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post #11566 of 29490
Quote:
Originally Posted by stv014 View Post


The HD598 has a more or less neutral frequency response, with less bass and treble, and more mids than the DT990.

 



In that case, which headphones do you suggest?

post #11567 of 29490
Quote:
Originally Posted by stv014 View Post


Ignore the "headphone impedance range" spec, it is only marketing, just like the frequency response specified by the manufacturer for headphones. The fact that the output voltage of the Audio 4 DJ halves with a 100Ω load suggests that it has 100Ω output impedance, which is not great for the AH-D2000. You want the output impedance to be clearly lower (preferably by a factor of 8 or more if possible, but at least 2-3) than that of the headphone. It would output about 15.4 mW to the Denon, and about 11.7 mW to the DT990, which is not too much but maybe enough (you will have to use high volume settings with the DT990) if you do not need particularly high volume or dynamic range.

For the E9, the 2 Vrms is not relevant, it is a line output level. The headphone output is actually about 7 Vrms max. through 10Ω output impedance if you use the 1/4" jack, or 43Ω output impedance if you use the 1/8" jack. Therefore, the E9 is a much more powerful source. In case you intend to upgrade the Audio 4 DJ to a Xonar Essence ST or STX, note that these have a built-in headphone amplifier that matches the maximum power and output impedance of the E9.

 



Just so you know you want the impedance to be the same in the driver/amp and the headphone, that is when you will get peak power out

Not lower in the output, thats not how power works

post #11568 of 29490
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenGiant View Post

Just so you know you want the impedance to be the same in the driver/amp and the headphone, that is when you will get peak power out


I am not sure you understood what I wrote, the output impedance of the source being as low as possible relative that of the load is an advantage not for the purpose of getting the maximum possible power, but to improve electrical damping, and ultimately sound quality. If the ratio of the load/source impedance is not high enough, it will change the frequency response, add resonance (typically in the bass range with full size dynamic headphones), and increase distortion, all of this due to less control over the drivers.

If you have a source with 0.5Ω output impedance, you definitely do not want a 0.5Ω headphone, and because of the limited current it would not even give the maximum power output anyway.

 

post #11569 of 29490

Recently bought from e-bay a pair of fake ath-m50 headphones and it was a terrible experience since i had to go with buyer protection way..

Now i am about to make another attempt from this seller http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Audio-Technica-ATH-M50-Professional-Studio-Monitor-Headphones-Black-New-/330679023943?pt=UK_AudioVisualElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Headphones&hash=item4cfe017947 , has anyone bought from him? Does he selling fakes also? I saw he is a top-rated-seller and also i checked his feedbacks and none was complaining about fakes, but i got to be sure before proceeding so if someone know something please let me know.

 

post #11570 of 29490
Quote:
Originally Posted by sabzingeur View Post

In that case, which headphones do you suggest?


Well, if the bass of the DT990 is not enough for you, and you want to stick with open headphones, you may consider the Pro version instead, or maybe the Ultrasone HFI 2400 or PRO 2900.

 

post #11571 of 29490

Not sure where you are from but can you order the real thing (click yellow tab for additional discount) from a real retailer like this:

 

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/ATH-M50s

 

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/ATH-M50

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by asvestomix View Post

Recently bought from e-bay a pair of fake ath-m50 headphones and it was a terrible experience since i had to go with buyer protection way..

Now i am about to make another attempt from this seller http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Audio-Technica-ATH-M50-Professional-Studio-Monitor-Headphones-Black-New-/330679023943?pt=UK_AudioVisualElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Headphones&hash=item4cfe017947 , has anyone bought from him? Does he selling fakes also? I saw he is a top-rated-seller and also i checked his feedbacks and none was complaining about fakes, but i got to be sure before proceeding so if someone know something please let me know.

 



 


Edited by noway - 1/30/12 at 6:04am
post #11572 of 29490
Quote:
Originally Posted by stv014 View Post


I am not sure you understood what I wrote, the output impedance of the source being as low as possible relative that of the load is an advantage not for the purpose of getting the maximum possible power, but to improve electrical damping, and ultimately sound quality. If the ratio of the load/source impedance is not high enough, it will change the frequency response, add resonance (typically in the bass range with full size dynamic headphones), and increase distortion, all of this due to less control over the drivers.

If you have a source with 0.5Ω output impedance, you definitely do not want a 0.5Ω headphone, and because of the limited current it would not even give the maximum power output anyway.

 


I understood entirely what you wrote, and the way that electronics work is by balancing

You need to get the most voltage (changes of which make the headphones move)

also you need the most current (more current means faster and farther response of the speakers)

Therefor you need the most power (Power is voltage * current) and to get the most power you need a totally balanced system

 

Basically you want headphones with as close an impedance to the amp/output that you want to use it with

 

from your example if you have a source with an output impedance of 0.5Ω you would most assuredly want headphones with an impedance of 0.5Ω or as close to that as possible, that is where you get the most power transfer

post #11573 of 29490
Quote:
Originally Posted by noway View Post

Not sure where you are from but can you order the real thing (click yellow tab for additional discount) from a real retailer like this:

 

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/ATH-M50s

 

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/ATH-M50

 

 



 

yes i know this store but i am from Greece and the shipping is 40-45$, i am sorry to say that but i am have a limited budget. I am trying to keep the overall price with shipping cost no more than 120-125 Euro (125 Euro is 164 Dollars).

 

post #11574 of 29490
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenGiant View Post

 

I understood entirely what you wrote, and the way that electronics work is by balancing

 

No, you have ignored my point regarding the damping factor both times.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenGiant View Post

 

from your example if you have a source with an output impedance of 0.5Ω you would most assuredly want headphones with an impedance of 0.5Ω or as close to that as possible, that is where you get the most power transfer


That is only true if the source can output enough current into the combined load of only 1Ω at the maximum voltage, which is quite possibly not the case. Good amplifiers are designed to have as low output impedance as possible, but can only supply limited current. For example, a speaker amp for 8Ω speakers may have an output impedance of less than 0.1Ω, but limited to a few A of current, which would make the theoretical "optimal" load of less than 0.1Ω (that is almost a short circuit) useless. A low output impedance also maximizes power efficiency, since a greater percentage of the power drawn from the supply is actually delivered to the load, rather than dissipated as heat.

 

But assume we are stuck with a source with very high output impedance (say, 100Ω) that is never current limited. While it is true that it will output the maximum possible power to a 100Ω load, the resulting damping factor of 1 is poor, and is sufficiently low to audibly change the sound. With a 300Ω load, the power output will decrease to 75% (that is only about 1.25 dB quieter) of the theoretical maximum, but the change from a damping factor of 1 to 3 is enough to be audible with many headphones, so in practice the improved sound quality is worth the minor reduction in power, unless loudness is everything you want. The 300Ω load will also deliver the 75% power while only drawing 50% compared to the 100Ω one from the supply.

 


Edited by stv014 - 1/30/12 at 6:34am
post #11575 of 29490

Hi guys, im currently looking for a pair of decent headphone. Most of the times i'll be using it to listen to music, and movies.

I have just receive a tube amps for my birthday gift, so im looking forward to use this amp. My budjet is below $200

 

I have tried the ATH-PRO5M honestly saying i like it.

closed or open design i wouldnt mind which one, maybe some isolation is better.

 

Thanks in advance for the guidance.

 

post #11576 of 29490
Quote:
Originally Posted by stv014 View Post


That is only true if the source can output enough current into the combined load of only 1Ω at the maximum voltage, which is quite possibly not the case. Good amplifiers are designed to have as low output impedance as possible, but can only supply limited current. For example, a speaker amp for 8Ω speakers may have an output impedance of less than 0.1Ω, but limited to a few A of current, which would make the theoretical "optimal" load of 0.1Ω (which is almost a short circuit) useless. A low output impedance also maximizes power efficiency, since a greater percentage of the power drawn from the supply is actually delivered to the load, rather than dissipated as heat.

 

But assume we are stuck with a source with very high output impedance (say, 100Ω) that is never current limited. While it is true that it will output the maximum possible power to a 100Ω load, the resulting damping factor of 1 is poor, and is sufficiently low to audibly change the sound. With a 300Ω load, the power output will decrease to 75% (that is only about 1.25 dB quieter) of the theoretical maximum, but the change from a damping factor of 1 to 3 is enough to be audible with many headphones, so in practice the improved sound quality is worth the minor reduction in power, unless loudness is everything you want. The 300Ω load will also deliver the 75% power while only drawing 50% compared to the 100Ω one from the supply.

 


First off if you have a 0.5Ω source and a 0.5Ω headphone the total resistance will not be 1Ω it will be .25

 

To quote Wikipedia (as my texts on amplifiers and speakers are just that, texts)

 

"Higher electrical damping of the loudspeaker is not necessarily better. Some loudspeakers sound better with lower electrical damping. A lower damping factor helps to greatly enhance the bass response of the loudspeaker, which is useful if only a single amplifier is used for the entire audio range."

 

and to calculate damping.... 

 

DF=Zload/Zsource

Where Z=impedance

 

Therefor you want as close to a balanced system as possible

 

This shows that we are both somewhat correct, if anything you do want the headphones to have a higher impedance than the source, BUT you also do want the impedance of each to be as close as possible in order to get the best damping rating

 

 

post #11577 of 29490
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenGiant View Post

 

First off if you have a 0.5Ω source and a 0.5Ω headphone the total resistance will not be 1Ω it will be .25

 

Wrong, since the resistances are serially connected, you have to sum them.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenGiant View Post
 

"Higher electrical damping of the loudspeaker is not necessarily better. Some loudspeakers sound better with lower electrical damping. A lower damping factor helps to greatly enhance the bass response of the loudspeaker, which is useful if only a single amplifier is used for the entire audio range."

 

That might be true sometimes, but modern loudspeakers and headphones are generally designed by the manufacturers with the assumption that they will be driven by a low impedance source. Some older headphones were optimized for use with a 120Ω source, but that is no longer typical. You might prefer the flabby bass or otherwise colored sound resulting from a low damping factor, but that is nevertheless not how the headphone was originally meant to sound. There is also the issue of increased distortion, as demonstrated here, for example.

For headphones, the general rule of thumb is that ideally you want the source impedance to be not more than 1/8th of the headphone impedance.

 

post #11578 of 29490
Quote:
Originally Posted by noway View Post

Not sure where you are from but can you order the real thing (click yellow tab for additional discount) from a real retailer like this:

 

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/ATH-M50s

 

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/ATH-M50

 

 



 

Well i am thinking to buy Refurbished from them, do Refurbished are actually like new with the same good audio quality and durability or they saying it to make easier for the buyer to buy them?
 

 

post #11579 of 29490
Quote:
Originally Posted by GruGruxKing View Post

New here.

Looking for a new pair of headphones.

Budget-$500 for amp and pair of headphones, if an amp is absolutely needed.

They will be used for minor gaming, mostly for music. The thing is that I listen to almost everything. From Dave Matthews to In Flames, Tech N9ne to KoL, Tupac to Ben Harper. 

Basically looking for a good all around headphone.

 



Any other suggestions? I was thinking a set of HD 600 and a Maverick Audio A1.

post #11580 of 29490
Quote:
Originally Posted by GruGruxKing View Post



Any other suggestions? I was thinking a set of HD 600 and a Maverick Audio A1.



Sorry for the double post but since I listen to a wide variety of music, would it be a better idea to get a set of cans for rock/acoustic/metal and a set for rap/dubstep?

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