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Show us your Head-Fi station at it's current state. No old pictures please... - Page 887

post #13291 of 18630
Quote:
Originally Posted by HesterDW View Post

Some of these setups are truly humbling. Lots of respect for a lot of these.

 

 

 

In the end, its as long as we enjoy our music right? wink.gif

post #13292 of 18630
Quote:
Originally Posted by khaine1711 View Post

Tube when done right, isn't "adding distortion". That's what crazed objectivist and sellers want you to believe. Case in point is the BHSE, 4x tubes and extremely low distortion. Overgeneralizing like that is like saying all NOS roll off treble, and all delta-sigma dacs sound like crap. On the same topic, the lampi is more linear than most thing that I've heard (including NOS stuff, various delta sigma Dacs - including many Sabre stuff which people usually claim "most detailed", and R2R). The thing that the Lampi really stands out for is the tone and soundstage. 

 

I've been through most dacs in the market, if the Lampi is distortion and "roll a tube get a random sound" I wouldn't have kept it. I think you heard HC's Hilo, the thing use an opamp output stage, yet you can't really say that it's worse than a discrete stage - implementation is key.

 

Actually, that's exactly what tubes do. That's not to say a tube device necessarily has high distortion, but it will in general have more of it by nature of the tubes themselves, regardless of implementation. Certainly, tube amps for instance with extremely low distortion do exist, even at levels that are inaudible, but you're not likely to ever see a design that can match the distortion floor attainable solid state in this technical aspect. Plus, the BHSE is an exception, not a rule; the vast majority of audiophile tube amps, etc. today have audible and measurable levels of distortion by their own published specs far exceeding that of the BHSE and 99% of solid states. That's the tube sound we all know and love.

 

So, they are factually not as accurate as solid state, there is zero disputing that. I think you're conflating the term distortion with lack of detail; something can have high distortion but still produce sound of exceptional separation and clarity. Instead, what the distortion does is it colors the sound.

 

However, that doesn't mean it's bad. Remember, when you're dealing with gear of a certain high enough standard and quality, the minute differences in technical capability cease to be substantiative compared to sound signature, such as the coloration from the tubes. It just becomes an issue of whether or not you like the sound of the gear, or whether it matches well with other gear per your personal tastes, what people call synergy. 

 

Tubes add distortion, but many, myself included, just happen to like this distortion a lot. 

 

However, I too am of the opinion that a tube DAC doesn't make much sense unless you know exactly what you want to pair it with or have a chance to experiment/audition. Every component you add that has its own coloration is another thing you have to match. It's much easier to find a set of headphones that play nice per your tastes with an amp and a neutral DAC then to match the headphones with the amp AND the DAC. 


Edited by tintin220 - 5/9/13 at 7:41pm
post #13293 of 18630
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post

 

 

I've been looking at the Lampi, I just can't wrap my head around a tube dac.  I guess for the lack of detail or reason.  Why would you want to add distortion at the DAC level.  That's the question I have.  I was thinking might as well go for a NOS DAC instead..

Because you're a solid state guy biggrin.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by khaine1711 View Post

Tube when done right, isn't "adding distortion". That's what crazed objectivist and sellers want you to believe. Case in point is the BHSE, 4x tubes and extremely low distortion. Overgeneralizing like that is like saying all NOS roll off treble, and all delta-sigma dacs sound like crap. On the same topic, the lampi is more linear than most thing that I've heard (including NOS stuff, various delta sigma Dacs - including many Sabre stuff which people usually claim "most detailed", and R2R). The thing that the Lampi really stands out for is the tone and soundstage. 

 

I've been through most dacs in the market, if the Lampi is distortion and "roll a tube get a random sound" I wouldn't have kept it. I think you heard HC's Hilo, the thing use an opamp output stage, yet you can't really say that it's worse than a discrete stage - implementation is key.

Bingo and spot on. To me when I had the L4 to my system, the best thing that stood that was a euphonic sounding intimacy it brought me and my music together. I guess this can be tone which I for one will agree strongly if that is what you meant. See I have the money for a L5 but I can't justify spending on something so expensive (despite how well it is) when I have no space for it. The l4 was massive and heavy when I lugged it around.


Edited by DefQon - 5/9/13 at 7:37pm
post #13294 of 18630
Quote:
Originally Posted by tintin220 View Post

Tubes add distortion, but many, myself included, just happen to like this distortion a lot. 

 

Tube distortion is awesome biggrin.gif. It just adds that extra meat to the layering of your music. Solid state to me in most cases can be either too empty, too cold, too bright, too brittle or too gentle with a few that does it just right. I like meat to the bone and this is where the wonders of tube rolling comes in. 

post #13295 of 18630
Quote:
Originally Posted by DefQon View Post

Tube distortion is awesome biggrin.gif. It just adds that extra meat to the layering of your music. Solid state to me in most cases can be either too empty, too cold, too bright, too brittle or too gentle with a few that does it just right. I like meat to the bone and this is where the wonders of tube rolling comes in. 

 

I completely agree, but recognize that this is just my taste and others might consider exactly what we love to be too dull or not analytical enough. One man's trash, another's treasure.

post #13296 of 18630

Indeed.

post #13297 of 18630
Quote:
Originally Posted by tintin220 View Post

 

\That's not to say a tube device necessarily has high distortion

 

However, I too am of the opinion that a tube DAC doesn't make much sense unless you know exactly what you want to pair it with or have a chance to experiment/audition. Every component you add that has its own coloration is another thing you have to match. It's much easier to find a set of headphones that play nice per your tastes with an amp and a neutral DAC then to match the headphones with the amp AND the DAC. 

My point exactly.

 

Lemme be clear that I don't like the so called "tube coloration" or euphonic one may call. The only thing I really like about tube is the realism in tone (think Piano/Pipe Organ) and the soundstage. I did certainly find that in some solid state gears, but they're hella expensive compared to tube alternatives.

 

Yes, in theories solid state is more accurate - as in distortion. However the coloration you talk about is present in a solid state too. I.e. roll opamp; hell even in a discreet state if I just change several parts around, it would change the sound too. Solid state got their own problem too, implement them "good on paper" only and you may get something really nasty (Mytek/Benchmark Dac1 comes to mind, both has excellent measurement but the sound ...)

 

The Lampi in this instance is vastly different from the so called audiophile tube stuff. You can't roll tube (void warranty if unauthorized; also they sound the same); and like I said, the thing is more linear/neutral than many solid state Dac that I had. I do dislike tube dac that you roll tube and the sound changes - from the budget Havana to the holy crap expensive Zanden signature.

 

After a certain level, "more detailed" to me means different presentation mostly. It's not like when I switched to the Eximus, some details "pops out" - or "wasn't there before". I haven't heard some of the so called "detail monster" dac though (dCS, MSB or even the Weiss)

 

They're both there in two dacs, but the Eximus focus on the small cues, while the lampi got really nice 3d soundstage. When it comes to tone/realism, the Lampi really pulls ahead - both can reveal the resonance of the wooden hammer in piano - but the Lampi sounds like real piano; and the Eximus sounds like piano play back through a speaker/headphone for a lack of expression.

 

Quote:
Because you're a solid state guy biggrin.gif

 

Bingo and spot on. To me when I had the L4 to my system, the best thing that stood that was a euphonic sounding intimacy it brought me and my music together. I guess this can be tone which I for one will agree strongly if that is what you meant. See I have the money for a L5 but I can't justify spending on something so expensive (despite how well it is) when I have no space for it. The l4 was massive and heavy when I lugged it around.

 

 

Tone for me is that an instrument, going through the Dac/Amp, sound as close as in a concert/real life as possible. Of course that depends largely on the tranducer, but Dac and Amp also play a big role. On the same topic I think Reel to reel, and vinyl sounds more life-like than anything digital.


Edited by khaine1711 - 5/9/13 at 8:03pm
post #13298 of 18630

Which level you packing khaine?

post #13299 of 18630
Quote:
Originally Posted by DefQon View Post

Which level you packing khaine?

Gen4 lv3 atm. I got the choices of Gen 4 level3, and duh Gen 3 level 4. Problem is the gen 3 lv4 does not have USB input - while the level 3 got the new USB module fitted. Even though the gap between level 3 and 4 is quite large, the upgrade cost and transport is really closed to a new Lv4 Gen 4.

 

In a few months, I will get the chance to hear both level 4 and level 5 of gen 4, and decide which one to trade for bigsmile_face.gif. I plan to get the level 5, but the upgrade cap and other options price kinda wrinkles my scrotum rolleyes.gif. Plus there's still the AMR 777 that I haven't heard (8 hours train to nearest dealer). Also I need to travel to Germany to try the BMC Dac1 Pre and the Acoustic Art tube dac. The Eximus kind of rekindles my interest in delta-sigma dac - a bit coloured, but very special indeed.

 

Still hella curious about the level 6 - it seems like nobody ever placed an order.


Edited by khaine1711 - 5/9/13 at 8:15pm
post #13300 of 18630

Nice. As of recent I've seen a gen 3 or 4 forgot which level 3 on sale from the UK or Europe on ebay for around $1500 auction no one has bidded and it is the smaller slimmer chassis one, was thinking of bidding on it but I've heard the l4 and it was just too good for my own good which I have to get or a l5 with balanced but a bit pricier. 

 

I haven't heard of anyone buying a level 6 yet either, but yet again Lukaz has stated that the l6 is a completely decked out with overkill components categorised in state-of-the-art only. No balanced though :(.

post #13301 of 18630
Pictures?
post #13302 of 18630

 

 

My new HD650's!

post #13303 of 18630
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfetan44 View Post

My new HD650's!

 

Good complementing can to your 600ohm DT880 Prem's too. beerchug.gif

post #13304 of 18630

So I'm kind of in a transition period, so to speak...

 

 

post #13305 of 18630
Quote:
Originally Posted by EraserXIV View Post

So I'm kind of in a transition period, so to speak...

 

Going to give away that Crack ? :D

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