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post #4786 of 5326
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooses9 View Post

it is a weird iem in that respect. they ARENT hard to drive. there not a sensitive as the se535, but they arent a hard to drive IEM, but they do seem to long for a amplifier, even if you can use them straight out of a phone or dap, they just seem to want a amplifier.....i dont ask questions i just give it what it wants lol.

the w4r are excellent with every amp i have tried, the different amps obviously give different sound signatures but overall they respond very well too amplification.
Give me a good low to moderate priced amp recommendation . I am not sure I need it but I am curious.
post #4787 of 5326
Check out the leckertons.
post #4788 of 5326
Quote:
Originally Posted by subguy812 View Post

Give me a good low to moderate priced amp recommendation . I am not sure I need it but I am curious.

What do you consider low to moderate?

The jds labs c5 is a good amp moderately price around.180usd

The e12 fiio is another good amp priced around the same as the c5

The rsa amps are good too shadow,protector both are real good.

those are just a few there arr alot of amps in ths 100-200 dollar range
post #4789 of 5326
Quote:
Originally Posted by TK277 View Post


Any type of silver cable is going to add to the treble.

This is common headfi mythology but it isn't true. I have perceived differences between cables (which I struggle to try and explain), but whatever those differences actually are, they do not amount to measurable differences in FR (irrespective of the material used). This is actually acknowledged by reputable cable makers who agree that the improvements many perceive are not detected by standard measurement techniques. rmaa and diffmaker, for example, shed no light on why certain cables and cable geometries seem to sound better than others - at least to many of us. Perhaps some super subtle impact on phase and reduction in cross-talk?

Regardless, that silver has higher conductivity than copper bears no relation to common but erroneous claims that copper is warmer and silver more transparent or extended.
post #4790 of 5326
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeptic View Post

This is common headfi mythology but it isn't true. I have perceived differences between cables (which I struggle to try and explain), but whatever those differences actually are, they do not amount to measurable differences in FR (irrespective of the material used). This is actually acknowledged by reputable cable makers who agree that the improvements many perceive are not detected by standard measurement techniques. rmaa and diffmaker, for example, shed no light on why certain cables and cable geometries seem to sound better than others - at least to many of us. Perhaps some super subtle impact on phase and reduction in cross-talk?

Regardless, that silver has higher conductivity than copper bears no relation to common but erroneous claims that copper is warmer and silver more transparent or extended.

Cool, many thanks man for the explanation, so I guess all of those cable comments are just subjective to each people ears, some people can hear it and some people don't.
post #4791 of 5326
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnSantana View Post


Cool, many thanks man for the explanation, so I guess all of those cable comments are just subjective to each people ears, some people can hear it and some people don't.

 

this whole hobby is subjective.

 

Cables are widely debated and subjective some people dont believe cables make ANY differences at all, some people do think they make a difference.

 

i think that maybe you might not hear the difference between a silver plated copper vs a copper cable. the silver differences might be minute.

 

however personally i find pure silver and pure silver and gold to be pretty definitive in sound differences. giving you a brighter presentation, along with some other advantages over pure copper.

 

i have A and B'd alot of pure occ copper,silver and silver and gold, and i can always definitively tell the differences pure silver makes

 

this is in my opinion esp true when comparing the stock westone cable to a pure silver cable, the differences in the frequencies jumps out at you with pure silver.

 

people can say whatever they want, hell i am saying whatever i want, but i have owned ALOT of cables, and compared and contrasted and like i am pretty much to me its a definitive answer pure silver makes a difference.

 

now with the silver plated copper cable, unless you heard a pure silver cable you might not make out the differences the silver makes, it might be very slight for untrained ears, it might be more noticeable with more trained ears esp if you have heard alot of cables, this might give you the benifit of having a more trained ear to what a particular material in the cable does.

post #4792 of 5326

I do like the ergonomics of the stock epic cable. Very soft, no microphonics at all. I was actually surprised by the quality. Best stock cable I've ever had with an IEM. As for the sound being improved with a better cable, I believe it. Cables make a difference for me when it comes to headphones, so I'm sure it does for IEMs too. However I won't be investing money into cables for the 4R. It's not my main reference rig, just my portable toy that I can enjoy.

post #4793 of 5326

I bought a pair of 4r's for the discounted price. Replacing old Shure e-4c's. Sounding great so far out of an Audio GD 15.32.  The stock cord seems very short vrs my old shure cord. Could anyone recommend a neutral extension cord of 2 or 3 ft? Thanks.

post #4794 of 5326
Just get a shure extension audio cable they sell em on Amazon
post #4795 of 5326

any thoughts about pairing westone 4 with little dot mk i+ headphone amp ...? 

 

http://www.littledot.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=821&sid=7da21fb7257ce5ff1f3a23510e4ccd66

post #4796 of 5326
I I just received my W4R and now I'm looking for a good dac/amp for use with my Note 2 and my Rock Boxed Clip Zip. I have a D Zero that I'm not impressed with. I was looking at the Leckerton mkII or something better. Something that will drive my HD580's as well. Tuners are so many out there, I get lost reading reviews. Around 400 would bemy range possibly higher if there is a major difference. Any help would be great.
post #4797 of 5326
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooses9 View Post

this whole hobby is subjective.

Cables are widely debated and subjective some people dont believe cables make ANY differences at all, some people do think they make a difference.

i think that maybe you might not hear the difference between a silver plated copper vs a copper cable. the silver differences might be minute.

however personally i find pure silver and pure silver and gold to be pretty definitive in sound differences. giving you a brighter presentation, along with some other advantages over pure copper.

i have A and B'd alot of pure occ copper,silver and silver and gold, and i can always definitively tell the differences pure silver makes

this is in my opinion esp true when comparing the stock westone cable to a pure silver cable, the differences in the frequencies jumps out at you with pure silver.

people can say whatever they want, hell i am saying whatever i want, but i have owned ALOT of cables, and compared and contrasted and like i am pretty much to me its a definitive answer pure silver makes a difference.

now with the silver plated copper cable, unless you heard a pure silver cable you might not make out the differences the silver makes, it might be very slight for untrained ears, it might be more noticeable with more trained ears esp if you have heard alot of cables, this might give you the benifit of having a more trained ear to what a particular material in the cable does.

Cool, thanks man, so in this case I wonder what sort of Silver cable that you have used in the past for the IEMs ?

I guess the price is also about 50% of the W4R price itself.
post #4798 of 5326
The problem with Mooses' argument is that what he is describing would be objectively measurable, not merely the subject matter of subjective impressions, if it were true. If silver really brought out trebles, that would show up consistently on FR measurements, just like if copper truly subdued them or increased bass. None of this shows up.

Diffmaker is freeware. Anyone with a modicum of diy xp could demonstrate the truth of the copper=warm/silver=treble transparency myth, if only it were true. You wouldn't even need a mic. Just lines with identical connectors running from source to sound card input. There are many aftermarket audiophile cable companies, making lots and lots of money in this subindustry, yet not a one has managed to obtain any data to support the common rule of thumb. So we must reject it. The perceived differences have to be explained by something more sophisticated, above and beyond FR, that we hear but don't yet know how to measure (assuming, of course, that we all aren't just deluding ourselves).

In any event, still really enjoying my w4s on a daily basis. The stock cable is actually quite good. I don't love the aesthetics, but it is durable, flexible and has no microphonics.
Edited by skeptic - 10/8/13 at 1:12am
post #4799 of 5326
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnSantana View Post


Cool, thanks man, so in this case I wonder what sort of Silver cable that you have used in the past for the IEMs ?

I guess the price is also about 50% of the W4R price itself.

yeah a pure silver cable say from headphonelounge is going to run around 220.00, the whiplash v2/v3 can run from 285-475.00

 

Pure Silver Cables i have used:

 

Toxic Silver poison 7n up-occ

Whiplash Twag v2 Eclipse Pure silver

Whiplash  SCSCag 7n-UPOCC Hook Pure Silver

Tralucent 6N pure silver

Neotech 5n pure silver

''dream'' 5n pure silver

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by skeptic View Post

The problem with Mooses' argument is that what he is describing would be objectively measurable, not merely the subject matter of subjective impressions, if it were true. If silver really brought out trebles, that would show up consistently on FR measurements, just like if copper truly subdued them or increased bass. None of this shows up.

Diffmaker is freeware. Anyone with a modicum of diy xp could demonstrate the truth of the copper=warm/silver=treble transparency myth, if only it were true. You wouldn't even need a mic. Just lines with identical connectors running from source to sound card input. There are many aftermarket audiophile cable companies, making lots and lots of money in this subindustry, yet not a one has managed to obtain any data to support the common rule of thumb. So we must reject it. The perceived differences have to be explained by something more sophisticated, above and beyond FR, that we hear but don't yet know how to measure (assuming, of course, that we all aren't just deluding ourselves).

In any event, still really enjoying my w4s on a daily basis. The stock cable is actually quite good. I don't love the aesthetics, but it is durable, flexible and has no microphonics.

 

But thats the thing, it is Subjective matter, sound itsself is subjective, what one person hears might not be what another hears. for instance, the fact that there are a ton of post about people giving their subjective opinions on how other iem's sound. i dont know why people put cables into the matter then throw them out becuase its ''subjective reasoning''....someone giving a impression of how a particular iem sound is just subjective impressions... for instance one person might be like OMG best iem even, then someone uses that basis that ''subjective impression'' and goes out and buys the iem then hates it. its ALL subjective.

 

even if you have data on a iem, showing it has excellent frequency curves what does that mean, that data isnt applied inside your head to buffer your subjective impression of a iem, take for instance the almost perfect square wave frequency curve of the se535, yet people can still find fault with it, just becuase the square wave is excellent. most people cant even read data sheets, and its not what people go by, they go by other peoples subjective reasoning, subjective impressions.

 

cables are no different, even if you had data that showed differences in frequencies per material of cable, people would still use subjective reasoning and subjective impressions of other peoples expierences to base weather or not to buy the cable....even though data is important and it would be cool to see a frequency spike is certain ranges of the frequency spectrum based on a cable material, in the end, data isnt what is going to be used to be a driving force for the puchases of a certain cable.

 

someone like me is going to be that driving force, someone who has had expierences with alot of different cables, and interconnects, alot of different dacs amps and daps, dont get me wrong, im not a professional, i just have expierence with cables and maybe not even as much as the next guy. but my subjective reasoning and subjective impressions can and have been a driving force for some people to purchase cables im not with any particular MFG as you can see i buy from alot of the boutique cable makers, im not paid or endorsed by anyone. but just giving my opinion.

 

im not right or wrong. im entitled to my own impressions of audio equipment i currently use, have used.

post #4800 of 5326
I agree with virtually everything you said above and do value subjective impressions. I share my own with some frequency. That's much of what this site is all about.

Absolute statements of cause and effect that do not square with what is actually measurable are highly problematic though - that's what I was attempting to address in the post I originally quoted. New users come here looking for information and assurances, and I believe headfi veterans have an obligation to be careful not to conflate personal impressions with scientific truth. I think the heart of the problem is that the copper vs silver cable discussion has been grossly oversimplified. I'll leave it at that.
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