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post #3586 of 3613
Quote:
Originally Posted by eke2k6 View Post

 

 

You know what, it seems you don't understand Fiio's philosophy. Let me help with that

 

How I see it, they create a product lineup, with each one at a different price point. At each point, they look at what they can/can't accomplish within that budget, and do market research to discern what the consumers need the most. The X3 was designed to take on the ipod, by better overall SQ, while trying to maintain Apple's magical UI. The component choices are dictated by price, above all else. When you decide on - for instance- a DAC, you design almost everything around it, like the power components, capacitors, and the amp chip to some extent. In other words, schiit adds up quickly.

 

The key here is the business model. I sincerely doubt the company would change something like that because of a few outliers.

 

I haven't even glanced twice at the Tera Player because I see it as a glorified ipod shuffle. The DX100 is a buggy cement block, and the AK100 is just expensive. Fiio has done a great job in the past of making affordable gateway drugs into this maddening hobby, all without "help" from you all. I'm also sure they've made a suitable profit from it, or they wouldn't be in business.

 

Leave them alone, or start your own company. If you find that magic combination, I may be your third customer (the first two would be guinea pigs).

 

lol, I said if you have less unnecessary features on the dap, the manufacturer will have more time to focus on the SQ of the player and also spending less money on the hardware and you are acting like I said I want all those stupid features for $300

 

but according to you it's impossible to have better SQ and less features for around $300 or less!

 

 I am going to requote my quote for you:

 

so eke2k6 it's impossible to come up with a magic combination to come up with an excellent dap for around $300 without making any profit, I see why you are not your own boss nor a business owner!

 

 

do you know something about the O2 and its designer?

 

I wonder also who invented the Mont Blanc E12?

 

I see that you know a lot about how to run a business, but do you actually own one and  know to manufacture and sell products? or you are like the fan who watches all the games of his team and then thinks he can be a coach?


Edited by Gorillaz - 2/17/13 at 1:29pm
post #3587 of 3613

LOL Just stop with these comparisons. Just like Fiio created the e12 it could have made a better Dap than X3 if that's what the current goal was. I'm sure James knows what he's doing and how to make a profit - he's not telling you how to make and sell glass coz he doesn't know how and you don't know how much money and time it costs to make a "magical" $300 DAP. As far as the 02 I'm pretty sure nwavguy isn't making a fortune out of it and no one knows what's happened to him (he's MIA) but he did that just like a DIY project that could possibly turn in some profit - he didn't invest any money in advertising, paying employees to help him or anything like that and you have no idea how much he spent on R&D till he got everything right. There are a lot of DIY products out there that are great but there's no one to invest in them and take the risk. Fiio will be taking a huge risk to go all the way into the development of something in which it has zero experience - making higher-end DAPs. And you're still going at it without even having heard the X3. It's like if I told you that I want to make a huge custom glass order from you but I need it to be made out of a new type of glass that is better than anything else and what you currently offer and you have to create that new type of glass on your own and invest a huge amount of your money into its development but the catch is that you'll have to sell it to me at the same price as your cheaper stuff. So in the end you make zero profit and you've wasted months during which you could be making money from other custom orders

post #3588 of 3613
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorillaz View Post

can you all undestand is just an opinion, and I am going to requote my quote for you

 

so eke2k6 it's impossible to come up with a magic combination to come up with an excellent dap for around $300 without making any profit, I see why you are not your own boss nor a business owner!

 

do you know something about the O2 and its designer?

 

I wonder also who invented the Mont Blanc E12?

 

I see that you know a lot about how to run a business, but do you actually own one and  know to manufacture and sell products? or you are like the fan who watches all the games of his team and then thinks he can be a coach?

 

Don't talk to me about "owning a business." There is a stark difference between owning a business, and running a successful one.

 

I was the president of my undergrad university's student programming association. I had a massive budget every year, and it was my job to allocate those resources to different committees, all of which I supervised. My own pet committee was the International Committee, since I'm a Jamaican studying in the US. I brought talent from all over the world to perform at my university, managed their expenses, as well as actually paying them.

 

I know about nwavguy, and I occasionally refer to his blog when I need resources outside of this community. I really don't see why you brought him up, or the E12.

 

You're the one being unreasonable about the costs of a product. Nwavguy could do what he did because his only role was the actual design of the product. He didn't need to make a profit, nor did he have to deal with distribution, or any of the like. If you really understood "running a business" you'd know that the cost of the product reflects everything the company has to do to get the item in your hands, not just the design.

 

Like kova4 brought up, Apple can do what they do because they already have massive resources, and they basically monopolize entire factories to get their products made. I'm not even upset at products like the DX100 or Tera Player because I know that their products are, despite popular belief on this site, very niche and boutique in nature. They have to be at their price points to justify the effort.

 

Like I said, the only way for you to have any credibility in the matter is for you to come up with your own Sabre 9018 oriented DAP, and bring it to market for the $300 you've proposed. Just know that the PCB alone alone already cost 1/3 of your budget

 

(http://www.ebay.com/itm/ES9018-32bit-Audio-DAC-PCB-kit-/330849729368?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item4d082e3b58)

post #3589 of 3613

These audiophile DAPs (HiFiMaN, AK100, DX100) are clearly in their early days in my opinion. Right now there isn´t much competition yet, but I´m glad it´s getting better. The value aspect just isn´t there compared to other hifi market sectors. Build quality is generally quite poor, products are overpriced even for a market that is used to having very high margins in all products.

 

Typical for an emerging niche market, but things will get better. Portable is clearly the future of hifi, these products simply have a lot more selling potential than heavy traditional components. I´m glad FiiO is joining the competition, they should be able to undercut the current offerings by a lot. This might just be my first FiiO product :)

post #3590 of 3613

Can you all understand that someone else was asking for more features and better SQ for the  little money and I said if you were not asking for those all features maybe he could concentrate on the SQ and thus lowering the price, so it was just an Opinion just like you all have one.

 

did I say hey Fiio make this dap like this and that, did I? no, I said it would be a better idea to make a dap with less unnecessary features but better SQ.

 

Do you all understand!!!! lol

post #3591 of 3613
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorillaz View Post

 

 

did I say hey Fiio make this dap like this and that, did I? no, I said it would be a better idea to make a dap with less unnecessary features but better SQ.

 

 

Bro, what do you call unnecessary? This product is based on broad demand, the very principle that drives businesses.

 

Seriously, you should really look into a tera player.

post #3592 of 3613
Quote:
Originally Posted by eke2k6 View Post

I know about nwavguy, and I occasionally refer to his blog when I need resources outside of this community. I really don't see why you brought him up, or the E12.

 

You're the one being unreasonable about the costs of a product. Nwavguy could do what he did because his only role was the actual design of the product. He didn't need to make a profit, nor did he have to deal with distribution, or any of the like. If you really understood "running a business" you'd know that the cost of the product reflects everything the company has to do to get the item in your hands, not just the design.

 

so JDS Labs and the others companies are not making a profit with the O2 and still selling an amp at an affordable price that rivals in SQ against ones that sell for thousands of $

 

once again

Can you all understand that someone else was asking for more features and better SQ for the little money and I said if you were not asking for those all features maybe he could concentrate on the SQ and thus lowering the price, so it was just an Opinion just like you all have one.

 

did I say hey Fiio make this dap like this and that, did I? no, I said it would be a better idea to make a dap with less unnecessary features but better SQ.

 

Do you all understand!!!! lol

post #3593 of 3613
Quote:
Originally Posted by eke2k6 View Post

 

Bro, what do you call unnecessary? This product is based on broad demand, the very principle that drives businesses.

 

Seriously, you should really look into a tera player.

eke2k6 is just an opinion  about those features and about my idea of less features thus focusing in the SQ, lol.

 

and yes I want something like the Tera Player but we all know he just came up with that price because he just want to! and I respect that, it's his product and I decide with my wallet! and it seems like he makes one by one, does Fiio makes one by one on his own?


Edited by Gorillaz - 2/17/13 at 1:54pm
post #3594 of 3613
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorillaz View Post

so JDS Labs and the others companies are not making a profit with the O2 and still selling an amp at an affordable price that rivals in SQ against ones that sell for thousands of $

 

once again

Can you all understand that someone else was asking for more features and better SQ for the little money and I said if you were not asking for those all features maybe he could concentrate on the SQ and thus lowering the price, so it was just an Opinion just like you all have one.

 

did I say hey Fiio make this dap like this and that, did I? no, I said it would be a better idea to make a dap with less unnecessary features but better SQ.

 

Do you all understand!!!! lol

 

The misconception is that you think replacing a tiny part here and there, and subtracting a little here and there will keep the prices about even.

 

No.

 

I mentioned earlier that once you change the major component, everything else changes, including the very circuitry. The prices on the correct components go up as well.

 

"Th O2 rivals amps costing thousands of dollars"??? Ah, ok. I think that sentence alone cleared up everything for me, as far as your mindset goes. 

 

It's been fun.

 

Eke out beerchug.gif

post #3595 of 3613
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorillaz View Post

Can you all understand that someone else was asking for more features and better SQ for the  little money and I said if you were not asking for those all features maybe he could concentrate on the SQ and thus lowering the price, so it was just an Opinion just like you all have one.

 

did I say hey Fiio make this dap like this and that, did I? no, I said it would be a better idea to make a dap with less unnecessary features but better SQ.

 

Do you all understand!!!! lol

We already told you none of this expensive features have been used and how Fiio operates but you didn't understand and you started going with that

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorillaz View Post

 

lol, I said if you have less unnecessary features on the dap, the manufacturer will have more time to focus on the SQ of the player and also spending less money on the hardware and you are acting like I said I want all those stupid features for $300

 

but according to you it's impossible to have better SQ and less features for around $300 or less!

 

 I am going to requote my quote for you:

 

so eke2k6 it's impossible to come up with a magic combination to come up with an excellent dap for around $300 without making any profit, I see why you are not your own boss nor a business owner!

 

 

I see that you know a lot about how to run a business, but do you actually own one and  know to manufacture and sell products? or you are like the fan who watches all the games of his team and then thinks he can be a coach?

So you're clearly someone who can't give it a rest and still argue about what is possible and what is not for 300 bucks and quoting you vast CEO experience as if you're the Steve Jobs of custom glass and you clearly like to brag about that. eke's right being your own boss and owning a business has nothing to do with anything, so stop using it as an argument. There are literally millions of people who have bosses and don't own businesses and still make way more money than you do. It's all about the profit and that's what gives you bragging rights but in front of friends and family - not in an audiophile forum

post #3596 of 3613
Quote:
Originally Posted by eke2k6 View Post

 

The misconception is that you think replacing a tiny part here and there, and subtracting a little here and there will keep the prices about even.

 

No.

 

I mentioned earlier that once you change the major component, everything else changes, including the very circuitry. The prices on the correct components go up as well.

 

"Th O2 rivals amps costing thousands of dollars"??? Ah, ok. I think that sentence alone cleared up everything for me, as far as your mindset goes. 

 

It's been fun.

 

Eke out beerchug.gif

 well. it's been fun bye!

post #3597 of 3613
Quote:
Originally Posted by kova4a View Post

We already told you none of this expensive features have been used and how Fiio operates but you didn't understand and you started going with that

So you're clearly someone who can't give it a rest and still argue about what is possible and what is not for 300 bucks and quoting you vast CEO experience as if you're the Steve Jobs of custom glass and you clearly like to brag about that. eke's right being your own boss and owning a business has nothing to do with anything, so stop using it as an argument. There are literally millions of people who have bosses and don't own businesses and still make way more money than you do. It's all about the profit and that's what gives you bragging rights but in front of friends and family - not in an audiophile forum

lol, did I say that owning a business means that I make more money that people who doesn't?

 

look you are right it's impossible to make a high end dap for less than $300!

 

see you!

post #3598 of 3613
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorillaz View Post

lol, did I say that owning a business means that I make more money that people who doesn't?

 

look you are right it's impossible to make a high end dap for less than $300!

 

see you!

Could someone please shut up this nutcase?

post #3599 of 3613

Gorillaz, 

 

We all just want to enjoy talking about the X3; we do not need your personal attacks upon others, your pitiful boasting, or your attitude. As others have explained to you (quite well, I might add), Fiio is trying to make a DAP that could be marketed towards the general populace, not just us audiophiles on our high chairs. Getting rid of "unnecessary" features like a large screen and putting in a "better" DAC would stop Fiio from achieving their market objectives, thus ending any hope at all for them to develop an "audiophile" DAP. If you are just posting in some deranged trolling attempt, well, I pity you. If you truly had any positive business experience from your much touted self-employment, then surely you would not be making such irrational demands; for the sake of your employees, I hope that you do not apply these same business "values" to your company. 

 

Regards,

 

Kenneth

post #3600 of 3613

Feiao had said earlier that they only have not tested 128GB SD cards because they did not have any available to test with--anyone know if they have been able to confirm 128GB cards? Of course, 64GB cards still offer plenty of capacity.

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