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Show us your Head-Fi station at it's current state. No old pictures please... - Page 735

post #11011 of 18743
Quote:
Originally Posted by olor1n View Post

 

 

 

Fwiw, It's a demanding headphone, infamous for highlighting deficiencies in a chain. Your source also has to be equal to the task. It baffles me that so much focus is placed on amping requirements. Sure, the HD800 demands (a relatively high minimum level) of quality amplification compared to other headphones, but too often people put all their eggs in that basket. The possibility that the source component is the culprit is often overlooked. Careful consideration has to be taken with all components when building a system around the HD800. Anyone who has spent time with this headphone knows this. Those who haven't will regurgitate the old myths of grating treble, lack of bass and unnatural imaging.

I'd say thats the same with all good headphones. If any of the above (bolded) is happening with a modern mid price dac and amp, then it has to be a fault of the headphone (and maybe recordings) and not the equipment. Theres far too many comments on the HD800 needing certain requirements to calm the treble and boost the bass to ignore; And that would be called coloring the headphone, which is different to pursuing super high end transparency.  But as you say.. this is for another thread.

post #11012 of 18743
Quote:
Originally Posted by LugBug1 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by olor1n View Post

 

 

 

Fwiw, It's a demanding headphone, infamous for highlighting deficiencies in a chain. Your source also has to be equal to the task. It baffles me that so much focus is placed on amping requirements. Sure, the HD800 demands (a relatively high minimum level) of quality amplification compared to other headphones, but too often people put all their eggs in that basket. The possibility that the source component is the culprit is often overlooked. Careful consideration has to be taken with all components when building a system around the HD800. Anyone who has spent time with this headphone knows this. Those who haven't will regurgitate the old myths of grating treble, lack of bass and unnatural imaging.

I'd say thats the same with all good headphones. If any of the above (bolded) is happening with a modern mid price dac and amp, then it has to be a fault of the headphone (and maybe recordings) and not the equipment. Theres far too many comments on the HD800 needing certain requirements to calm the treble and boost the bass to ignore; And that would be called coloring the headphone, which is different to pursuing super high end transparency.  But as you say.. this is for another thread.

 

It's actually the opposite of your assumption from my experience. The HD800 is such a transparent headphone that it demands the same from the ancillary components. Other headphones are just not as capable at rendering everything fed to it. Case in point, the LCD-2. Sounds great from the Gungnir/Mjolnir stack. Very little to complain about. The HD800 however exposed the Gungnir as inadequate and replacing it with the NAD M51 confirmed this. The M51 is a touch warmer than the Gungnir but the Schiit is hardly the last word in neutrality and you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who has heard the M51 label it as coloured. What it is is a natural sounding DAC that actually imposes less of its inherent signature on the presentation than the Gungnir. So in essence it's more transparent and allows the HD800 to do its thing.

 

I think people that go down the path of tubes, EQ and mods to colour and tame the HD800 are those who find issue with its inherent FR signature. Ask those people to listen to the HD800 from a neutral (whatever that means) and transparent setup and I'd suspect you'd find very few who would still claim "grating treble, lack of bass and unnatural imaging". If they're honest, some may say the treble is still too extended, or the bass lacks some colouration and emphasis for their preference.

 

Bending the HD800 to your preference and getting the best from it can be two separate pursuits, you're right in that regard. It's not a fault of the HD800 though if some people want a different FR signature from it and use gear to achieve that. Not everyone with the HD800 has this goal though. Deficiencies in a chain still need to be addressed however to alleviate the HD800's capacity to spotlight weaknesses.


Edited by olor1n - 2/9/13 at 4:15pm
post #11013 of 18743
New horse in the stable. =)

First impressions are very very positive.

post #11014 of 18743
Double post.
post #11015 of 18743
Quote:
Originally Posted by olor1n View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by LugBug1 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by olor1n View Post

 

 

 

Fwiw, It's a demanding headphone, infamous for highlighting deficiencies in a chain. Your source also has to be equal to the task. It baffles me that so much focus is placed on amping requirements. Sure, the HD800 demands (a relatively high minimum level) of quality amplification compared to other headphones, but too often people put all their eggs in that basket. The possibility that the source component is the culprit is often overlooked. Careful consideration has to be taken with all components when building a system around the HD800. Anyone who has spent time with this headphone knows this. Those who haven't will regurgitate the old myths of grating treble, lack of bass and unnatural imaging.

I'd say thats the same with all good headphones. If any of the above (bolded) is happening with a modern mid price dac and amp, then it has to be a fault of the headphone (and maybe recordings) and not the equipment. Theres far too many comments on the HD800 needing certain requirements to calm the treble and boost the bass to ignore; And that would be called coloring the headphone, which is different to pursuing super high end transparency.  But as you say.. this is for another thread.

 

It's actually the opposite of your assumption from my experience. The HD800 is such a transparent headphone that it demands the same from the ancillary components. Other headphones are just not as capable at rendering everything fed to it. Case in point, the LCD-2. Sounds great from the Gungnir/Mjolnir stack. Very little to complain about. The HD800 however exposed the Gungnir as inadequate and replacing it with the NAD M51 confirmed this. The M51 is a touch warmer than the Gungnir but the Schiit is hardly the last word in neutrality and you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who has heard the M51 label it as coloured. What it is is a natural sounding DAC that actually imposes less of its inherent signature on the presentation than the Gungnir. So in essence it's more transparent and allows the HD800 to do its thing.

 

I think people that go down the path of tubes, EQ and mods to colour and tame the HD800 are those who find issue with its inherent FR signature. Ask those people to listen to the HD800 from a neutral (whatever that means) and transparent setup and I'd suspect you'd find very few who would still claim "grating treble, lack of bass and unnatural imaging". If they're honest, some may say the treble is still too extended, or the bass lacks some colouration and emphasis for their preference.

 

Bending the HD800 to your preference and getting the best from it can be two separate pursuits, you're right in that regard. It's not a fault of the HD800 though if some people want a different FR signature from it and use gear to achieve that. Not everyone with the HD800 has this goal though. Deficiencies in a chain still need to be addressed however to alleviate the HD800's capacity to spotlight weaknesses.

Does that mean the O2/ODAC is good for it?tongue.gif

post #11016 of 18743
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfetan44 View Post

Does that mean the O2/ODAC is good for it?tongue.gif

"Drive virtually any full size cans including 600 Ohm and current hungry planar models!" :P 

post #11017 of 18743
I've gotten my Sennys back, can't take a picture as the iPhone won't let me upload pictures due to some ******** apple excuse.
post #11018 of 18743
Quote:
Originally Posted by wes008 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfetan44 View Post

Does that mean the O2/ODAC is good for it?tongue.gif

"Drive virtually any full size cans including 600 Ohm and current hungry planar models!" :P 

What?

post #11019 of 18743
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfetan44 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by wes008 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfetan44 View Post

Does that mean the O2/ODAC is good for it?tongue.gif

"Drive virtually any full size cans including 600 Ohm and current hungry planar models!" :P 

What?

 

I sometimes listened to the HD800 straight from the MBP and enjoyed it. I'd never tell others to stop there though. I'm sure the o2/odac faithful will preach the absurdity of going beyond their end-game.

post #11020 of 18743
Quote:
Originally Posted by olor1n View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfetan44 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by wes008 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfetan44 View Post

Does that mean the O2/ODAC is good for it?tongue.gif

"Drive virtually any full size cans including 600 Ohm and current hungry planar models!" :P 

What?

 

I sometimes listened to the HD800 straight from the MBP and enjoyed it. I'd never tell others to stop there though. I'm sure the o2/odac faithful will preach the absurdity of going beyond their end-game.

I just won't be able to upgrade 1 or 2 years after my purchase of a HD800. 

post #11021 of 18743

I sometimes listened to the HD800 straight from the MBP and enjoyed it. I'd never tell others to stop there though. I'm sure the o2/odac faithful will preach the absurdity of going beyond their end-game.

 

Hey, I'm not going to say that the O2 and ODAC are the absolute last word in DACs and amps, but unless I had a very power hungry headphone (more on this later), I see little to no reason to upgrade from it, especially at the price point differences.

I think the ODAC is good enough for anyone who isn't looking for end-game gear. I wish the O2 put out a bit more power (it kind of sucks at high gain). Their form factors are also horrendous. That's it. I have a dedicated amp for my Stax, for obvious reasons, but aside from that I think my O2 and ODAC are good enough. I think spending lots and lots of money on end-game sources and amps is a bad choice unless you have lots of money to burn. You get to a point of diminishing returns and at some point you have to ask yourself if spending fortunes for small returns is really worth it.

 

I would say putting my money into getting the best headphones is a much more worthy quest. A fantastic source and amp will still sound like rubbish out of Beats Solos. Conversely, a Sony R10 would probably still sound pretty darn good out of an iPod (not like I could speak from experience, though). The headphone you use is 90% of the sound and to be spending as much on amps and DACs as you are on the headphones, to me, is not worthwhile and simply distracts from the real point of our hobby - enjoying the music.

 

Anyway, this is all off-topic and I think if any further discussion needs to be made, it should be taken to PM.


Edited by Tus-Chan - 2/9/13 at 5:45pm
post #11022 of 18743
quoted for posterity (Click to show)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tus-Chan View Post

I sometimes listened to the HD800 straight from the MBP and enjoyed it. I'd never tell others to stop there though. I'm sure the o2/odac faithful will preach the absurdity of going beyond their end-game.

 

Hey, I'm not going to say that the O2 and ODAC are the absolute last word in DACs and amps, but unless I had a very power hungry headphone (more on this later), I see little to no reason to upgrade from it, especially at the price point differences.

I think the ODAC is good enough for anyone who isn't looking for end-game gear. I wish the O2 put out a bit more power (it kind of sucks at high gain). Their form factors are also horrendous. That's it. I have a dedicated amp for my Stax, for obvious reasons, but aside from that I think my O2 and ODAC are good enough. I think spending lots and lots of money on end-game sources and amps is a bad choice unless you have lots of money to burn. You get to a point of diminishing returns and at some point you have to ask yourself if spending fortunes for small returns is really worth it.

 

I would say putting my money into getting the best headphones is a much more worthy quest. A fantastic source and amp will still sound like rubbish out of Beats Solos. Conversely, a Sony R10 would probably still sound pretty darn good out of an iPod (not like I could speak from experience, though). The headphone you use is 90% of the sound and to be spending as much on amps and DACs as you are on the headphones, to me, is not worthwhile and simply distracts from the real point of our hobby - enjoying the music.

 

Anyway, this is all off-topic and I think if any further discussion needs to be made, it should be taken to PM.

 

 

LOL! Like clockwork. At least you guys are consistent. biggrin.gif


Edited by olor1n - 2/9/13 at 6:23pm
post #11023 of 18743


Does this headphone look familiar? biggrin.gif not quite the same level of photograpgphy but IPad was in my hands.
IMO though I totally agree HD800 needs a good source and DAC if you are using it with transparent solid state amplifier. HD800 lets you hear what your gear sounds like with pretty brutal honesty.
post #11024 of 18743
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfetan44 View Post

What?

A quote from NwAvGuy :P

post #11025 of 18743
Quote:
Originally Posted by drez View Post



Does this headphone look familiar? biggrin.gif not quite the same level of photograpgphy but IPad was in my hands.
IMO though I totally agree HD800 needs a good source and DAC if you are using it with transparent solid state amplifier. HD800 lets you hear what your gear sounds like with pretty brutal honesty.

 

Nice. Was the Bel Canto worth it?

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