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Review: Anedio D1 DAC - my new reference DAC - Page 11

post #151 of 951
Right. His impression seems like solid state vs. tube comparison which also my experience with the Woo Audio 6SE. If it's nothing more than that, then I'd think the Anedio powers it at least as well as the Woo Audio 6.
post #152 of 951

While certainly not as quick as I originally thought I'd have ordered this, I finally pulled the trigger today. Now I just have to wait til it gets here! Can't wait!!smile.gif

post #153 of 951
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balmoral View Post

While certainly not as quick as I originally thought I'd have ordered this, I finally pulled the trigger today. Now I just have to wait til it gets here! Can't wait!!smile.gif


Exciting! I hope you enjoy it as much as the rest of us have. If not, there's always the 30-day return policy..... I find it unlikely that you would need it, but it is nice to know it is there.

 

 

On a different topic: James from Anedio advised me that their USB to SPDIF converter is nearing completion. I can't give details yet but it sounds interesting. It is an asynchronous implementation and they are really going all out to maximize performance. He said the method they chose is 2-3 times more complex than it could have been if they used one of the usuals like TAS1020B, Tenor TE7022, or PCM270X. I'm still unsure if they are selling it only to D1 owners or if it will be a seperate product available to everyone. I'll post more details when I can.

 

 

 

post #154 of 951

That is awesome news, I can't wait until James gets this out for me to play with :p

 

So I went to the NYC head-fi meet and I learned a lot about a ton of headphones, I really enjoyed the Woo Audio setup as well as the Redwine audio setup.  After listening to a bunch of headphones I realized I only liked the headphones that were >$900, ouch for my wallet!  I also learned a lot about the headphone amp in the D1.  I would say that it really is not a good headphone amp for any kind of hard to drive headphones.  The amp did well with AudioTechnica ATH-AD2000, all the Grado's, Denon, Sennheiser and AKG's.  It only sounded 'OK' at best to me with HE-5's and couldn't drive HE-6's at all, even at 99 it was at a medium listening level.  For some reason it sounded really good with the Hifiman 500 prototype - but I think that's just because it's an amazing headphone and probably wouldn't get the fullest potential out of it.  It was also just Ok with the beyerdynamics, with certain headphones it would create a bit of sibilance due to lack of proper control over some of the harder to drive headphones.  So, I would def. recommend a external dedicated headphone amplifier if you have a difficult load.

 

I had a great time and I ended up purchasing a pair of Yuin PK-1's for myself for a nice price, as it was IMO the best portable headphone I heard all day - sounded better than some of the more budget oriented full size cans.  Just something for me to have at work :)


Edited by soulrider4ever - 3/20/11 at 6:14am
post #155 of 951
Thread Starter 

PK1s are surprisingly good, aren't they? I think we are conditioned to think "earbud equals crap" because in so many cases that is absolutely the case. But then you stick those nondescript things in your ears and wow! They sound nice!

 

As I read your post about the D1 amp, I realize that my collection of headphones is mostly easy to drive. So I guess I didn't quite cover all the bases in my review like I thought I did. I recently got a custom made ortho (Yamaha YH1 drivers in a Senn HD600 frame, expertly damped by one of our own Orthodynamicists). At 150 ohms, it doesn't draw max power from most amps like the new planar models that are all 50 ohms or less. Yet it is probably has an efficiency in the low 80s like the HE6. So it is terrible to drive. The D1 definitely does not have the juice to drive it very loudly. It does OK with some music but you do have to crank it up all the way to get decent volume. And with some music there just isn't enough power to get loud at all. I switch to the Violectric V200, which does roughly 2 watts per channel into 150 ohms, and there is a lot more headroom and drive. So I agree with your assessment that an external amp is a must for some of these newer and more difficult headphones. 

 

 

post #156 of 951

an amp is not just about the power it delivers in to the load ( iems or headphone ).
Dynamics , soundstage, imaging, instrumentation, tone, etc. it depends on many things.

yeah it may not be as powerful as EF5. does not deliver power in watts. but it does drive some Hps well.

Take THe woo audio WA6 for example . its not suited for high impedence headphones, or powerhundry headphones , but when paired with something like HD800 / LCD2 it really does magic. IT surely does not deive the HE5/He6 any where near their potential. BUT STILL ITS AN EXCILLENT AMP. Just not suited for some HPs.

so you cant say that the amp is not good, just not suited for power hungry HPs/ high impedence ones. 

post #157 of 951

I got my D1 yesterday, but haven't had much more than a couple of hours to listen so far.  Impressions so far are very good.  Compared to the internal dac of the ipod I use, everything seems to open up. Instruments seem to have more realism to them.  The tonal balance seems to be MUCH more accurate to my ears. The amp section seems to be excellent with the current headphones I own; more than enough power to have them to much louder volumes than I'm comfortable with.

post #158 of 951
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balmoral View Post

I got my D1 yesterday, but haven't had much more than a couple of hours to listen so far.  Impressions so far are very good.  Compared to the internal dac of the ipod I use, everything seems to open up. Instruments seem to have more realism to them.  The tonal balance seems to be MUCH more accurate to my ears. The amp section seems to be excellent with the current headphones I own; more than enough power to have them to much louder volumes than I'm comfortable with.



So you are going iPod to Wadia to Anedio to HD650? That's a very nice setup! I'm glad you are enjoying it. The more time you get to spend with it, the more subtle details you'll probably notice and appreciate.

post #159 of 951

Sorry for not posting anything for a while.  I have been very busy since the weather just got warmer.  Anyway here is the video of my setup:

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/QYbE2SCfTYE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

if that didn't work here is the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYbE2SCfTYE

 

Anyway I have enough time listening where I feel strongly about any opinion I make now.  So how is the anedio as a dac.  My previous experience with a good dac was yulong d100.  I hadn't heard any other high end dac yet so my comparision is limited to that dac.  Its definitely a better dac in term of clarity and frequency range.  Soundstage suppose to be better but while I notice it in some song while other is neglible.  If anedio have a better soundstage you would barely notice it.  One thing I notice that I really like is that it really tone down hd 800 treble sharpness.  The yulong didn't fix that problem much when I first got it but I notice this a lot in anedio.  Doesn't it complete fix the problem? no but its easier to live with now.  Both yulong and anedio have a simple and pleasing look so they look nice in most setup you have.

 

So how is the amp section?  Its great compare to yulong amp but only good compare to my woo 6.  If you looking for only volume I would said they are about equal.  You would be satisfy if you plug in either hd 800 or lcd2 in either of them.  Whenever I plug in the amp of anedio it just sound sharp to me.  I know you guys mention the different between tube and ss amp but everytime I try both I just want to go back to my woo 6.  Comparing between anedio and yulong amp there is just no competition.  Yulong make it sound weak and lost some of the soundstage and detail.

 

Overall I feel this is a great dac and very competent amp section.  The dac is the best I have heard(although I hadn't hear much so take it with a grain of salt) and the amp is better than the yulong amp but a tier below the woo 6.  So how do I feel about this purchase?  I am conflicted.  Its a great dac and I feel that around the 900-1k mark just for the dac would be about right.  The reason is I already have the woo 6 before i purchase the anedio so I have really no need for the amp part.  I feel like I spend an extra 300-400 dollars on something I wouldn't utilize.  Its amp both of my favorite headphone good but I just can't stand listening to it when I know the woo deliver the sound I like better.  So beside the listening test and comparision I have not use the anedio amp at all.  The anedio also lose to the yulong with connection( as in 24/96 usb and balanced; even thought high output usb option is coming soon for anedio).  So if you don't have a great amp already I would definitely recommend the anedio.  Ohh one more thing; the yulong usb connection is broken so it bring up some build quality since it came from China.  I have more faith in the anedio build quality and the people that stand behind the anedio more since talking to them about their product.  This is just another quick write up at work.  So if you have any question at all please feel free to ask and I will try to respond.  I know I probably leave a lot of stuff out since I really didn't plan this out.

post #160 of 951



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by project86 View Post





So you are going iPod to Wadia to Anedio to HD650? That's a very nice setup! I'm glad you are enjoying it. The more time you get to spend with it, the more subtle details you'll probably notice and appreciate.



Thanks for the kind words about the setup project86. 

 

You are right!  I am definately starting to pick up things that I didn't ever notice before in music I thought I knew well.  Very pleasing.  I also think that the amp section of the D1 while perhaps not as powerful as the M-Stage is smoother overall. The M-Stage almost seems to have a 'grain' to the sound that the D1 doesn't. I would have never noticed it without a direct comparison. Maybe it's just all the years I abused my ears, but whatever the case I like the sound through the D1 better.

 

post #161 of 951
>He also stated that they looked into options and found a low cost ready made solution (likely the Tenor TE7022 but I didn’t confirm that) that could handle 24-bit/96kHz signals, but did not handle 88.2kHz sample rates. They felt it would not make sense to advertise the product as handling 24/96 over USB when it could not actually handle all the options up to that amount. That’s an interesting take on the subject since many other companies do that very thing, and I understand where he is coming from. Lastly, and possibly most importantly, James expressed a desire for Anedio to develop a high level of in house expertise with respect to USB audio development and implementation.

well, at least it wasn't another TE7022 no 88.2khz product biggrin.gif. WRT 24/96 and inexpensive implementations, yes TE7022 is really really cheap($1), but it's a 1K+ dac, surely they can afford $5-10/unit? How expensive can a TAS1020B be (D100)? (sliiight clarification there - if it's the TAS1020B that overheats and makes D100 lose USB connection until rebooting it - then maybe not)


> That process takes time but is invaluable when planning new products or upgrading existing products. To this end, he advised that Anedio is currently working on an external USB to SPDIF converter that handles all rates up to 24-bit/192kHz.


what seriously? another company that puts out a 1k+ box and them 'makes' you buy a $200-300 usb->spdif? Haven't we had enough of that? (e.g. Audio-gd NFB-10WM and a dodgy adaptive mode USB in it, suggesting I buy their DI with async USB and use coax to connect it, AQVOX and their box, etc...). No, not another box and not another $300... GRRR mad.gif
Why can't audio companies just put a proper async usb supporting 24b/96k without drivers and stop bsing...
Edited by svyr - 3/25/11 at 11:58am
post #162 of 951
Thread Starter 

Svyr: I think you kind of missed the point. Anedio did all they could with the current USB implementation in the D1. It sounds indistinguishable to me (and other owners in this thread) when compared to the other inputs. The only limitation is that hi-res files must be downsampled to 16/48 or 16/44.1. Other than that, who cares what chip is used? They could be using a hockey puck for all I care, as long as it delivers the goods with regards to sound quality.

 

I suspect they already had an estimate for how long it would take to perfect their async USB design, and didn't want to delay their perfectly good DAC for 6-9 months or more while they worked on that. This is a small family company after all with limited time, budget, resources, etc. The add on USB to SPDIF option is probably not even necessary for most people unless you find yourself playing a lot of 24/96 audio. I also suspect that the next version/model/revision will have the newer async USB circuit added into the DAC unit instead rather than as an add-on. 

 

There was a time when the USB input was basically there for convenience; a good way to play background music. Some (but not all) newer DACs have managed to move on from that position and deliver nearly perfect USB performance. But we still have a ways to go before 24/96 high quality USB (done right) is standard on most DACs out there. I understand your position and your frustration with not wanting to spend more or add a box.... but at this point you have limited options if that is your stance.

post #163 of 951
>I also suspect that the next version/model/revision will have the newer async USB circuit added into the DAC unit instead rather than as an add-on.

I see, well, that'd be nice. As for them making a USB-> coax or toslink box, what's the point? There are already dozens of similar products on the market even with async transfer mode supported.


>I understand your position and your frustration with not wanting to spend more or add a box.... but at this point you have limited options if that is your stance.

my room's already full of amp dac and transport boxes biggrin.gif...I already have 2 tables filled with gear I'd rather not have...Unfortunately perfect DAC/AMP boxes just aren't there and probably won't be for marketing reasons (most companies seem to like to sell 2-3-4 boxes, with the DAC/AMP one being positioned as a value for money compromise) and justified by letting people match their own amp, DAC, transport...


>you find yourself playing a lot of 24/96 audio.

Around 100 LP 96k24b rips (some of these significantly better quality than existing remastered CD releases for classical music (people find a mint LP at a sale on in their attic)) and 10-15 HD rec ones. Notably, I can't tell a difference between them downsampled to 16/44.1 for well mastered ones at all, and A/B only for ones some others (mostly seems to be some badly recorded). Ironically, most of the HD rec ones neither present not much of an artistic interest, nor are that particularly well recorded biggrin.gif (just 96k/24b masters from 10ish years ago from a badly miked place with dodgy equipment)
Edited by svyr - 3/26/11 at 3:33pm
post #164 of 951
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by svyr View Post



I see, well, that'd be nice. As for them making a USB-> coax or toslink box, what's the point? There are already dozens of similar products on the market even with async transfer mode supported.



my room's already full of amp dac and transport boxes biggrin.gif...I already have 2 tables filled with gear I'd rather not have...Unfortunately perfect DAC/AMP boxes just aren't there and probably won't be for marketing reasons (most companies seem to like to sell 2-3-4 boxes, with the DAC/AMP one being positioned as a value for money compromise) and justified by letting people match their own amp, DAC, transport...


Around 100 LP 96k24b rips (some of these significantly better quality than existing remastered CD releases for classical music (people find a mint LP at a sale on in their attic)) and 10-15 HD rec ones. Notably, I can't tell a difference between them downsampled to 16/44.1 for well mastered ones at all, and A/B only for ones some others (mostly seems to be some badly recorded). Ironically, most of the HD rec ones neither present not much of an artistic interest, nor are that particularly well recorded biggrin.gif (just 96k/24b masters from 10ish years ago from a badly miked place with dodgy equipment)


I think the point of the USB to SPDIF device is 1) to give them the chance to explore what works and what doesn't with regards to hi-res USB audio, 2) to provide ongoing support to current D1 DAC owners, since they will probably make the USB to SPDIF box match the DAC in appearance, and also because they will sell it at a very low price to current owners. I don't even know if they will sell it separately or just to D1 owners only. I agree that the market is already saturated but that's also the case with everything from DACs, amps, CD players, etc. 

 

For a 1 box solution, depending on your headphones, the Anedio D1 might actually be just that. It's just not powerful enough for Orthos, and of course it doesn't have colorations which might be desirable. 

 

I've never quite understood 24/96 LP rips. Even if they are from a pristine vinyl source that was well mastered, doesn't having a consumer grade ADC in the loop kind of defeat the purpose? And that's not even considering the inherent limitations of the medium such as pops/clicks/lower SNR/etc. I know some of that can be fixed, but there again you are adding more processing. Maybe I need to listen to some and see what I think.

 

post #165 of 951
>to provide ongoing support to current D1 DAC owners, since they will probably make the USB to SPDIF box match the DAC in appearance, and also because they will sell it at a very low price to current owners. I don't even know if they will sell it separately or just to D1 owners only

uuum not really, they can just have the current owners send the units in for a board upgrade.


>It's just not powerful enough for Orthos, and of course it doesn't have colorations which might be desirable.

fair enough.


>I've never quite understood 24/96 LP rips. Even if they are from a pristine vinyl source that was well mastered, doesn't having a consumer grade ADC in the loop kind of defeat the purpose? And that's not even considering the inherent limitations of the medium such as pops/clicks/lower SNR/etc. I know some of that can be fixed, but there again you are adding more processing. Maybe I need to listen to some and see what I think.

the point is they do the analog rip through a quality setup to 192/24b or 96/24 and then do manual click removal and other things. (generally people who release them on the sites I get them from don't put them through other filters unless they're exceedingly rare and that's the only medium and the filter does make it much more tolerable). After they finish doing that they should probably downsample and release as 44.1/16.
As for why rip the vynil in the first place. Some LPs have not been released as digital recordings at all e.g. Campoli's Saint-saens concerto and many others. Other times, they may have simultaneously recorded a digital rip to a bad tape setup and vynil, and the recording co releases the bad digital copy remaster, but then some one finds the LP in the attic and it turns out that the sound quality on it is better. (generally happens for the times when digital recording was in its infancy or digital medium was damaged )
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