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post #23551 of 29491

I was thinking, maybe high end headphones aren't for me. I discovered that perhaps with metal (my main choice of music) the music isn't made with quality sounding production. Headphones like these he400s could actually make the music sound worse than my old beater headphones because they make flaws in production stand out. That being said, would high end headphones still be for me? Maybe high end headphones aren't for everyone?

post #23552 of 29491

Hey! I was wondering what to replace my dead Alessandro MS1i with! I have a budget of up to $400 and I primarily make Glitch Hop. I loved my MS1i's in general, and the HiFiMan HE-400 sounds like it could really fit my tastes, but I need to know about what's best for professional production use too. They should be at least as neutral as my MS1i, working with them was a charm. If anybody knows the best headphone in my price range for this use, please do tell!

post #23553 of 29491
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hifi Man View Post

Hi. I was browsing the web for some information on the hifiman he-400s I ordered when I came across this website. These are my first pair of high end headphones I have ever used. I upgraded from my Logitech G35 gaming headsets, which were my be-all kind of purposeful headsets. I have my he-400s plugged into a schiit modi DAC. I did not order an amplifier with these, and I understand it's not completely necessary.

 

Admittedly, when I got myself into hi-fi headphones, I had no idea what I was getting myself into. I find it difficult to tell the difference between my old headphones and these new ones. My old ones are definitely louder. I have downloaded a fair amount of flac file in preparation for these headphones, and I have been listening to flac file since they arrived. Unfortunately, I don't understand where the difference I'm supposed to be hearing is. I listen to mostly death metal, thrash metal, black metal. I guess I'm just a bit disappointed, because I don't feel like I hear 400 dollars worth of difference compared to my headphones.

 

Is there anyone in this audio community that could answer some of my questions; are these headphones necessary and worth keeping, or should I return them since I can't really tell a difference? I realize that that's entirely preference, but I feel like I'd be more comfortable if I understood a bit more about these headphones. - Are these the right type of headphones for the type of music I listen to? - Should I be hearing a difference between these and my old ones? - Do I need and amp? - Could I get better, more suitable headphones for my budget of 500 dollars? 

 

I really didn't notice that the headphones feel too heavy or something, they actually feel quite comfortable.

 

You hit on the paradox of headphones- the better the quality, the less you notice the sound of the headphone.  Many mid-level headphones have a feature that you can hear, but that usually results from some tonal imbalance- 'detailed' headphones often emphasize the higher frequencies (Grado, some AKG), allowing you to hear things you have never heard before,  but that is because they are not presenting the sound that was mixed at the studio and other frequencies are overshadowed.  Bassy headphones (Denon, some Beyers) can be great fun but also at the expense of accuracy and balance.  Some headphones emphasize both, which can be exciting at first but for me ultimately tiresome.  As much as I liked my D5000 & D7000 I could not get over the imbalance from their v-shaped profile- vocal-heavy music sounded like the singer was in the back of the stage and I literally could not listen to some bands (Electronica became too piercing, Radiohead lost its vocals,).  My LCD-2 are incredibly flat, meaning nothing stands out at all.  This was frankly boring at first, but everything was audible present (deep bass, well-integrated mids, details in the high frequency) and gradually I could become immersed in the whole sound and not some subset of the sound.  

 

You might enjoy headphones that emphasize the feature most prevalent in your music- electric guitars and vocals.  And for that nothing is more engaging and thrilling than Grado- I'd suggest you try SR225 or RS-1.  My wife prefers my $100 Grados to my $1000 LCD-2 and thinks I'm nuts.  I think this is the case for most people who hear good headphones during the first couple of years.

post #23554 of 29491
Quote:
Originally Posted by eucariote View Post

 

You hit on the paradox of headphones- the better the quality, the less you notice the sound of the headphone.  Many mid-level headphones have a feature that you can hear, but that usually results from some tonal imbalance- 'detailed' headphones often emphasize the higher frequencies (Grado, some AKG), allowing you to hear things you have never heard before,  but that is because they are not presenting the sound that was mixed at the studio and other frequencies are overshadowed.  Bassy headphones (Denon, some Beyers) can be great fun but also at the expense of accuracy and balance.  Some headphones emphasize both, which can be exciting at first but for me ultimately tiresome.  As much as I liked my D5000 & D7000 I could not get over the imbalance from their v-shaped profile- vocal-heavy music sounded like the singer was in the back of the stage and I literally could not listen to some bands (Electronica became too piercing, Radiohead lost its vocals,).  My LCD-2 are incredibly flat, meaning nothing stands out at all.  This was frankly boring at first, but everything was audible present (deep bass, well-integrated mids, details in the high frequency) and gradually I could become immersed in the whole sound and not some subset of the sound.  

 

You might enjoy headphones that emphasize the feature most prevalent in your music- electric guitars and vocals.  And for that nothing is more engaging and thrilling than Grado- I'd suggest you try SR225 or RS-1.  My wife prefers my $100 Grados to my $1000 LCD-2 and thinks I'm nuts.  I think this is the case for most people who hear good headphones during the first couple of years.

I guess that begs the question, are these headphones suitable for the type of music I listen to? Death metal I usually listen to (just as one example) doesn't sound especially different, except in songs that used to have a really impenetrable wall of sound production. Where as before, it all sounded like a wall of sound, now I can now hear details of all of the entire song, except things that used to stand out like, let's say the incredible heavy punch of the bass and fast guitars don't seem to stand out as much. Instead these aspects of the music now make it sound a bit flatter. So it's not a degradation in sound quality, as much as it's simply making it different; perhaps not even in a way that makes it more or less enjoyable. The biggest question I have as of this moment, is what is more important? Is an amplifier more important than a DAC? Would an amplifier even make the music sound a bit more like how I want it to? Since, I only want one pair of be-all-end all kind of headphones, are these the most well balanced? I think the even bigger issue, which should over-all be the most important is, are high end headphones even for me? I mean yeah, I do think they're a bit better than my old ones, but how much of that is just the placebo effect? I can't tell if I really do think these headphones are better or if it just seems that way because I'm convincing myself that that's the case. Would different headphones be more enjoyable? I can't tell if that should lead me to return them, or if after all I'll really feel like I love them. That's all there is to it for me I supposed. I didn't know what I wanted when I ordered these, and I still don't know if they're what I want even now after extended listening.


Edited by Hifi Man - 1/18/13 at 10:27am
post #23555 of 29491
Quote:
Originally Posted by SandvichDISH View Post

Hey! I was wondering what to replace my dead Alessandro MS1i with! I have a budget of up to $400 and I primarily make Glitch Hop. I loved my MS1i's in general, and the HiFiMan HE-400 sounds like it could really fit my tastes, but I need to know about what's best for professional production use too. They should be at least as neutral as my MS1i, working with them was a charm. If anybody knows the best headphone in my price range for this use, please do tell!

 

 

Well, for professional use, there's really nothing in your price range that beats the AKG K701 / K702, if you don't mind the open back design. I think HE-400 might be too colored for that, they're pretty dark and bassy. 

post #23556 of 29491
Quote:
Originally Posted by derbigpr View Post

 

 

Well, for professional use, there's really nothing in your price range that beats the AKG K701 / K702, if you don't mind the open back design. I think HE-400 might be too colored for that, they're pretty dark and bassy. 

i disagree with that (a little), the 400's are actually very detailed and the bass is neutral but very present and textured.  they ARE colored a bit however so for production use maybe, maybe not, but they are far more natural than often thought

 

read the big 50 flagship headphones post for what i think is a very accurate review of the 400's

post #23557 of 29491

One of the most important things I think for me is that I really want to hear every little detail, of course neutrality is a very important part of music production and mastering. Just getting a good mix is very important, but top of my list is crazy tiny spaztic high-pitched crazy stuff, which is why from what I read the HE-400 seemed cool. People said they really gave you top-notch detail. Then again, I haven't looked up much about the AKG 701/702 and I do know that they're very good also. 

Tomorrow I'll be visiting a hifi store, but I don't really know what models they'll have there. I hope they have something good for me to listen to to get a better idea.

 

Also, forgot to mention: I have a FiiO E17 


Edited by SandvichDISH - 1/18/13 at 11:04am
post #23558 of 29491
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brads View Post

Hi all,

 

I'm looking for a set of headphones for my commute / general listening. I'm looking to spend around $150, however the catch is I don't want to have extra bulk, so I will be driving them directly from my iPhone (4S, if that makes a difference). I'd prefer on-ear rather than over due to the sweat, but isolation is important to me. I listen to soft rock, acoustic music, alternative rock, jazz, and the occasional dance track, heavy rock and metal, so I'm thinking definition and not super bass-heavy is what I'm after. I'm not too worried if they fold or not, as long as they are relatively durable.

 

In summary, priorities are as follows:

  • Sound quality driven from iPhone
  • In-line mic (will recable if required)
  • Isolation (Passive)
  • On-ear and/or relatively light-weight
  • Durability

 

Current options are:

  • Philips Downtown (AU$130)
  • Philips Uptown (AU$170)
  • PX200-11i (AU$150)
  • ATH-M50 (AU$160) - would recable if necessary
  • ATH-ES7 (AU$125) - as above
  • ATH-AD700 (AU$144) - as above
  • SRH440/840 (AU$105/180)
  • Grado SR80i (AU$130)
  • AKG K451 (AU$145)

 

Any other options are welcome!


It seems that you are asking about a portable can.  If so, you are in the wrong section of the forum.  You should post here:

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/632255/portable-iem-recommendations-thread-i-e-dont-start-a-new-thread-ask-for-advice-here-please-read-op

post #23559 of 29491
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hifi Man View Post

Hello. I recently purchased a pair of hifiman he-400s and a schiit audio modi DAC on a budget of 500 dollars. When I ordered this combination, it seemed like I was making the perfect decision. However, I didn't notice a comparable difference between my old headphones, or any headphones I own for that matter (I only used the logitech G35 before). The mistake I think I made is that I am not using an amplifier. Although I have few replies to go off of, it seems the majority of people here say this is my problem. It's starting to become apparent that these aren't the headphones for me, since I'm not able to spend more than my budget of 500 dollars on an amplifier. Is there a more suitable setup than this for my price range? It's going to be mostly used for listening to metal.


In case you are not aware, the new $99 Schiit Magni amp is touted as being able to drive the HE-500.  See:

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/640774/this-schiit-is-bananas-99-schiit-magni-amp-and-99-modi-dac

 

and

 

http://schiit.com/schiit-faq/about-magni/

post #23560 of 29491
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hifi Man View Post

I was thinking, maybe high end headphones aren't for me. I discovered that perhaps with metal (my main choice of music) the music isn't made with quality sounding production. Headphones like these he400s could actually make the music sound worse than my old beater headphones because they make flaws in production stand out. That being said, would high end headphones still be for me? Maybe high end headphones aren't for everyone?


Some headphones are more forgiving than others.  But that said; it makes not sense to me to spend significant money on cans to listen to poor recorded and engineered music.  For those of us who are much older, we know that there is only so much you can get out of a 78 rpm.

post #23561 of 29491
Quote:
Originally Posted by SandvichDISH View Post

Hey! I was wondering what to replace my dead Alessandro MS1i with! I have a budget of up to $400 and I primarily make Glitch Hop. I loved my MS1i's in general, and the HiFiMan HE-400 sounds like it could really fit my tastes, but I need to know about what's best for professional production use too. They should be at least as neutral as my MS1i, working with them was a charm. If anybody knows the best headphone in my price range for this use, please do tell!


Well...what about the MS-2?

 

For profession production use, I would look to a can that is more nuetral than any Allesandro or the HE-400.  The HE-500, Senn HD-600 and Shure SRH 940 come to mind as examples.

post #23562 of 29491

Hoping to get a little more info on the differences before I make my decision, but I am considering two models recommended here. One option is to go for the (based on reviews) neutral sound of the Superlux 668B, then get a "fun" option like the Grado SR60i or SR80i later on to compare. However, it may be a while before I get around to purchasing a second pair, and I think I may prefer the warmer sound of the Panasonic HTF600 to start. Plus, it's a bit cheaper after looking for the best price. Or should I hold out for the Grado to start with.

 

Panasonic HTF600 ($48 including shipping)

Superlux 668B (around $70 including shipping)

Grado 60i/80i (99/129 plus shipping)

 

Any further thoughts on these 3?

post #23563 of 29491
Quote:
Originally Posted by shackler View Post

Hoping to get a little more info on the differences before I make my decision, but I am considering two models recommended here. One option is to go for the (based on reviews) neutral sound of the Superlux 668B, then get a "fun" option like the Grado SR60i or SR80i later on to compare. However, it may be a while before I get around to purchasing a second pair, and I think I may prefer the warmer sound of the Panasonic HTF600 to start. Plus, it's a bit cheaper after looking for the best price. Or should I hold out for the Grado to start with.

 

Panasonic HTF600 ($48 including shipping)

Superlux 668B (around $70 including shipping)

Grado 60i/80i (99/129 plus shipping)

 

Any further thoughts on these 3?


Your profile does not indicate your home country, but those prices are higher than you have to pay in the US.

 

The Superlux is a great can for money (about $50 here), but it's not really neutral.  It's bright with a treble/upper mids spike. 

 

I'd go with the Grado SR 80i (or better Allesandro MS-1i).  However, some like (even love) the Grado sound signature and some don't.  Also some people have comfort issues with the Grado family cans.

post #23564 of 29491
Quote:
Originally Posted by KG Jag View Post


Well...what about the MS-2?

 

For profession production use, I would look to a can that is more nuetral than any Allesandro or the HE-400.  The HE-500, Senn HD-600 and Shure SRH 940 come to mind as examples.

Though what you say makes perfect sense, I don't think I really need anything more neutral than my Alessandro. As my dad (professional mastering studio owner) pointed out, something that matters more than a headphone being neutral is you knowing it. If you have a headphone for a long time you really know how it sounds and what you're hearing. He still uses his 10 year old HD250 for listening to things when he's out & about and has no access to his studio. While not being the best / most suitable headphones for his job, he knows them so well he has no problem using them. And from what I read the HE-400 sounds so much like it's my kind of headphone, I might look pas their slightly coloured nature. I can't afford the HE-500, sadly. 

 

But we'll see, as I'm far from done researching.

post #23565 of 29491
Quote:
Originally Posted by KG Jag View Post


Your profile does not indicate your home country, but those prices are higher than you have to pay in the US.

 

The Superlux is a great can for money (about $50 here), but it's not really neutral.  It's bright with a treble/upper mids spike. 

 

I'd go with the Grado SR 80i (or better Allesandro MS-1i).  However, some like (even love) the Grado sound signature and some don't.  Also some people have comfort issues with the Grado family cans.

 

Yeah, I'm in Canada. Less options on a # of models, and prices are generally higher. I'm really strongly leaning towards buying one of the cheaper options now and adding a Grado later, but it's a tough call. Out of the other two, slight lean to the Superlux but the price difference evens it out to the point where I can't decide.

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