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The FiiO X3 Thread UPDATE: Project Back On! Read the First Post for Information. - Page 162  

post #2416 of 3613
Quote:
Originally Posted by qusp View Post

wow, can so many people have such bad reading skills? its kinda hard to believe, people skim and completely miss the point. I guess its a generational thing… Fiio and others might notice that over on the portable transport/portable dap thread, almost 50% of ~35 people so far, have voted for transport only.

 

Actually its never been at 50% or in the lead for that matter, and also remember to take one person of the transport and add it to the add to all in one seen as i managed, quite stupidly, to click the wrong box on my own thread, ill correct it when the thread has ran its course but hopefully by then the sample is large enough that it becomes insignificant.  So really its more like 17-23 all in one, around 40%.

post #2417 of 3613
Quote:
Originally Posted by stozzer123 View Post

Actually its never been at 50% or in the lead for that matter, and also remember to take one person of the transport and add it to the add to all in one seen as i managed, quite stupidly, to click the wrong box on my own thread, ill correct it when the thread has ran its course but hopefully by then the sample is large enough that it becomes insignificant.  So really its more like 17-23 all in one, around 40%.


huh? wow. I neither suggested it was 50%, OR that it had ever been in the lead…

 

when I saw it before making that post it was very close to half, not counting your own erroneous vote =P

 

Quote:
wow, can so many people have such bad reading skills? its kinda hard to believe, people skim and completely miss the point. I guess its a generational thing… Fiio and others might notice that over on the portable transport/portable dap thread, almost 50% of ~35 people so far, have voted for transport only.

Edited by qusp - 9/6/12 at 8:06am
post #2418 of 3613

Sometimes i think you read into posts far to much qusp.  Sorry for not putting "almost" infront of my 50%.  The following "and has never been" was not to quote you merley a statment of fact, im sure people were capable of reading the post before mine and seeing your exact wording.  Purley speculative to at the time you posted where the vote stood.  Assuming 35 people we will say closest to 50% while not over would in fact be 17 votes for transport, thats 48.5% take away my vote and place it in the other category the resultnant figure is: 54.3% all in one, 45.7% transport.  Thus giving a difference of 8% wich is far from a "almost 50/50 split".

 

I wouldnt really even point this out bar your comment        " wow, can so many people have such bad reading skills? "

 

 

I had stated earlier in the thread that my vote was misrepresented, so by your standard it should have been factored.     

 

 

Only having a bit of semantics fun here btw ;)         


Edited by stozzer123 - 9/6/12 at 8:39am
post #2419 of 3613

You see, guys, I can admit, there are many hardcore audiophilles among us, who have no problem carrying big, heavy audio-sandwiches and portable dac/amps, but 90% of consumers would rather prefer a (really) good sounding all-in-one DAP (with good battery and smaller size the HIFIMan products). An upgraded Teclast T51 if you want, with buttons, better UI and better battery, will be a 100% success for Fiio. Look at the S:FLo2 or Teclast T51 thread.. There are hundreds of pages / posts about the glorious SQ (and crappy UI). We all know how many issues and downfalls had that product, but still, it was a bomb. I can admit, it would be hard to bit T51/S:Flo2 on pure SQ, but if Fiio can match that "standard" in a smaller/better package with adequate UI and buttons, it's gonna be a huge success for sure.

post #2420 of 3613
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexRoma View Post

You see, guys, I can admit, there are many hardcore audiophilles among us, who have no problem carrying big, heavy audio-sandwiches and portable dac/amps, but 90% of consumers would rather prefer a (really) good sounding all-in-one DAP (with good battery and smaller size the HIFIMan products). An upgraded Teclast T51 if you want, with buttons, better UI and better battery, will be a 100% success for Fiio. Look at the S:FLo2 or Teclast T51 thread.. There are hundreds of pages / posts about the glorious SQ (and crappy UI). We all know how many issues and downfalls had that product, but still, it was a bomb. I can admit, it would be hard to bit T51/S:Flo2 on pure SQ, but if Fiio can match that "standard" in a smaller/better package with adequate UI and buttons, it's gonna be a huge success for sure.

 

I whole heartily agree with you on this. I opted out of the Teclast T51/S:Flo2 exactly because of the sub-par user interface. I opted out of the HiFiMAN DAP's because of the size/look/price. However, I do hope the FiiO X3 will have at least a line-out option. I'm avoiding Cowon because of this reason...though the J3 still looks tempting with the custom themes and loooooong battery life.

 

At the moment I'm running on a Sansa Clip Zip (with Rockbox of course) + FiiO E7 which is okay except for the lack of the line out option on the Clip Zip.


Edited by miceblue - 9/6/12 at 10:33pm
post #2421 of 3613
Quote:
Originally Posted by miceblue View Post

 

I whole heartily agree with you on this. I opted out of the Teclast T51/S:Flo2 exactly because of the sub-par user interface. I opted out of the HiFiMAN DAP's because of the size/look/price. However, I do hope the FiiO X3 will have at least a line-out option. I'm avoiding Cowon because of this reason...though the J3 still looks tempting with the custom themes and loooooong battery life.

 

At the moment I'm running on a Sansa Clip Zip (with Rockbox of course) + FiiO E7 which is okay except for the lack of the line out option on the Clip Zip.

Really enjoying my J3, sound quality is pretty good and the customizable eq is nice, also yes the battery life is insane, i cant actually remember the last time i charged it and i use it everyday

post #2422 of 3613

J3 is pretty darn good and the battery life is no lie. I wish it was a bit warmer sounding, though. I prefer the sound of the ipod 5.5 with Rockbox - I think the J3 is a bit cold in comparison.

post #2423 of 3613
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublea71 View Post

J3 is pretty darn good and the battery life is no lie. I wish it was a bit warmer sounding, though. I prefer the sound of the ipod 5.5 with Rockbox - I think the J3 is a bit cold in comparison.

Try a C2, it's a touch warmer than my S9 if that's anything to go off.
post #2424 of 3613
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexRoma View Post

You see, guys, I can admit, there are many hardcore audiophilles among us, who have no problem carrying big, heavy audio-sandwiches and portable dac/amps, but 90% of consumers would rather prefer a (really) good sounding all-in-one DAP (with good battery and smaller size the HIFIMan products). An upgraded Teclast T51 if you want, with buttons, better UI and better battery, will be a 100% success for Fiio. Look at the S:FLo2 or Teclast T51 thread.. There are hundreds of pages / posts about the glorious SQ (and crappy UI). We all know how many issues and downfalls had that product, but still, it was a bomb. I can admit, it would be hard to bit T51/S:Flo2 on pure SQ, but if Fiio can match that "standard" in a smaller/better package with adequate UI and buttons, it's gonna be a huge success for sure.

 

Alex the Hisound products fit into that criteria. Even smaller than the Sflo2, better battery life and IMO better sound quality. Also from the UI standpoint its basic yet much easier and faster to access than the Sflo2. Almost the same concept of accessing via folder view but with tactile buttons so its much more responsive and easy to use.


Edited by lee730 - 9/7/12 at 7:33pm
post #2425 of 3613
I have hi hopes for the X3. If it ends up being a disappointment I will ether go with a Cowon or cheep out and get a fuze with a LOD.
post #2426 of 3613

Dude, I am sorry to disappoint you, but Hisound products one big lotto. Most have crappy sound (from a crappy manufacturer who has very bad customer policy), very high price policy and very low hardware costs. Guys, that HiSound DAP-s don't even have dedicated DAC inside. The "magic" sound is being processed by a cheap all-in-one codec, with a a built-in 3D effect that can't be turned off at all. Not to mention the smallest screen and poor interface. And there are also issue with the "right" revision unit (that's where the lotto starts). The sound does change very much from revision to revision, same HiSound products sound quite different, and you would not had a chance to send the product back because you've got the "unfortunate" ticket. But hay, that was a bad lotto from the very beginning (bad manufacturer, poor screen, poor warranty, poor hardware, BIG price) Remember Rocco A DAP story ? it was a 150$ retail toy with terrible hissss. In a year, other Chinese OEM manufacturers filled-up the market with Rocco A and B copycats, asking <50$ for it. Do not buy a HiSound product without being 100% satisfied about the sound it does (the unit in your hand, that you wish to buy, not an ebay offering), otherwise, the disappointment is inevitable . 


Edited by AlexRoma - 9/11/12 at 1:20pm
post #2427 of 3613
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexRoma View Post

Dude, I am sorry to disappoint you, but Hisound products one big lotto. Most have crappy sound (from a crappy manufacturer who has very bad customer policy), very high price policy and very low hardware costs. Guys, that HiSound DAP-s don't even have dedicated DAC inside. The "magic" sound is being processed by a cheap all-in-one codec, with a a built-in 3D effect that can't be turned off at all. Not to mention the smallest screen and poor interface. And there are also issue with the "right" revision unit (that's where the lotto starts). The sound does change very much from revision to revision, same HiSound products sound quite different, and you would not had a chance to send the product back because you've got the "unfortunate" ticket. But hay, that was a bad lotto from the very beginning (bad manufacturer, poor screen, poor warranty, poor hardware, BIG price) Remember Rocco A DAP story ? it was a 150$ retail toy with terrible hissss. In a year, other Chinese OEM manufacturers filled-up the market with Rocco A and B copycats, asking <50$ for it. Do not buy a HiSound product without being 100% satisfied about the sound it does (the unit in your hand, that you wish to buy, not an ebay offering), otherwise, the disappointment is inevitable . 



Well, their earbuds, such as Live and Living are pretty good. I'm a bit sceptical about quality control, but overall they sound pretty good.

post #2428 of 3613
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexRoma View Post

Dude, I am sorry to disappoint you, but Hisound products one big lotto. Most have crappy sound (from a crappy manufacturer who has very bad customer policy), very high price policy and very low hardware costs. Guys, that HiSound DAP-s don't even have dedicated DAC inside. The "magic" sound is being processed by a cheap all-in-one codec, with a a built-in 3D effect that can't be turned off at all. Not to mention the smallest screen and poor interface. And there are also issue with the "right" revision unit (that's where the lotto starts). The sound does change very much from revision to revision, same HiSound products sound quite different, and you would not had a chance to send the product back because you've got the "unfortunate" ticket. But hay, that was a bad lotto from the very beginning (bad manufacturer, poor screen, poor warranty, poor hardware, BIG price) Remember Rocco A DAP story ? it was a 150$ retail toy with terrible hissss. In a year, other Chinese OEM manufacturers filled-up the market with Rocco A and B copycats, asking <50$ for it. Do not buy a HiSound product without being 100% satisfied about the sound it does (the unit in your hand, that you wish to buy, not an ebay offering), otherwise, the disappointment is inevitable . 

 

Well I never had issues with them. There new Studio V and Rocoo BA are excellent players and IMO superior to the Sflo2. Side by side I found my Hifiman 601 superior to the Sflo2. Then when I got the Studio V I found that to be a significant upgrade over the Hifiman and then sold the 601. I think you are putting way too much merit regarding specs. What matters in the end is the sound quality.

 

The Sflo2 had somewhat decent parts but the implementation was ****ty and that lowered it potential sound quality. Even ClieOS considers the Rocoo P on par sound quality wise with the Sflo2. The Rocoo P is hisounds lowest offering. The Rocoo BA and Studio V are noticeably better sounding. Just going from memory alone the Studio V is a significant upgrade over the Sflo2 keeping pure sound quality in mind. Plus the build quality and UI are noticeably better. I had 2 Sflo2s come to my house defective in a row. That speaks loads on how crappy Teclasts quality control is. They were obviously discontinued for a reason. Even the later models had different parts in them that affected sound quality and caused distortion.


Edited by lee730 - 9/9/12 at 6:20pm
post #2429 of 3613
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexRoma View Post

Dude, I am sorry to disappoint you, but Hisound products one big lotto. Most have crappy sound (from a crappy manufacturer who has very bad customer policy), very high price policy and very low hardware costs. Guys, that HiSound DAP-s don't even have dedicated DAC inside. The "magic" sound is being processed by a cheap all-in-one codec, with a a built-in 3D effect that can't be turned off at all. Not to mention the smallest screen and poor interface. And there are also issue with the "right" revision unit (that's where the lotto starts). The sound does change very much from revision to revision, same HiSound products sound quite different, and you would not had a chance to send the product back because you've got the "unfortunate" ticket. But hay, that was a bad lotto from the very beginning (bad manufacturer, poor screen, poor warranty, poor hardware, BIG price) Remember Rocco A DAP story ? it was a 150$ retail toy with terrible hissss. In a year, other Chinese OEM manufacturers filled-up the market with Rocco A and B copycats, asking <50$ for it. Do not buy a HiSound product without being 100% satisfied about the sound it does (the unit in your hand, that you wish to buy, not an ebay offering), otherwise, the disappointment is inevitable . 

Not to compare sigs here but the c3's ti 1770 is exactly the same type of system on a chip that HiSound uses and HiSound then adds an amp stage instead of just running the SOC to the headphone jack. This is the current Rocoo BA, -P and Studio V products. It's fine if you don't like them, their older products or the bits they use but I don't think many are aware of the actual topology of these pieces whether they are using a TI, Wolfson or what have you. Sansas, Ipods and Cowons don't use the mentioned ones or additional amp stages. All are SOCs. The X3 will likely be similar in design to the HiSound and how well it does is yet to be determined.

 

 The processed 3d comment is the biggest load of crap I've read in a while. They've been measured with known signals. It would easily be seen in testing. Again, this in no way reflects on the C3 or preference but I smell an agenda.


Edited by goodvibes - 9/9/12 at 7:32pm
post #2430 of 3613
HiSound use Sigmatel SoC, likely either SMTP3770 or 3780 (same SoC has been used in lower end Sony and Fuze+). It doesn't support external DAC. On the other hand, C3 uses (probably) a RockChip SoC, which does support external DAC (as well as having internal DAC section). By SoC alone, RockChip really isn't that much better than Sigmatel. While the PCM1770 (a DAC, not a SoC) might be a better DAC than that inside SMTP series, the problem is. it is still a relatively lower end DAC. Given RockChip has a history of poor support on 24bit stuff, I have a feeling C3 might be limited to 16bit only. Another issue is PCM1770's relatively low output power, meaning ti will have a hard time on demanding load. Since the headphone section has been integrated into the DAC, there isn't much ColorFly can do either. My suspicious is, ColorFly picks this particular DAC to save cost - just a single chip and you save up more than half the DAC and amp section. On the other hand, SMTP does support line-out on the chip, and that's probably what HiSound feeds to the external amp section - and good reason why HiSound DAP generally seems much more powerful than DAP of same size.

Basically, by only looking at the design, both have their own compromises. HiSound opts for an easy-to-use SoC with integrated DAC, then put more effort on the amp section; while ColorFly picks an SoC that does support external DAC, but choose to use an all-in-one DAC+amp chip with relatively low power. These reflect in the design philosophy difference of the two companies: HiSound tends to tailor their DAP for the audiophile crowd while C3, as I know, is closer to a consumer level product in the ColorFly line-up.

As for the 'Rocco A' story - no, the market didn't get filled up by copycat. The internal design of RoCoo-A is very different from other look-alike players such as Gumstick and C30. That's a long story behinds it and I really don't want to go into it right now.

Anyway, rest assure X3 will use neither Sigmatel nor Rockchip as SoC.
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