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iBasso PB-2 Pelican fully balanced portable, DB-2 Dac . . HiFlight recommended op amps page 16. . - Page 9

post #121 of 1201
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by qusp View Post

also guys, please do not continue the cliches of copper = warm bassy and silver interconnects = cool detailed sound in here, I have a hard enough job trying to explain that just isnt true as it is. system synergy is much more important. you simply cannot make generalized statements like that IMO

 

I agree, you can't put the sound signature to either one. I find that gauge and combination of the strands and number has more to do with the final sound and as qusp states, synergy is a Huge one. 
 

post #122 of 1201
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfen68 View Post


Quote:

Originally Posted by GeorgeGoodman  


This is what I meant. Sorry. Do you still feel this way, and do you plan on getting the PB2? 



I have since sold the PB1 as I have been quite "smitten" with the SR71b and DB1 combination.  I have no plans to get a PB2.


That is cool. I have heard the SR71B with Ray's Meridian CD player and the HE-6, and it is really something special. Getting the PB2 after that is pretty much superfluous, unless you needed the extra power or wanted to roll opamps.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by qusp View Post

also guys, please do not continue the cliches of copper = warm bassy and silver interconnects = cool detailed sound in here, I have a hard enough job trying to explain that just isnt true as it is. system synergy is much more important. you simply cannot make generalized statements like that IMO

I am sure synergy is the most important thing. I just pulled up what a few members noticed about this particular amp/DAC and two particular ICs.

 

I searched for what Warp08 said, but couldn't find it. He said basically the same thing, that the copper gave a more analog bass reproduction and the silver was a little more exacting. I don;t think he really said one was necessarily better than the other.
 

post #123 of 1201


Quote:

Originally Posted by qusp View Post

also guys, please do not continue the cliches of copper = warm bassy and silver interconnects = cool detailed sound in here, I have a hard enough job trying to explain that just isnt true as it is. system synergy is much more important. you simply cannot make generalized statements like that IMO

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jalo View Post

This is a question for the cable believer.  Do you think a silver cable like the TWag or silver dragon will match better with the PB1/PB2 amps or do you like the UPOCC type copper better.  I am ordering the PB2 and since I have not heard either the PB1/PB2, I do not have a feel of the over all sound signature.  Does the PB2 need help in the treble or in the bass department? Is it cold, or warm, or colored? Is it transparent and clear?

 

Also, for connection between DB1 and PB2, do you prefer silver or copper?  Please help.Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamato8 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by qusp View Post

also guys, please do not continue the cliches of copper = warm bassy and silver interconnects = cool detailed sound in here, I have a hard enough job trying to explain that just isnt true as it is. system synergy is much more important. you simply cannot make generalized statements like that IMO

 

I agree, you can't put the sound signature to either one. I find that gauge and combination of the strands and number has more to do with the final sound and as qusp states, synergy is a Huge one.  and as qusp states, synergy is a Huge one. 


 


Qusp, since I am the one that brought this issue up with regard to cable matching of the PB2, and I understand that you have a difficult time in explaining that it is "just isn't true", but could you at least try to explain why it "just isn't true" for my benefit?  When you say it isn't true, do you mean:

 

1.   Do you mean that this statement just isn't true period.  If so, what part of this statement is not true, (for instance, you may say cable doesn't make any difference and that is fine with me), or

2.   Do you mean that this statement isn't true AS IT IS, but it could be true under certain conditions, if so, under what condition could it be true? or

3.   Do you mean that this statement is too generalized and cannot be applied to all cases, if so, under what specific condition can you make this statement?

 

You also stated that system synergy is much more important, as System Synergy is also a generalized term for me, could you elaborate what you mean? By system synergy, do you include cable as a factor that could affect system synergy? If so, what about cable that you consider as a factor that may affect system synergy, is it the type (silver vs copper vs sxc), the format (balance vs SE), the construction (like Jamato says above--the gauge and the combination of the strands and number, single vs multi core), or others like the shielding, braiding, numbers of solder joints, type of solders, connector, or others?  If you don't think cable is not a factor in system synergy at all, then could you list the factors that you consider as important starting with A.  For instance, tube vs SS, power considerations like impedance, voltage, current etc, designs (Class A, AB, B, Cmoy, Opamp, push-pull, balance vs SE etc).  I don't mean it as a challenge to your statement, I just want more info, that's all.

 

Furthermore, I like to state that if you do not believe that cable can make a difference in sound.  That is totally fine with me.  We have enough discussion in these forums on this subject matter and I don't want to start any discussion at all.  We just have to agree to disagree.  I specifically started my post saying "This is a question for the cable believer".  So we don't need to go there.  

 

Interestingly enough, if what Jamato said above is true and I am not saying it isn't, I think there are less people that believe in that statement than the one about silver vs copper.

 

But if you say it is the other factors in the system synergy that are more important, than is has nothing to do the the type of cable use.  You can do both, it doesn't invalidate that statement.  I am very curious to hear your thoughts on the above.

 

 

 

post #124 of 1201
Thread Starter 

The discussion above would be better offline or in the cable section since this is about the PB2. 

 

I received my PB2. Now for the listening. I also received my HE-6 so let the listening begin, after I terminate the HE-6 to a different balanced connector. 

post #125 of 1201

Jam, I am just asking Qusp for information which I believe may interest other readers.  There is no argument here.  I already said we don't need to have a cable argument.  Qusp seems to have information that may be able to benefit a few of us here.  He can believe anyway he likes and that will be fine with me.  Besides, I like to know more about system synergy and its impact on the PB2.

post #126 of 1201
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jalo View Post

Jam, I am just asking Qusp for information which I believe may interest other readers.  There is no argument here.  I already said we don't need to have a cable argument.  Qusp seems to have information that may be able to benefit a few of us here.  He can believe anyway he likes and that will be fine with me.  Besides, I like to know more about system synergy and its impact on the PB2.

I am glad you asked him and not me. I got tangled up trying to read it. lol 

 

The PB2 with extra set of buffers and biased to wide band is great sounding. I need time to compare and digest but the bass is well textured and well done. I am surprised that it does so well with the HE-6. Now to try it with the LCD-2. And then on to op amp rolling. Some nice AD744 in OB and CA. 

post #127 of 1201
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamato8 View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jalo View Post

Jam, I am just asking Qusp for information which I believe may interest other readers.  There is no argument here.  I already said we don't need to have a cable argument.  Qusp seems to have information that may be able to benefit a few of us here.  He can believe anyway he likes and that will be fine with me.  Besides, I like to know more about system synergy and its impact on the PB2.

I am glad you asked him and not me. I got tangled up trying to read it. lol 

 

The PB2 with extra set of buffers and biased to wide band is great sounding. I need time to compare and digest but the bass is well textured and well done. I am surprised that it does so well with the HE-6. Now to try it with the LCD-2. And then on to op amp rolling. Some nice AD744 in OB and CA. 


Jam, don't worry, I am a peaceful person like you and have zero interest in arguing with anyone here.  I just want info.  Thank for your input on the PB2.  I know it is early on, but how do you compare the PB2 to the SR71B?  I have the JH13 and the LCD2 also.  I am particularly impressed with the bass coming out of boomslang and SR71b into the LCD2.  The LCD2 makes some A-Kicking bass. With all the favorable impression on the bass aspect of the PB2, I am just very curious how the PB2 would sound out of the LCD2 with it immense power.  You have mentioned, if I remember correctly, that the PB2 is also very clean or quiet?  This is something very important to me as portable amp is very prone to noise or high noise floor.

 

PS  What do you mean by biased to wide band?

post #128 of 1201
Thread Starter 

On the buffer 634 you use a 100 or 200 ohm resistor from pin 1 to pin 4. This puts the buffer into wide bandwidth (WB), which gives potentially a little better sound. I have found this to be the case in listening. The kit comes with 4 buf634 in WB so you can stack them on the buf 634 already in the sockets for 2 buffers per socket or 8 total and they will all be in the WB mode!

 

I just got the PB2 so have no comment on hiss etc. but I haven't read of anyone experiencing it but that also depends upon the op amp being used. I have to say that right now, with the PB2 an HE-6 new, something has gone raspy. Gah. . . . not pleasant so one of the two is settling in and I don't feel like doing the AB thing of what it is so I will let both just run for a while. I can listen to the fi.Q and LCD-2, and that is an excellent combination. 

post #129 of 1201

Thanks, I will have to bother you or Ron later for some coaching on Opamp rolling.

post #130 of 1201
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulybatz View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by trentino View Post

Does the stock PB2 have the same sound sig as PB1?



Ill be doing some A/B comparisons over the weekend.

This amp sounds fantastic right out of the box...and there is nothing like a balanced amp setup, in addition the hirose is a great connector too!


Pauly, any new impressions on the PB2?  Thanks

post #131 of 1201

Funny you ask...I am loving this amp, since getting it I have not used the PB-1, I am just intrigued by this amp...I feel IMHO that balanced is just the way to fly, especially with the HD650s....and likely any phones, this is my favorite setup, Im waiting to roll, rather than reinvent the wheel HiFlight impressed the hell out of me with his kit for the D4, which turned that little dude into a monster...I will do some A/Bing soon, but I absolutely love the synergy of this amp with the HD650...at this point I cannot tell which I like better, it is similar, I know to the PB1 but there is something about this one but I will wait a bit to do the comparison...in addition, what is nice is to have the option to change the signature as well...(and the cable question, I LOVE my silver ICs...simple 24ga dead soft silver in teflon tube, just fantastically pure sound...and you never have to worry about corrosion with silver as the corrosion with silver is just as conductive, unlike copper's tarnish that hinders transmission....but NO MORE ABOUT CABLES just the PB2 follks)

post #132 of 1201

Well, I'll be waiting for your thoughts.  With regard to balance setup, ever since the Protector and now the SR71B, I am also sold on the balance setup.  I love the additional power, better sound stage, the openess and additional air with the balance.  I know a lot of people hate the additional cost and the inconvenience of recabling, but I thought it is well worth it.  By the way, which silver IC did you get?

post #133 of 1201



I had a local DIY guy make it for me...the actual wire is inexpensive, its all about finding someone to do the work for you....also with the relative price of these Ibasso amps, recabling is FREE!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jalo View Post

Well, I'll be waiting for your thoughts.  With regard to balance setup, ever since the Protector and now the SR71B, I am also sold on the balance setup.  I love the additional power, better sound stage, the openess and additional air with the balance.  I know a lot of people hate the additional cost and the inconvenience of recabling, but I thought it is well worth it.  By the way, which silver IC did you get?

post #134 of 1201

wow Jalo, haha I should have known, ok guys, this is waaay OT, so its going in a box, read it of you will, but please do not continue it in here, so Jalo, feel free to PM me if you want to discuss it further
 

 

 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jalo View Post

 

Qusp, since I am the one that brought this issue up with regard to cable matching of the PB2, and I understand that you have a difficult time in explaining that it is "just isn't true", but could you at least try to explain why it "just isn't true" for my benefit?  When you say it isn't true, do you mean:

 

1.   Do you mean that this statement just isn't true period.  If so, what part of this statement is not true, (for instance, you may say cable doesn't make any difference and that is fine with me), or

 

your joking right? you have had a look at my moniker and profession havent you?

 

2.   Do you mean that this statement isn't true AS IT IS, but it could be true under certain conditions, if so, under what condition could it be true? or

 

IMO its a statement made without enough experience to know better, nothing more than a cliche

 

3.   Do you mean that this statement is too generalized and cannot be applied to all cases, if so, under what specific condition can you make this statement?

 

when all variables are the same, or as close as possible, but even then its subjective and even then with a statement that broad, something will still come along, break the mold and surprise you. there is no formula, yes IMO certain metals and topologies will contribute towards an overall effect in a particular direction in sound signature,....most of the time

 

You also stated that system synergy is much more important, as System Synergy is also a generalized term for me, could you elaborate what you mean? By system synergy, do you include cable as a factor that could affect system synergy? If so, what about cable that you consider as a factor that may affect system synergy, is it the type (silver vs copper vs sxc), the format (balance vs SE), the construction (like Jamato says above--the gauge and the combination of the strands and number, single vs multi core), or others like the shielding, braiding, numbers of solder joints, type of solders, connector, or others?  If you don't think cable is not a factor in system synergy at all, then could you list the factors that you consider as important starting with A.  For instance, tube vs SS, power considerations like impedance, voltage, current etc, designs (Class A, AB, B, Cmoy, Opamp, push-pull, balance vs SE etc).  I don't mean it as a challenge to your statement, I just want more info, that's all.

 

how is system synergy a generalized term? wide ranging, but not generalized in the slightest, it speaks of something very specific. It speaks of a whole system approach, all the parts contribute and no one variable can dominate enough by itself to make such an extreme difference in sound signature and change an otherwise warm system cold, or vice versa. some elements like the headphones themselves have a profound effect, but do not hold all the power either IMO

 

Furthermore, I like to state that if you do not believe that cable can make a difference in sound.  That is totally fine with me.  We have enough discussion in these forums on this subject matter and I don't want to start any discussion at all.  We just have to agree to disagree.  I specifically started my post saying "This is a question for the cable believer".  So we don't need to go there.  

 

I would have thought you have been around here long enough to have a pretty good idea I believe cables have an influence on sound......

 

Interestingly enough, if what Jamato said above is true and I am not saying it isn't, I think there are less people that believe in that statement than the one about silver vs copper.

 

yes, because it is a mantra that is repeated Ad nauseam, often by people who have not experimented with cables and audio in general enough to know better. Sometimes simply because they cannot find their own way of describing things, so therefor parrot what has been written before. sometimes it is even spread/repeated by people who have not even heard a portable amp with their ipod yet and have simply read other people make this statement, which itself may or may not have been made from personal experience. 

 

everyone has to start somewhere, but the amount of time I spend explaining the above to customers because they have read a statement such as yours is not small and I do wish people would stop making reductionist statements.

 

whether my view is, or isnt considered the norm matters nothing to me

 

 

But if you say it is the other factors in the system synergy that are more important, than is has nothing to do the the type of cable use.  You can do both, it doesn't invalidate that statement.  I am very curious to hear your thoughts on the above.

 

yes i'm afraid it does invalidate it as a general matter of fact statement, framed as such it is incorrect, because it takes far too narrow a view. sometimes its right and many times its wrong, just as a stopped clock tells the right time twice a day. as an opinion formed from personal experience you are of course welcome to it 

 

my intent is not to belittle, please do not take it as such, but the sooner you start exploring on your own terms the better. Our little niche is set up quite well for exploration, items of quality generally have pretty good resale value here, so I suggest living a little, take a few risks to find out what suits you, rather than trying to find out the answers by research alone

 

 

 


 

 

the search for definitive answers on the above will send you insane and cost mega $$$$. I speak of synergy amongst many different variables, more wide ranging than just a single cable metallurgy, cable topology, cable dielectric, headphone amp, tubes, chips or solid-state, or a single headphone apply. Matters of music choice, personal taste and personal subjective definitions of terms come in and mess all of that neatness up. We can only make educated guesses based on past personal experience, you just cannot make blanket statements one way or the other, because the chances of all the variables being the same for an apples to apples comparison are almost nil and if taste comes into it; impossible.

post #135 of 1201

Very informative, Qusp.^ I may make a silver interconnect for my balanced DAC and a PB2 if I get one, as well as a silver headphone cable. But before I do that, I am going to get good at doing those in copper. I will report back here with what I hear. I just found this company White Zombie Audio, and e-mailed them to ask about getting some cable for some headphones or interconnects. He said he couldn't really help me because they are an interconnect company, and I should buy one of their cables and put that on a headphone. He said that at their prices, it is not a bad idea, and I am inclined to agree. He said he spent a lot of time experimenting to get a sound he felt is the closest to hardwiring the components together, and that I should experiment and find what sounds the best.

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