closed headphones beat speakers in this regard, so I don't have that expectation, but the fact you say it can be done makes me curious enough to look into it a little anyway. 


Edited by BiggerHead - 3/10/13 at 9:06am
post #25850 of 29491
Quote:
Originally Posted by dotandvir View Post

Hi,

I am wondering which would be the best investment for me:



1. HE-500 and the Woo Audio WA7 fireflies



2. Audeze LCD-2 and Audio GD NFB-10.32



3. Audio-GD NFB-27 and Beyerdybamic T90




I was wondering where is my money best invested - a good AMP+DAC and more expensive headphones or buy a better AMP+DAC and experiment with headphones later on, seeing that this combo will also drive my existing phones better. I may be able to strech the budget a bit but would want to know what the advantages would be.


Thanks,

Dotan

Definitely a case of do as a say, not as I do here, so be forewarned:

Source and output are the majority of sound quality... a large majority. So to me it seems obvious that the bulk of your $$$ should go to phones (Right after you stop ripping at 128k mp3.) Now there is one caveat though: You need to be able to drive those high priced cans of your dreams.
post #25851 of 29491
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnyp11 View Post


Well with them i can affor to get a FiiO E6, and if need be the L9 LOD too, but since i am using streming services IDK if that will make a difference

 

If you don't mind that. Personally, I can't do with the extra bulk when I go completely portable. I have attempted to use my DT770 Pro 80ohm on my iPhone or iPad with my FiiO Andes E09K and it sounds great, but that extra bulk is something I'm not fond of at all. I just can't imagine doing the same thing back in high school with all of the other stuff you carry all the time. If you think you can deal with it, great. Otherwise, I'd keep with the more efficient cans.

 

I'd be interested in hearing what you thought of the UE 6000. Keep in mind that it's getting all of its praise right now with the NC turned OFF. Check out this and this.

post #25852 of 29491

Hi there. I'm coming back to the forum to ask your advice for new cans.
I came 2 years ago but finally bought nothing...

I'm looking for a recommendation to buy my first pair of high-ish quality headphones (i used an old Sennheiser PC150 "headphones" before).
 

Usage :

 

  - Music   80%
  - Gaming 10% (usually i play with the minimal volume on the game to focus on voice chats and/or music of my choice)
  - Movies/Shows 10%


Music Breakdown :

  - Techno/Trance (i'm in love with liquid and chillstep these days ^^) 40%
  - Electro/pop 30%
  - Classical/jazz 20%
  - Rock 10%



After some researchs, i think i'll buy a sansa clip+ player with a fiio e6 amp, and now i need advice for the headphones i'd plug in that combo ^^.
I will use it with my computer too.

If possible i want to avoid sound leakage (to not disturb other people around and/or to be able to voice chat sometimes, without echo)
 

 


My  budget is around €150 for the headphones

Are the DT770 80ohms a good idea ?

 


Thanks for your help, and sorry if my English isn't perfect, it's not my native language ~~.
 

 

 


Edited by Mijka - 3/10/13 at 10:19am
post #25853 of 29491
Quote:
Originally Posted by roguegeek View Post

If you don't mind that. Personally, I can't do with the extra bulk when I go completely portable. I have attempted to use my DT770 Pro 80ohm on my iPhone or iPad with my FiiO Andes E09K and it sounds great, but that extra bulk is something I'm not fond of at all. I just can't imagine doing the same thing back in high school with all of the other stuff you carry all the time. If you think you can deal with it, great. Otherwise, I'd keep with the more efficient cans.

I'd be interested in hearing what you thought of the UE 6000. Keep in mind that it's getting all of its praise right now with the NC turned OFF. Check out this and this.

Will have to find somewhere to try them
post #25854 of 29491
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggerHead View Post

More about the UE6000 from Dale Thorn at hifi headphones:

 

First he tests them on a bunch of music much to my liking and gives them solid thumbs up. 

 

Then though he says this:

 

 

Quote:
No, I haven't heard the DT770 Pro, but given that between Tyll at Innerfidelity and myself, we have 3 defective headphones out of 5, 

(referring the the UE6000's)

 

and you can follow the story off all 5 in their reviews.  YIKES.  

 

edit: ok. so at least one of the defects turned out to be just that the cable is hard to push in.  I think one of the other ones got written off to variation and loose sound specs, but not a defect.  I might be wrong on that.  Maybe only one was really broken. Still many posts in the thread indicate poor QC often in the form of large balance issues.   Reading more it seems all concede finally that these are more bass heavy than m50 by quite a bit, and similar event to beats..  No thanks.  Definitely not my headphone unless people think it's so amazing that I should just equalize it.  The 30 hz square wave is impressive showing bass ability as is the distortion graph, but still.

 

For the higher budget consideration, I'm leaning back toward krk 8400.  They also have impressive distortion and bass extension and an impressive 30hz square wave BUT they have a flat response. They also have great isolation with 16db broadband, maybe it's better than lousy noise cancellation.

 

So I think I'm at DJ100 for cheap or KRK 6400 for a little more money.

 

Oh about the crossfeed idea, thanks for the ideas BigCabDaddy. I'll look into it.  Maybe I can do it in software since my source is an htpc.  Still, I'm not expecting much and it won't be a purchasing factor.  I'd be blown away to hear closed headphones beat speakers in this regard, so I don't have that expectation, but the fact you say it can be done makes me curious enough to look into it a little anyway. 


Go with the best KRK you can afford.

post #25855 of 29491
Quote:
Originally Posted by dotandvir View Post

Hi,

 

I am wondering which would be the best investment for me:

1. HE-500 and the Woo Audio WA7 fireflies

2. Audeze LCD-2 and Audio GD NFB-10.32

3. Audio-GD NFB-27 and Beyerdybamic T90

 

I was wondering where is my money best invested - a good AMP+DAC and more expensive headphones or buy a better AMP+DAC and experiment with headphones later on, seeing that this combo will also drive my existing phones better. I may be able to strech the budget a bit but would want to know what the advantages would be.

 

Thanks,

Dotan


You need a balance & synergy between your can and what drives it.  First pick your can between option #1 and #2.  They have different sound signatures and prices.  I recommend the 500 as the best value and most neutral sound signature, but others prefer the darker Audeze.  In either case you'll have a great can.  Next go to the appreciation thread for the can you selected and get the best amp/dac combo within your budget for that particular can.

post #25856 of 29491

I'm wondering if high-end ($600 - $1400) headphones are for me?  I've been auditioning headphones in that price range and I'm puzzled: I don't like the sound of headphones that receive almost universal acclaim, because they don't sound "real" to me.

 

Recently I went to my first concert in over 10 years (long story).  A violinist (Hillary Hahn) solo and with piano accompaniment. My revelation: there are times when a violin goes into a very high range and, yes, it sounds harsh and screechy.  Even with one of the best violinists on the planet.  My current favorite (Grado SR-125) faithfully reproduces that.  But the high-end headphones I've heard (HD-650 and LCD-2) smooth all that out.  I don't want to offend anyone... I just want to explain what I'm looking for... while these phones make terrible source material sound good, they make great source material sound like I'm hearing it through a vat of honey.

 

So if I'm looking for more realism, more "like being there"... should I be shopping in the $700 plus price range at all?  Based on all I've read (and because I like to try new technologies), I'm leaning to the HE-500.  But if an HE-500 is "between an HD-650 and an LCD-2", then I'm not sure it's for me.  And if not, what would be?

 

I'd love to hear your thoughts about this.

 

Some background:

 

Genres:  Mostly genres with physical instruments: classical, opera, jazz, blues,. Vocals of all sorts, from cantata to Lady Gaga. Plenty of rock. Also some more "experimental" stuff: Tangerine Dream, Sonic Youth, Pink Floyd (experimental at the time, now it's "classic rock"!)

 

Amp: Audio-gd NFB 11.32.  I will always listen to these amped.

 

Price: $700

 

Technology:  probably ortho and open... but I just want results.

 

Headphones I own or have spent 100+ hours with:  Grado SR-125; Beyerdynamic DT-770pro/80; Sennheiser HD-650.

Headphones I have auditioned briefly (in a shop):  Grado SR-325; Audeze LCD-2

 

Preferences:  I want the music to sound "real"... like it would at a concert/recital hall.  I like tons of detail: I want to hear the vocalist breathing; the separation of instruments in an ensemble. I like to be able to sense the physical separateness in space of each of the performers.  I tend to prefer solid-state gear over tube gear.  Perhaps I really want "more real than real"... an almost unnatural amount of detail and precision and accuracy of timbre.

 

I realize that many of my preferences are at the mercy of the producer and recording engineer.  So let's assume well-crafted source material.  Eventually I will probably get a more forgiving headphone for more ... problematical ... source material.

 

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

post #25857 of 29491
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicko7i View Post

I'm wondering if high-end ($600 - $1400) headphones are for me?  I've been auditioning headphones in that price range and I'm puzzled: I don't like the sound of headphones that receive almost universal acclaim, because they don't sound "real" to me.

 

Recently I went to my first concert in over 10 years (long story).  A violinist (Hillary Hahn) solo and with piano accompaniment. My revelation: there are times when a violin goes into a very high range and, yes, it sounds harsh and screechy.  Even with one of the best violinists on the planet.  My current favorite (Grado SR-125) faithfully reproduces that.  But the high-end headphones I've heard (HD-650 and LCD-2) smooth all that out.  I don't want to offend anyone... I just want to explain what I'm looking for... while these phones make terrible source material sound good, they make great source material sound like I'm hearing it through a vat of honey.

 

So if I'm looking for more realism, more "like being there"... should I be shopping in the $700 plus price range at all?  Based on all I've read (and because I like to try new technologies), I'm leaning to the HE-500.  But if an HE-500 is "between an HD-650 and an LCD-2", then I'm not sure it's for me.  And if not, what would be?

 

I'd love to hear your thoughts about this.

 

Some background:

 

Genres:  Mostly genres with physical instruments: classical, opera, jazz, blues,. Vocals of all sorts, from cantata to Lady Gaga. Plenty of rock. Also some more "experimental" stuff: Tangerine Dream, Sonic Youth, Pink Floyd (experimental at the time, now it's "classic rock"!)

 

Amp: Audio-gd NFB 11.32.  I will always listen to these amped.

 

Price: $700

 

Technology:  probably ortho and open... but I just want results.

 

Headphones I own or have spent 100+ hours with:  Grado SR-125; Beyerdynamic DT-770pro/80; Sennheiser HD-650.

Headphones I have auditioned briefly (in a shop):  Grado SR-325; Audeze LCD-2

 

Preferences:  I want the music to sound "real"... like it would at a concert/recital hall.  I like tons of detail: I want to hear the vocalist breathing; the separation of instruments in an ensemble. I like to be able to sense the physical separateness in space of each of the performers.  I tend to prefer solid-state gear over tube gear.  Perhaps I really want "more real than real"... an almost unnatural amount of detail and precision and accuracy of timbre.

 

I realize that many of my preferences are at the mercy of the producer and recording engineer.  So let's assume well-crafted source material.  Eventually I will probably get a more forgiving headphone for more ... problematical ... source material.

 

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.


The LCD-2 and HD 650 are not known (in their respective classes) for excellent treble.  The LCD is dark and the Senn is veiled.  The neutral and "all of it is there" HE 500 is certainly not between the two, except with regard to price.

 

I suggest you spend some time reading this to get great insight into what can will be right for you:

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/634201/battle-of-the-flagships-57-headphones-compared-update-hifiman-he-400-added-12-24-12

 

At $700 new, I doubt that you can beat the HE 500, except for a closeout price on the HE 5LE.

post #25858 of 29491
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mijka View Post

After some researchs, i think i'll buy a sansa clip+ player with a fiio e6 amp, and now i need advice for the headphones i'd plug in that combo ^^.
I will use it with my computer too.

If possible i want to avoid sound leakage (to not disturb other people around and/or to be able to voice chat sometimes, without echo)


My  budget is around €150 for the headphones

Are the DT770 80ohms a good idea ?
 


I've used the DT-770/80 for many years as my primary headphone.  It does not leak sound into the room even at the loudest levels that I use;  it has plenty of bass (possibly too much for me) but a good match for techno/trance/electro/pop.  Extremely comfortable: I can wear them all day.  I used them for daily voice chat business meetings with no problems.  They sound better when amped... and you have an amp.  

 

I haven't heard other headphones in this price range, so I can't advise you on that.  It sounds like the DT-770 is a close match to your requirements.

 

PS: you're English is fine.  I would have assumed you were a native speaker.

post #25859 of 29491
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicko7i View Post

I'm wondering if high-end ($600 - $1400) headphones are for me?  I've been auditioning headphones in that price range and I'm puzzled: I don't like the sound of headphones that receive almost universal acclaim, because they don't sound "real" to me.

 

Recently I went to my first concert in over 10 years (long story).  A violinist (Hillary Hahn) solo and with piano accompaniment. My revelation: there are times when a violin goes into a very high range and, yes, it sounds harsh and screechy.  Even with one of the best violinists on the planet.  My current favorite (Grado SR-125) faithfully reproduces that.  But the high-end headphones I've heard (HD-650 and LCD-2) smooth all that out.  I don't want to offend anyone... I just want to explain what I'm looking for... while these phones make terrible source material sound good, they make great source material sound like I'm hearing it through a vat of honey.

 

So if I'm looking for more realism, more "like being there"... should I be shopping in the $700 plus price range at all?  Based on all I've read (and because I like to try new technologies), I'm leaning to the HE-500.  But if an HE-500 is "between an HD-650 and an LCD-2", then I'm not sure it's for me.  And if not, what would be?

 

I'd love to hear your thoughts about this.

 

Some background:

 

Genres:  Mostly genres with physical instruments: classical, opera, jazz, blues,. Vocals of all sorts, from cantata to Lady Gaga. Plenty of rock. Also some more "experimental" stuff: Tangerine Dream, Sonic Youth, Pink Floyd (experimental at the time, now it's "classic rock"!)

 

Amp: Audio-gd NFB 11.32.  I will always listen to these amped.

 

Price: $700

 

Technology:  probably ortho and open... but I just want results.

 

Headphones I own or have spent 100+ hours with:  Grado SR-125; Beyerdynamic DT-770pro/80; Sennheiser HD-650.

Headphones I have auditioned briefly (in a shop):  Grado SR-325; Audeze LCD-2

 

Preferences:  I want the music to sound "real"... like it would at a concert/recital hall.  I like tons of detail: I want to hear the vocalist breathing; the separation of instruments in an ensemble. I like to be able to sense the physical separateness in space of each of the performers.  I tend to prefer solid-state gear over tube gear.  Perhaps I really want "more real than real"... an almost unnatural amount of detail and precision and accuracy of timbre.

 

I realize that many of my preferences are at the mercy of the producer and recording engineer.  So let's assume well-crafted source material.  Eventually I will probably get a more forgiving headphone for more ... problematical ... source material.

 

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

I could see you really liking a properly tuned fostex t50rp.. I could also see you liking something from STAX  maybe for your "more real than real" fix. If you are interested in modded t50rps, drop me a line.

post #25860 of 29491

Thank you for this very helpful clarification.  I can easily relate "dark" and "veiled" to my experience of the LCD and Senn respectively, so I think I'm getting dialed in on the terminology.

I re-read "Battle" in the light of your comments, and I now see that DM is quite clear about the qualities of the LCD and Senns, even as he ranks them quite highly.

 

I noticed he places the HE-500 between two Stax models.  I forgot to mention I owned a Stax Lamba-Pro long ago (I probably still own them, just can't find them).   "Ethereal" company indeed!

 

When I've saved up enough, I think I'll move on the HE-500.  

 

Thanks again,

 

n

Quote:
Originally Posted by KG Jag View Post


The LCD-2 and HD 650 are not known (in their respective classes) for excellent treble.  The LCD is dark and the Senn is veiled.  The neutral and "all of it is there" HE 500 is certainly not between the two, except with regard to price.

 

I suggest you spend some time reading this to get great insight into what can will be right for you:

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/634201/battle-of-the-flagships-57-headphones-compared-update-hifiman-he-400-added-12-24-12

 

At $700 new, I doubt that you can beat the HE 500, except for a closeout price on the HE 5LE.

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