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post #76 of 205

Thanks for the comparisons....I think that settles it for me then. I've pretty much gotten used to the hd580 sound signature, so the 8400 is probably too bright and bass light for my taste.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdockweiler View Post


I think the 8400 probably has treble similar to the K702. It may be bothersome for some. I think though that the treble was a bit more of a problem on the K702 I had compared to the 8400. The treble on the KNS-6400 feels a tad smoother and closer to that of the K601 I have. Maybe this is why the KNS-6400's signature felt more natural to me. What's weird is that when I compared the 8400 and the 6400 side by side, they felt pretty similar when it came to just their treble.

 

If you're happy with the bass on the K702, I'd say you'll be perfectly happy with it on the 8400. The problem is, is that there just isn't much bass impact and it's hard for some to get used to this. The bass on the KRKs is a bit different than what most people are used to hearing it seems. It seems like the KRK KNS-8400 might have better bass extension than the K702, but maybe not. I'll have to check the graphs.

 

Overall, the 8400 is close to being bass light, but not quite. Bass light to me is more like the AD700 and RE0. It's not even close to those. I guess for those that complain that the K702 doesn't have enough bass, it's best to stay very far away from the KRKs.

 

It seems the KNS-8400 may have some mid-bass hump, but I sure didn't hear that on my pair! The KNS-6400 definitely doesn't have one, which is a plus for me.

 

BTW it seems that the KRKs really do benefit a lot from amps and a good DAC. I was really surprised how much better my 6400 sounded when I got my HRT Music Streamer. Even seems to benefit more than my HD-598 for some reason.

 

 



 

post #77 of 205
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lejaz View Post

Thanks for the comparisons....I think that settles it for me then. I've pretty much gotten used to the hd580 sound signature, so the 8400 is probably too bright and bass light for my taste.
 



 


I think going from the HD-580/HD-600 would be quite the shock. At least for me. I think it's safe to say that the HD-600 will give the impression of more bass than any of the KRKs to most people. The HD-580 is also MUCH warmer and much more musical than the KRKs probably (at least compared to the 6400. Of course this will vary).

 

I think they're still worth a demo if you have any Guitar Centers in your area. Probably not though.

 

As much as I hate to say it, but the HD-580/600 does seem to have some more engaging mids than the KRK KNS-8400. Honestly, comparing the HD-600 to any of the KRKs is just a very very bad idea. I think comparing the KRKs to a Beyer DT-880  is a better match. Probably closer to the AKG sound maybe.

 

Have you heard the SRH-940? I must be the only one on here crazy enough to think that it's mids reminded me somewhat of my old HD-600. Could be my amp/dac/cable making it sound the way it does. Who knows... sounded like a weird combination of an HD-600 and maybe a K702 that was closed.

 

I don't know how on earth a headphone can sound both bright and warm at the same time, but the SRH-940 sounded that way to me confused_face_2.gif

 

I can see how many people might prefer the SRH-940 to the KRKs.

 

post #78 of 205


After a few years with the k240DF, the switch to the hd580 was a revelation. All of a sudden I was hearing BASS...and warmth. The DF is a great analytical studio phone but after hearing the warmth and low end of the Senns I can't go back. I imagine the 8400 has some similarities to the DF....good highs, great clarity, but somewhat weak bass. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdockweiler View Post


I think going from the HD-580/HD-600 would be quite the shock. At least for me. I think it's safe to say that the HD-600 will give the impression of more bass than any of the KRKs to most people. The HD-580 is also MUCH warmer and much more musical than the KRKs probably (at least compared to the 6400. Of course this will vary).

 

I think they're still worth a demo if you have any Guitar Centers in your area. Probably not though.

 

As much as I hate to say it, but the HD-580/600 does seem to have some more engaging mids than the KRK KNS-8400. Honestly, comparing the HD-600 to any of the KRKs is just a very very bad idea. I think comparing the KRKs to a Beyer DT-880  is a better match. Probably closer to the AKG sound maybe.

 

Have you heard the SRH-940? I must be the only one on here crazy enough to think that it's mids reminded me somewhat of my old HD-600. Could be my amp/dac/cable making it sound the way it does. Who knows... sounded like a weird combination of an HD-600 and maybe a K702 that was closed.

 

I don't know how on earth a headphone can sound both bright and warm at the same time, but the SRH-940 sounded that way to me confused_face_2.gif

 

I can see how many people might prefer the SRH-940 to the KRKs.

 



 

post #79 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by electropop View Post

That's where opinions vary. If you've only the pro900 to compare, it will be quite a different experience. I'm afraid I can't really be of anymore help than just to say: go for something and experience it yourself. My opinion is that they aren't really either. Overdamped might be a correct term, though I'm not too familiar with that factor. 

 

And no, monitors do not necessarily have to have a completely flat frequency responses. If you want to freak out over graphs, here's one place to do so: http://www.innerfidelity.com/headphone-data-sheet-downloads



Oh god. You just did something awful! :P

post #80 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by lejaz View Post

Thanks for the comparisons....I think that settles it for me then. I've pretty much gotten used to the hd580 sound signature, so the 8400 is probably too bright and bass light for my taste.
 



 



It's not bright at all, at least overall. Initially there was something I perceived as a spike, but not anymore. I have some phones on reference and might even safely conclude that it's a burn-in issue! ... I'm not sure I believe this myself. However, now the treble is fast and smooth. I wouldn't call them being similar to the 702's. 

 

Bass is explicitly tuneful!

post #81 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by electropop View Post



It's not bright at all, at least overall. Initially there was something I perceived as a spike, but not anymore. I have some phones on reference and might even safely conclude that it's a burn-in issue! ... I'm not sure I believe this myself. However, now the treble is fast and smooth. I wouldn't call them being similar to the 702's. 

 

Bass is explicitly tuneful!

Interesting....thanks. Not being similar to the 702 is a good thing! wink.gif in some regards anyway. Have you heard the sony v6 or 7506? If so, are the krk's at all like those in frequency response? Those are too bright as well, imo, though they have good mid bass.  
 

 

post #82 of 205
Thread Starter 

I just picked up another pair of these at Guitar Center. I brought in a price match sheet printed from B&H, but they were in stock and already at $119!

 

Got them home and am shocked at how good these sound right out of the box. I don't know what the heck is going on, but this pair sounds much warmer and the mids are much fuller sounding than on my 6400 and compared to what I remember of my previous pairs.

First thing that popped up within a few minutes is how good the soundstage is. Acoustic guitar music sounds amazing. Try listening to Ali Farka Toure on these. It really does feel like a semi-open headphone.

 

I'm going to hold off on comments until I listen to them more.

 

The Clip I have seems to drive many hard to drive headphones quite well (weird, I know), but with these I have to crank them to max with anything with a large soundstage. With my DJ100 and the clip it's at about 90% which is actually quite high.

 

$120 headphones really shouldn't sound this good.

 

Maybe both of the pairs I had were very, very early versions.

 

One thing I noticed is that this pair has completely new packaging. The headphones came in a plastic shell inside the box. The cable looks very different too and didn't seem to tangle or be in some weird random shape out of the box. Probably no way to confirm if it's different, but it's possible.Feels the same though.

 

BTW the V6 I had had this really annoying mid-bass hump that nearly always distracted me. To make it worse, they were too bright and had some strange recession in the mids somewhere that made me feel as if something was missing. It's hard to describe. People say the 7506 is the same, but I prefer the 7506. It's a good headphone for the price, but still has a mid-bass hump that's annoying. It's treble bothered me less though. Either of the KRKs are more balanced for sure to my ears. I imagine the KRKs have more sub-bass but I haven't seen the Sony graphs in awhile. 7506 is quite decent, but sound clarity is a step down to the KRKs, but actually a better headphone than the latest Sony ZX700 to me. I basically hated the ZX700, but I'm really way too picky maybe.

post #83 of 205

Glad you tried them again.  I've had my second pair for a couple days now and they sound just as great as my previous pair.  I also modified the headband, like with my last pair, to make them a bit more comfortable.  I have an issue with the cable, though.  When it's fully locked in the earcup, the bass is all messed up.  It's only when I just plug it in and not twist it that it sounds normal.  It's weird.  Worst case scenario, it's kind of a quick release (it's fairly secure), but it'd be nice to have it work the way it's supposed to.

post #84 of 205

Quote:

Originally Posted by lejaz View Post

Interesting....thanks. Not being similar to the 702 is a good thing! wink.gif in some regards anyway. Have you heard the sony v6 or 7506? If so, are the krk's at all like those in frequency response? Those are too bright as well, imo, though they have good mid bass.  
 

 


I have the 7506, the 6400 (sold) and now the 8400. For me the 7506 is not bright but the treble has this very minor harshness, the arise of  treble with 7506 is more abrupt,  in comparison the 8400 treble actually has more energy but at the same time smoother. I am sensitive to bright phones and sold my RS2i because it was too much sometimes, but can handle both the 7506 and 8400. Now bear in mind there are different generations of the 7506 so your impressions may not accord exactly with my pair.

 

One can say that the frequency reponse of the two are similar, neither would qualify as bass prominent cans, but the subjective listening experience is quite different. The 8400 has this effervescent transparency and livliness to it, provided the up-stream components are up to it. In fact the 8400 is more demanding than 7506 in this regard. In contrast the 7506 is more textured and sound more real to me with some recordings, I just hope that the 8400 will improve in this regard with run-in. One thing I found is the 8400 needs a lot of run-in. It is true that the details are there right from the beginning, but it takes time for it to smooth out and notes deepen. Also it seems to pair much better with solid state amp than tubes.

 

I was thinking of getting the AKG K271, but wonder if it is still worthwhile to do so.

 

post #85 of 205


Quote:

Originally Posted by Greeni View Post

Quote:


I have the 7506, the 6400 (sold) and now the 8400. For me the 7506 is not bright but the treble has this very minor harshness, the arise of  treble with 7506 is more abrupt,  in comparison the 8400 treble actually has more energy but at the same time smoother. I am sensitive to bright phones and sold my RS2i because it was too much sometimes, but can handle both the 7506 and 8400. Now bear in mind there are different generations of the 7506 so your impressions may not accord exactly with my pair.

 

One can say that the frequency reponse of the two are similar, neither would qualify as bass prominent cans, but the subjective listening experience is quite different. The 8400 has this effervescent transparency and livliness to it, provided the up-stream components are up to it. In fact the 8400 is more demanding than 7506 in this regard. In contrast the 7506 is more textured and sound more real to me with some recordings, I just hope that the 8400 will improve in this regard with run-in. One thing I found is the 8400 needs a lot of run-in. It is true that the details are there right from the beginning, but it takes time for it to smooth out and notes deepen. Also it seems to pair much better with solid state amp than tubes.

 

I was thinking of getting the AKG K271, but wonder if it is still worthwhile to do so.

 

I think there must be a lot of variations in different production runs of the v6 and 7506. I use the k240DF as my reference for the midrange, and I had to cut 4dB around 4khz on the v6 to get the midrange to sound as flat as the k240. Mine is REALLY harsh with some material.  
 

@tdockweiler: about the v6, you said, "To make it worse, they were too bright and had some strange recession in the mids somewhere that made me feel as if something was missing. " I couldn't agree more. It's not the mids, it's the very upper range of the bass that's recessed and makes it feel like something is missing....because it is....warmth, that is! Good to hear that the KRK's are more balanced. I know Best Buy carries the KRK speakers, so perhaps they are also carrying the headphones now. If I get a chance to audition them I definitely will. 

post #86 of 205

I think what impresses me most about the KRKs is the bass extension. They can hit down to the super low sub-bass without too much trouble -- it's just as underemphasized as the rest of the bass without EQ, though. 

post #87 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greeni View Post

Quote:


I have the 7506, the 6400 (sold) and now the 8400. For me the 7506 is not bright but the treble has this very minor harshness, the arise of  treble with 7506 is more abrupt,  in comparison the 8400 treble actually has more energy but at the same time smoother. I am sensitive to bright phones and sold my RS2i because it was too much sometimes, but can handle both the 7506 and 8400. Now bear in mind there are different generations of the 7506 so your impressions may not accord exactly with my pair.

 

One can say that the frequency reponse of the two are similar, neither would qualify as bass prominent cans, but the subjective listening experience is quite different. The 8400 has this effervescent transparency and livliness to it, provided the up-stream components are up to it. In fact the 8400 is more demanding than 7506 in this regard. In contrast the 7506 is more textured and sound more real to me with some recordings, I just hope that the 8400 will improve in this regard with run-in. One thing I found is the 8400 needs a lot of run-in. It is true that the details are there right from the beginning, but it takes time for it to smooth out and notes deepen. Also it seems to pair much better with solid state amp than tubes.

 

I was thinking of getting the AKG K271, but wonder if it is still worthwhile to do so.

 


I think they are very textured cans. Even those quick transients, even though sharp, seem to have "body" to them. Something that defines timbre, maybe. I have the K272HD's and German Maestro GMP 8.35D's to compare and neither of them hold as much texture to instruments. The KRK is the least flawed and most versatile can of the bunch. I was hoping more from the 8.35's, since I really appreciate their build, but they can't really stand up to the KRK's. 

 

post #88 of 205
Thread Starter 

I listened to these for about 4 hours last night. Anything classical sounds about perfect. I wish I had the K550 still just to compare the soundstage size because I think the KNS-8400 gets pretty close. Now it's not like an open headphone, but I find it extremely good for a closed headphone. Female vocals are especially good on these. I'm going to try Skyrim with these today and see how well they do. BTW the mids on the KNS-8400 are much better than those on the K550. KNS-8400 IMO is much clearer sound too, but the K550 probably has more bass. On the K550 the only things that impressed me was the  soundstage size and it's bass. Most don't agree, but with my setup it did have more bass than the Q701.

 

This is really bizarre because my last KNS-8400 sounded quite different. It's mids were MUCH more relaxed. Not recessed, just not forward. The mids of this pair seem a lot better and a little bit more engaging. It makes no sense really.

 

It seems though that on some of my songs some of the sub-bass is a bit hard to hear. On this one song while I'm listening to it, it feels as if someone is breaking down my door outside my headphone. It's barely present on the KNS-8400 for some reason until I EQ the bass (which I never ever do). It seems the graph is about right. It's all there, but not as present as on some other headphones. Just barely audible. The bass on my DJ100 is a bit better, but that's not a studio monitor. I'm going to hook them up to a better amp and see if the sound changes. I do think if they added more bass, it'd sacrifice the sound too much.

 

I noticed a few weeks ago when I used my KNS-6400 with my new DAC and good amp, the soundstage increased in size. The KRKs really do seem to improve with a good amp/dac. I'll see if the bass improves and I'm sure it will. I haven't burned them in yet, but most likely this will happen while it's on my head.

 

Thankfully, just like my last pairs these don't tame any bright and harsh music it seems. Keeps it just as it is without making it sound any better. Some people may not like this, but I do. With all the headphones out there, it's sometimes so easy to blame the headphone when it's really just the music's fault for being junk!

 

These are definitely warmer sounding and have more textured mids than my last pair it seems like. When it comes to an engaging and fun sound, they definitely could be much better competition now to the SRH-940. As a studio monitor the KRKs had the SRH-940 beat I think, but just were not quite as fun to listen to (IMO). At least not my last pair or the KNS-6400. Actually despite the SRH-940 being a bit more fun for some music, I still prefer the KRKs by far.

 

Today I'll compare the 6400 and 8400 some more and see if I can pick apart some more differences.

 

 


Edited by tdockweiler - 12/20/11 at 8:11am
post #89 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdockweiler View Post

I listened to these for about 4 hours last night. Anything classical sounds about perfect. I wish I had the K550 still just to compare the soundstage size because I think the KNS-8400 gets pretty close. Now it's not like an open headphone, but I find it extremely good for a closed headphone. Female vocals are especially good on these. I'm going to try Skyrim with these today and see how well they do. BTW the mids on the KNS-8400 are much better than those on the K550. KNS-8400 IMO is much clearer sound too, but the K550 probably has more bass. On the K550 the only things that impressed me was the  soundstage size and it's bass. Most don't agree, but with my setup it did have more bass than the Q701.

 



Hi Tdockweiler, Interesting you brough up the Q701, that was on my radar too. Judging from your experience with K550, would you say the Q701 which is a lower model present no signficant advantage over the KRK ? Thanks for introducing these great phones to us.

 

post #90 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdockweiler View Post

I listened to these for about 4 hours last night. Anything classical sounds about perfect. I wish I had the K550 still just to compare the soundstage size because I think the KNS-8400 gets pretty close. Now it's not like an open headphone, but I find it extremely good for a closed headphone. Female vocals are especially good on these. I'm going to try Skyrim with these today and see how well they do. BTW the mids on the KNS-8400 are much better than those on the K550. KNS-8400 IMO is much clearer sound too, but the K550 probably has more bass. On the K550 the only things that impressed me was the  soundstage size and it's bass. Most don't agree, but with my setup it did have more bass than the Q701.

 

This is really bizarre because my last KNS-8400 sounded quite different. It's mids were MUCH more relaxed. Not recessed, just not forward. The mids of this pair seem a lot better and a little bit more engaging. It makes no sense really.

 

It seems though that on some of my songs some of the sub-bass is a bit hard to hear. On this one song while I'm listening to it, it feels as if someone is breaking down my door outside my headphone. It's barely present on the KNS-8400 for some reason until I EQ the bass (which I never ever do). It seems the graph is about right. It's all there, but not as present as on some other headphones. Just barely audible. The bass on my DJ100 is a bit better, but that's not a studio monitor. I'm going to hook them up to a better amp and see if the sound changes. I do think if they added more bass, it'd sacrifice the sound too much.

 

I noticed a few weeks ago when I used my KNS-6400 with my new DAC and good amp, the soundstage increased in size. The KRKs really do seem to improve with a good amp/dac. I'll see if the bass improves and I'm sure it will. I haven't burned them in yet, but most likely this will happen while it's on my head.

 

Thankfully, just like my last pairs these don't tame any bright and harsh music it seems. Keeps it just as it is without making it sound any better. Some people may not like this, but I do. With all the headphones out there, it's sometimes so easy to blame the headphone when it's really just the music's fault for being junk!

 

These are definitely warmer sounding and have more textured mids than my last pair it seems like. When it comes to an engaging and fun sound, they definitely could be much better competition now to the SRH-940. As a studio monitor the KRKs had the SRH-940 beat I think, but just were not quite as fun to listen to (IMO). At least not my last pair or the KNS-6400. Actually despite the SRH-940 being a bit more fun for some music, I still prefer the KRKs by far.

 

Today I'll compare the 6400 and 8400 some more and see if I can pick apart some more differences.

 

 


Sounds like you need to buy a few new pairs of 6400 and find the best one. rolleyes.gif Sorry, I couldn't believe there is such drastic differences between three examples. I doubt myself for placebo and even more someone else, especially since you haven't compared the three individuals directly. 

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