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Show us your Head-Fi station at it's current state. No old pictures please... - Page 890

post #13336 of 18445
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tus-Chan View Post

I've never heard a nice vinyl rig in person before, but if the surface noise is as bad as it sounds on a lot of the pro vinyl rips I've got, I would be hard pressed to be able to enjoy a vinyl rig of any quality.

Yeah I know what you mean. A lot of the ones going round aren't that great...  I recently compared the Radiohead discography 24 bit vinyl rip to my other 320 mp3 one and the mp3 was like a cleaner window onto the music. But! you are still playing the music through a digital medium. I'm sure a great deck>phono stage>amp will be a much more rewarding experience. ?

post #13337 of 18445
Quote:
Originally Posted by khaine1711 View Post

That's what you get for using cheapo TT + cartridge and drop-in 50 bucks soundcard rolleyes.gif
. I guess it has something to do with the LP used too. Thankfully the "vinyl rip" trend tends to calm down a bit now and we don't have to swim through a load of noisy rip to find a decent one.


There's some rare rip by people with multi thousands rig, and sound noticably better than the red book cd (mostly coz the cd version was brickwalled/crapstatically mastered) - and noise-free too. Vinyl rips got potential, I myself would pay more to get them rather than brickwalled but high res recording - but DSD is buzzword on today market.

Even with an inexpensive turntable you can get your records quiet. I had a Dual 701 with AT70 cartridge, the key was cleaning the records prior to listening to them. I've got an old discwasher brush and some DIY cleaning fluid. Works great. With that setup my records were near as quiet as this guy's: http://www.youtube.com/user/BSD2000 Of course I wasn't getting the sound quality of his various turntables. And none of my records are 'audiophile grade', in all honesty I haven't a clue who pressed them. Most are the Back on Black label, the rest just random indie labels. wink.gif Although you do need a good phono stage. My old Sherwoods introduced a bit of noise to the signal, but I've had none with my Graham Slee.

I can listen to ambient electronica on vinyl no problem. Just stay away from the picture discs if you hate surface noise.
Edited by MohawkUS - 5/10/13 at 5:03pm
post #13338 of 18445

I don't have a clue on how to do vinyl rips. But most of the distributed vinyl rips are noisy as hell. I've heard many budget vinyl setups that are noise free. But we're talking about transferring vinyl to flac here =p.

 

I'm still chewing through them everyday, hoping to find decent rips of stuff that won't see the light of a decent cd mastering anytime soon.

post #13339 of 18445

That's what you get for using cheapo TT + cartridge and drop-in 50 bucks soundcard rolleyes.gif.

 

I wouldn't just assume that it sounds bad because the equipment is bad. I have a 24-bit rip of LCD Soundsystem's "Sound of Silver" ripped with:


RCM: Nitty Gritty Record Master I

Table: VPI HW-19 MKIII with corian plinth on sorbathane pucks

Tonearm: Rega RB-250 w/ cardas rewire

Cartridge: Ortofon Kontrapunkt A w/Soundsmith Ruby Cantilever Re-tip

Pre-Amp: Pro-Ject Tube Box II w/ 2x12AX7 Telefunken Ribbed Plate Tubes

Cables: Custom – Canare quad core cabling with neutrix RCA ends

Interface: Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi HD Sound Card – USB

Computer: MacBook Pro 2.2 GHz Intel Core i7; Mac OS 10.8.2

Software: Amadeus Pro / MusicBrainz Picard

 

The surface noise is pretty meh.

post #13340 of 18445
Quote:
Originally Posted by OPR8R View Post

OPR8R is spending too much time on Head-Fi today tongue_smile.gif

 

That's 'Miles Davis - Kind of Blue'.  It epitomizes why vinyl.

 

"Miles?" You my friend, are justified :thumb: for taking time out of your busy schedule... TGIF!

post #13341 of 18445
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tus-Chan View Post

 

I wouldn't just assume that it sounds bad because the equipment is bad. I have a 24-bit rip of LCD Soundsystem's "Sound of Silver" ripped with:

 

The surface noise is pretty meh.

Like I said, I don't have a clue bigsmile_face.gif. Could be the method, could be that you need a really high quality ADC (Hilo/Aurora/Forsell), could be anything really.

 

Most vinyl rips sound noisy. Some are marvelous though. I have a rip of Anyone's daughter - Adonis that sound better than both the original CD and the remastered; relatively no noise either, but it did clip once or twice - what a pity frown.gif.


Edited by khaine1711 - 5/10/13 at 5:43pm
post #13342 of 18445
Quote:
Originally Posted by OPR8R View Post

My table picks up more surface noise on some LP's than on others.  On my best LP's (Kind of Blue is a good example), there's little-to-no surface noise.  A dirty record can sound pretty bad though.  The upside is that good, clean LP's can sound better than CD's.

It's probably your cart more than your table. The Black is notourious for revealng pops, clicks, and general noise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tus-Chan View Post

I wouldn't just assume that it sounds bad because the equipment is bad. I have a 24-bit rip of LCD Soundsystem's "Sound of Silver" ripped with:

The surface noise is pretty meh.

Their soundcard blows though. If your A/D is bad the whole thing will be bad.
post #13343 of 18445

You can't really tell, but I tossed my AKG K240 and FiiO E11 and iPod classic in the air. This represents the statement that everywhere is my headphone station. Just the way I like it.

post #13344 of 18445

Im really tempted to open up my 200g Kind of Blue.... I've never opened it, but if the CD rips sound that good, I can only wonder how great it sounds on vinyl. I also have "A Love Supreme" on 180g. Both have yet to be opened, but I want to..... GAHHH

post #13345 of 18445
Quote:
Originally Posted by LugBug1 View Post

Yeah I know what you mean. A lot of the ones going round aren't that great...  I recently compared the Radiohead discography 24 bit vinyl rip to my other 320 mp3 one and the mp3 was like a cleaner window onto the music. But! you are still playing the music through a digital medium. I'm sure a great deck>phono stage>amp will be a much more rewarding experience. ?

 

What you observed is because the majority of music today is digitally recorded and digitally mastered -- digital all the way through. There's not much reason to listen to vinyl from this kind of mastered music, except for fun, because the sound quality won't be there. It will in fact be worse because you took a digital source and put it to vinyl, and then ripped it back to digital. That's kind of like taking a digital photo, printing out on your printer, and then snapping another photo of it. The new photo you took isn't magically going to be better quality than the original.

 

That said, I do know Radiohead at least analog records/masters *some* parts of their music, but unfortunately, 99% of the kids with turntables today do so because they are wannabe hipsters or heard that vinyl sounds better, not understanding the aforementioned caveat. Expectation bias at its finest. 

 

If you can find a truly analog recorded/mastered record though, the depth of music can be a breath of fresh air.

post #13346 of 18445
Quote:
Originally Posted by khaine1711 View Post

I don't have a clue on how to do vinyl rips. But most of the distributed vinyl rips are noisy as hell. I've heard many budget vinyl setups that are noise free. But we're talking about transferring vinyl to flac here =p.

 

I'm still chewing through them everyday, hoping to find decent rips of stuff that won't see the light of a decent cd mastering anytime soon.

 

A lot of it depends on how they compensate for the noise and what kind of mastering is done afterwards. As much as I love LCD Soundsystem, bands like this are not worth listening to on vinyl, for the reasons I mentioned above. 

post #13347 of 18445
Quote:
Originally Posted by tintin220 View Post

 

A lot of it depends on how they compensate for the noise and what kind of mastering is done afterwards. As much as I love LCD Soundsystem, bands like this are not worth listening to on vinyl, for the reasons I mentioned above. 

I don't even know the band though I did remember Tus-chan liking electronic music.

 

Several times I listen to Paranoid by Black Sabbath on vinyl - and I haven't heard better. One wonders with the money Ozzy makes, he should have at least release a decent remaster of the studio version.

post #13348 of 18445
Quote:
Originally Posted by OPR8R View Post

I'm thinking I should be done upgrading for a bit.  Here's a recent shot.

 

 

Pic (Click to show)

Excellent selection for the evening :) How do Mim and Liv sound outta those LCD-2s? 

post #13349 of 18445
Quote:
Originally Posted by tintin220 View Post

What you observed is because the majority of music today is digitally recorded and digitally mastered -- digital all the way through. There's not much reason to listen to vinyl from this kind of mastered music, except for fun, because the sound quality won't be there.

I've actually found that isn't true. It may be the fact that the digital releases have been brickwalled(while the vinyl have not) or it may be the fact that the music was mastered at a much higher resolution compared to the CD or 'hi-res' release; but I've found that it isn't a big a deal as you'd think whether the music was mastered/recorded digital or analog.
post #13350 of 18445
Quote:
Originally Posted by MohawkUS View Post


I've actually found that isn't true. It may be the fact that the digital releases have been brickwalled(while the vinyl have not) or it may be the fact that the music was mastered at a much higher resolution compared to the CD or 'hi-res' release; but I've found that it isn't a big a deal as you'd think whether the music was mastered/recorded digital or analog.

 

I do agree with you that it isn't that big of a deal, but seeing as this is a hobby where the minute differences are exaggerated as day and night, I wanted to just set the record straight so to speak, which is that analog cannot magically make quality appear in a digitally mastered record. This is just fact, period. Most of the time, modern digitally mastered music is worse as a vinyl than it is on CD, and is sold primarily at a premium because it is a niche, novelty item. I'm just trying to explain why some people have noted that analog rips of modern music don't seem to sound better to them, and that's because it usually, but not always, isn't! I never said it was a big deal or that it's that substantially worse in vinyl, but just that it is worse usually, not better. So, if you're buying a digitally mastered vinyl today expecting superior sound quality, you're probably going to be disappointed depending on how it was mastered. (Plus, let's not forget, the majority of people here don't have the $x000 vinyl rigs; it's cheaper to get more out of digital than it is to get a proportional amount of performance out of an analog rig.)

 

There are two reasons, however, where modern vinyl releases *may* appear to sound better than CDs. The first is exactly what you said -- sometimes, but not often and certainly not always, the CDs get mastered further to increase overall loudness, so in this case, the analog version that goes to vinyl is actually just objectively better was far as dynamic range is concerned. A second reason is that vinyl playback, depending on equipment, imparts its own coloration based on the needle, (pre)amps, and any equalization/normalization that goes into this. Hell, some of us, myself included, even like the little pops and clicks that make the music seem more intimate. That, however, is more to do with a listener's tastes, and results from the equipment (and dare I say, "flaws" in the vinyl, beautiful sounding though they may be), not because of any virtues in analog resolution vs digital.

 

For me, listening to vinyl, unless I am actually listening to a beautifully mastered record in analog, is not SQ, but the experience. Because that's what music listening is, right? An experience -- and that implies multiple areas and senses of engagement, not just aural. Basically, listening to vinyl is fun, even if I know my Purity Ring, M83, Beach House, or brand-spankin-new-in-the-mail 20th Anniversary Postal Service records sounds worse than it did right off the CD.


Edited by tintin220 - 5/10/13 at 7:15pm
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