MKIII + HD650 = No Improvement? - Page 4

Ah okay, good to know.  Linux was not listed as supported on the website...
 

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Originally Posted by Zuglufttier 

The Dr. DAC prime worked fine with FreeBSD and Linux with me, there are no special drivers needed just the generic driver for usb audio.

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Originally Posted by Katun 

Well, I did a little experiment last night.

 

First, I plugged my HD650 directly into my P1260 CD player and listened to a specific song or segment. After I had a good idea of what sound it presented, I then plugged the HD650 into my Little Dot MKIII and listened to the exact same song or segment. The problem is, they sound identical. I cannot detect any sort of improvement or enhancement whatsoever.

 

Am I doing something wrong? Or is an amp just not as big of an improvement as everyone thinks?

 

(Little Dot MKIII had 70 hrs burn in so far with Slyvania 6AK5 tubes)

So what does that tell you about Little Dot?

You know what to do.

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Originally Posted by CountChoculaBot 

Probably that.  I experienced the same thing when I tried LDMKIII + HD650.  The only amps I really liked were the ones who made their presence obvious by coloring the sound.  Otherwise it can be pretty hard to tell.  LDMKIII I don't think really colors the sound much at all so it's really just more power that it's providing.  There's an interesting AMP COMPARISONS A/B thread here where a guy compares the Beta22 (held to be the best SS amp ever) and CKIII/M^3 (two solid budget amps) on a LCD2 and he didn't report hearing much difference between them; probably the same thing you're experiencing here.
 

Reminds me of a line from Oceans 11, Where Danny Ocean said he could find out who robbed the casino. When asked how he could do that, he said, "I know a guy who knows a guy."

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Originally Posted by MrGreen 

The LDMkIII isn't that great an amp IMO.

Agreed.

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Originally Posted by logwed 

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Originally Posted by pp312 

You've just come to the same conclusion I came to years ago: that amps make very little difference. The fact is, amps are supposed to merely amplify, and unless they're adding gross colouration, either through bad design or running out of steam, you shouldn't hear them at all. There may be slight--read slight--differences in terms of one being a little warmer or brighter than another, and this can be useful for matching, but you will never turn a veiled headphone into an incisive one, or tone down "hot" treble, unless the amp has tone controls--and that's another story.

 

Incidentally, there have been plenty of comments here over the years (never gathered together unfortunately) from people--even people with $500+ amps--saying they wish they'd never invested so much in their amps as it hasn't paid off. But of course that won't stop people here from posting to say I'm talking through my hat.   

I really disagree, one of the biggest improvements I've ever heard was when I first hooked my Koss Pro4AATs up to my Gilmore lite for the first time (an amp that no one will call grossly colored). The music simply became more involving and impactful, and I suppose that more subtle details were brought out, but that's a less noticeable change. However, that is going from an iPod Nano amp that is truly deficient in powering the beastly Pro4AATs to a decent desktop amplifier with power to spare.

 

<snip>

Cheap amps make little difference......  but your Gilmore is in another class, so of course it made a difference.

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Originally Posted by Katun 

So, I guess my main question now is: Should I buy a stand alone DAC to bypass the one in my CD player?

 

If that brings forth good improvement, then I would be more than happy to look into it.

IMHO, at your current level, a stand alone DAC is only needed for 'computer as a source Fi'.

Besides, how many times can you listen to the same CDs?  Thank god they invented shuffle or we'd go crazy listening to the same thing over and over again.

How do you find new music and where can you listen to it in high bit rates?

I always favored FM stereo over my record collection.  The best thing ever invented was the button radio in my car....  well, maybe not the best, but it's right up there with the TV remote....  variety, give me variety!   And if I don't like what's playing, I hit the button and I'm listening to another channel.

And now we have high bit rate internet radio......  not the 128 junk, the 192 and 320 stuff.  Check it out.  Works like a car radio.

A similar story happened to me. I was a happy user of Sennheiser HD555 headphones which I plugged directly to Musiland Monitor 02 USB DAC. But since I planned on switching to HD650 and after reading glowing reviews of Little Dot MK III I decided to buy one.

I understand, that a) my current headphones may not benefit too much from a good amplification b) the amp is still in need of some break-in - it has about 20 hours on it c) I have not started tube rolling. But anyway I was a bit discouraged by the result. My Musiland Monitor's headphone amp actually sound better - more controlled bass, more detailed sound, better treble.

So now I'm not sure what to do: either save for some time and buy HD650 or sell LD Mk III and invest into HD650 right away. Have anyone tried to power HD650 directly from Musiland Monitor 2?

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Originally Posted by GeorgeNapalm 

A similar story happened to me. I was a happy user of Sennheiser HD555 headphones which I plugged directly to Musiland Monitor 02 USB DAC. But since I planned on switching to HD650 and after reading glowing reviews of Little Dot MK III I decided to buy one.

 

I understand, that a) my current headphones may not benefit too much from a good amplification b) the amp is still in need of some break-in - it has about 20 hours on it c) I have not started tube rolling. But anyway I was a bit discouraged by the result. My Musiland Monitor's headphone amp actually sound better - more controlled bass, more detailed sound, better treble.

 

So now I'm not sure what to do: either save for some time and buy HD650 or sell LD Mk III and invest into HD650 right away. Have anyone tried to power HD650 directly from Musiland Monitor 2?

Hi
 

The Headphones are going to make a greater difference than anything else, followed by the source, followed by the amp. 

The 650s are a world class reference headphone and you won't go wrong with them. 

Another option might be the 600s which are very similar but less bassy and considered by some members of the forum to be the more neutral of the two.

And yet another option could be the 880s, but they don't sound like Sennheisers, so you might want to listen to them first.

Good Luck

Quote:

Originally Posted by upstateguy 

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeorgeNapalm 

A similar story happened to me. I was a happy user of Sennheiser HD555 headphones which I plugged directly to Musiland Monitor 02 USB DAC. But since I planned on switching to HD650 and after reading glowing reviews of Little Dot MK III I decided to buy one.

 

I understand, that a) my current headphones may not benefit too much from a good amplification b) the amp is still in need of some break-in - it has about 20 hours on it c) I have not started tube rolling. But anyway I was a bit discouraged by the result. My Musiland Monitor's headphone amp actually sound better - more controlled bass, more detailed sound, better treble.

 

So now I'm not sure what to do: either save for some time and buy HD650 or sell LD Mk III and invest into HD650 right away. Have anyone tried to power HD650 directly from Musiland Monitor 2?

 

Hi
 

The Headphones are going to make a greater difference than anything else, followed by the source, followed by the amp. 

 

The 650s are a world class reference headphone and you won't go wrong with them. 

 

Both your statements are correct IMO, and related. It isn't often noted, but one of the virtues of the higher-end Senns is their high impedance, which renders them virtually impervious to the vagaries of headphone jack output loading. There's a lot of talk about integrated amps and receivers possibly messing with the FR of different phones, but I've always used the HD650 with integrated amps and never experienced any differences that weren't attributable to the amps themselves (such as they were). A high impedance Senn will give as good a result with a quality integrated as the amp is capable of (and that can be very high), which makes the need for a separate dedicated HP amp more than questionable in my book, at least for 98% of users. The other 2% are welcome to spend up big in search of the last 2% of performance.

I remember having a similar experience buying the LD MKIII after having the HD650 and running them from and ipod. I also could not hear a difference than running from a portable amp. What I realized was that the source matters for headphone like the HD650. You need a good dac if you want to hear a difference. In the end, between the LD MKIII, X-CAN V3, and the Gilmore Lite. The LD sounded the best with the HD650. I still think they are a great value for their price.

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Originally Posted by SemiAudiophile 

 In the end, between the LD MKIII, X-CAN V3, and the Gilmore Lite. The LD sounded the best with the HD650. I still think they are a great value for their price.

The GLite has greater resolution than the LD.  What you may have liked about the LD is that it has more apparent bass and a warmer sound signature than the GL, but the LD bass, although louder, is not as clear or well defined as the GL and the treble is not as crystal clear.  <--- just my opinion

It's been too long since I've heard them. I do remember liking the tone that the LD gave the HD650 and it had a good soundstage, and texture. I think I was using Mullards. I didn't find anything special about the GL to be honest, I find them overrated most of the time.

 

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Originally Posted by upstateguy 

The GLite has greater resolution than the LD.  What you may have liked about the LD is that it has more apparent bass and a warmer sound signature than the GL, but the LD bass, although louder, is not as clear or well defined as the GL and the treble is not as crystal clear.  <--- just my opinion