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Beats By Dre: The Secrets - Page 3

post #31 of 173

Geesh.  Show a little respect to tomb.   He's a huge contributor to this site.   The fact of the matter is that hi-fi is a niche market.  When you factor in the cost of a DAC, amplifiers, and cables to go along with it, the average consumer is going give you a crazy look and ask "why, are you crazy or something?"  The average consumer demands musically when it comes to headphones and don't give too much a hoot about the analytical aspects of the music.  For musicians, music producers and artists, the demand is just the opposite.  I bet most of them only have a can or two at most versus some crazy count the many members have accumulated and end up selling sooner or later.  There really isn't any secrets of persuading the mass market to think something is super when in actuality, it's mediocre at best.  Those with deepest marketing pockets will always have control of the cash cow.  This is how it works and will always be this way.   You can't blame or talk down a company for wanting to take advantage of getting a piece of the cash cow by producing products for the masses that goes in the complete opposite of there flagship products that are tailored for a different marketing audience.

post #32 of 173


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaphoenix View Post

Geesh.  Show a little respect to tomb.   He's a huge contributor to this site.   The fact of the matter is that hi-fi is a niche market.  When you factor in the cost of a DAC, amplifiers, and cables to go along with it, the average consumer is going give you a crazy look and ask "why, are you crazy or something?"  The average consumer demands musically when it comes to headphones and don't give too much a hoot about the analytical aspects of the music.  For musicians, music producers and artists, the demand is just the opposite.  I bet most of them only have a can or two at most versus some crazy count the many members have accumulated and end up selling sooner or later.  There really isn't any secrets of persuading the mass market to think something is super when in actuality, it's mediocre at best.  Those with deepest marketing pockets will always have control of the cash cow.  This is how it works and will always be this way.   You can't blame or talk down a company for wanting to take advantage of getting a piece of the cash cow by producing products for the masses that goes in the complete opposite of there flagship products that are tailored for a different marketing audience.

+1 Personally I know I have respect for everyone here even if our ideas may differ..As long as people are happy with what they got..good for them though I might help them along a better sq route if they become serious about audio
 

post #33 of 173

Ah, marketing...it can make or break just about anything. I think that article was a supreme study in saying absolutely nothing at all and hawking a product at the same time. The references to Sennheiser and AKG were purposefully brief, in order to diminish their repute. The bit about the Beats effort being not just a name slapped on a set of cans was aimed squarely at AKG, whom they know has a headphone that is about a billion times better than the Beats. The focus on style and star power is intended to appeal to the average, impressionable consumer reading, and to silence the geek, who knows this is a bunch of BS. Why else point out that Sony, Skullcandy, and Bose sell the most headphones? Everybody knows that hi-fi is a niche market--I suppose the Pinto is a better car than the Jaguar, just because more people probably own them than Jaguars.

 

And, of course, you'll notice that the article says nothing about the actual sound of these things. Its author instead seems to wet himself/herself about how "brilliant" Monster was by commissioning the Beats line.

 

I agree with some of the sentiments in this thread--the way to beat these marketing-driven companies right where it hurts the most: the bottom line. There's no reason Sennheiser, AKG, beyerdynamic, et al, with their superior engineering capacity, can't create easy to drive, reasonably high quality headphones, and then market the heck out of them and sell them for a fraction of what these fashion/celebrity-driven companies do. You see, the Achilles Heel in all this is that celebrities cost money--buko bucks. Maybe Dr. Dre wears Beats, but you'd be surprised how convincing an argument a bunch of smiling, attractive, nameless people wearing a PX 100 II could make if Sennheiser made the effort.

 

I'm aware that they do have some headphones like this, but I'm only using Sennheiser as an example. Where's beyerdynamic, for instance, or Audio-Technica? I know they have some lower cost headphones--the ATH-FC700A looks like it might be really nice, for instance--but for the most part we never see these products offered anywhere. I'm aware that the high end of the market has been changing a lot over the past few years and it's time- and resource consuming to keep up (as AKG unfortunately seems to have discovered), but would it kill one of them to go the route of, say, Phiaton? Those headphones are actually supposed to be pretty good. Not sublime, but solid. And they look cool as all get out. I can't imagine anybody who would want anything by Bose if offered an MS 400, unless they're a dyed in the wool Bose-o-phile. You could market this product. And, guess what I found in the latest edition of PCWorld? A full-spread advertisement for Phiaton cans!

 

Sorry for the length, but I just wanted to put down my thoughts here. Like I said, marketing is a tremendously powerful thing, but the dirty little secret is that people really don't want to pay very much for anything. If they feel they have to (or are suitably impressed because Lady GaGa has her name slapped all over it), then they'll plump down the cash. But, there are always going to be people drawn to celebrities. Let them read Star magazine and follow Britney obsessively. I'm more interested in the guy who doesn't know any better but heard that those Bose or Beats headphones were pretty good. He doesn't have a lot invested in that decision. It could just as easily be that those Sennheiser or AKG cans are pretty good, if only somebody would get that message to him first. And, if it turns out that the Senns cost a quarter of the Bose ones, he'll feel like he made out like a bandit.

 

I think the magic number is around $100, as this seems to be the most common upper limit posted by new Head-Fi'ers looking for advice.

post #34 of 173

lol When I first saw these at Best Buy I read the price wrong and thought it said $30. I was like "Man, those dudes at Head-Fi are just too damn harsh. These aren't the greatest phones you can get for $30 but they're not that bad."

 

Then I read the price again, laughed and walked away feeling sorry for any brand sheep ignorant enough to buy these.

post #35 of 173

Anyone else listen to the Beats Pro? As I said, I think they sound pretty good after proper burn in.

post #36 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmyz View Post

Anyone else listen to the Beats Pro? As I said, I think they sound pretty good after proper burn in.



Plus, I can get em for only 225!!!

post #37 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olimoronio View Post

lol When I first saw these at Best Buy I read the price wrong and thought it said $30. I was like "Man, those dudes at Head-Fi are just too damn harsh. These aren't the greatest phones you can get for $30 but they're not that bad."

 

Then I read the price again, laughed and walked away feeling sorry for any brand sheep ignorant enough to buy these.

Lol
 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmyz View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmyz View Post

Anyone else listen to the Beats Pro? As I said, I think they sound pretty good after proper burn in.



Plus, I can get em for only 225!!!

If you enjoy the sound, go for them but I think looking around a little bit might pay off in the long run. Just my 2 cents
 

post #38 of 173

Further to my previous post, looks and celebrity appeal sell. It's unfathomable to me and frankly disgusts me sometimes, but it's incontrovertible. Sad as it is, you just can't make people care or notice the difference in things for which they lack the sophistication. And I mean that in the true sense of the word, not the snobbish one: most people simply lack the ear to appreciate hifi, in much the same way somebody could show me a table full of $1000+ baseball cards and I couldn't care less. On the other hand, they do want to own equipment that they believe is classified as hifi, for the bragging rights and appearance.

 

Take a look at my beyerdynamic DT880. Most people would wonder why I had such an "old," ugly headphone. Sadly, put it on their heads, and then they get it. But by the time most people put an expensive pair of headphones on their head, it says Bose or Monster on the box. Looks are important. The AKG K701 was, paradoxically, a good choice for Quincy-ization because, at least IMHO, it's one of the coolest looking headphones in current production.* Also, AKG takes a calculated risk that most people wouldn't recognize what they were missing with a poorly-amped K701. The idea is that people will buy something that looks studio-serious and cool at the same time, and that other people looking, even without knowing who AKG is, will know that the Q701 is expensive. Unfortunately, I can only see failure ahead, as even properly amped the K701 lacks the bass impact the average consumer associates with "good" sound.

 

*Full disclosure: I think Grados are awesome looking, so maybe my sense of style doesn't count!

post #39 of 173

I first started with cheapy ipod headphones then went to the skullcandies because they were at target. They were still a great improvement from the ipod earbuds. Then when they broke 6 months later I started looking at better headphones then I got the sennheiser hd438s. They look great(in my opinon) and they sound a whole lot better. I use my hd438s at school to and I get some interesting stares but I dont care lol. Later I tried the solo beats at a nearby bestbuy and was like wow my 80 dollar cans beat these in everything lol. Although I actually took the time to research for information. Soon got to get some akg 240s for my room. But anyways the beats are good because then maybe people like me may actually care when they brake and look up information about serious headphones and amplifiers. I am also only in highschool and I see people talking about the beats and seeing people with them and their beats but I try and spread the word about quality headphones. Overall atleast people are getting into better then ipod earbud quality headphonessmily_headphones1.gif

post #40 of 173

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomb View Post



Quote:
Are you a troll or do you have a messed up sense of logic! I fyou can't provide people who do not have any audio equipment a headphone that is decent without it then the headphone you do provide will sound bad. It will leave a bad taste in the mmouth of the consumer market. They don't know any better and they don't want to spend another $200-1000 for an amp and a Decent CD player or DAC.

 

If they really wanted to try then they would produce a new headphone with the new colors that would be easy to drive.

 

If they wanted to do it right they would have made the Q271 or Q272 that would be much better for the consumer market. It's easier to drive and it's closed back which much of the consumer market demands.

A troll?  Take a look at my post count and yours.

 

You have a sad and arrogant opinion about people.  "They don't know any better ..." and "they don't want to spend another $200-100 for an amp ...?"

 

Why do you think you're so much smarter than they are?  You learned didn't you?  Are you saying no one else but you and me and a few Head-Fier's can learn to apply an amp to a top-of-the-line headphone?  That's sad.

 

 

In a world where Jersey Shore is "damn good television" I doubt most people can learn to apply an amp to an outlet let alone a headphone...  Then again, I'm only speaking for the US of A.

post #41 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by impaledface View Post

I first started with cheapy ipod headphones then went to the skullcandies because they were at target. They were still a great improvement from the ipod earbuds. Then when they broke 6 months later I started looking at better headphones then I got the sennheiser hd438s. They look great(in my opinon) and they sound a whole lot better. I use my hd438s at school to and I get some interesting stares but I dont care lol. Later I tried the solo beats at a nearby bestbuy and was like wow my 80 dollar cans beat these in everything lol. Although I actually took the time to research for information. Soon got to get some akg 240s for my room. But anyways the beats are good because then maybe people like me may actually care when they brake and look up information about serious headphones and amplifiers. I am also only in highschool and I see people talking about the beats and seeing people with them and their beats but I try and spread the word about quality headphones. Overall atleast people are getting into better then ipod earbud quality headphonessmily_headphones1.gif

Glad your happy with purchases lol..beats do have their uses..and totally agree that almost anything is an improvement over ibuds..glads someone is spreading the word..I'm working on friends who are like Bose rocks..though got some serious audiophile friends too
 

post #42 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Argyris View Post

Further to my previous post, looks and celebrity appeal sell. It's unfathomable to me and frankly disgusts me sometimes, but it's incontrovertible. Sad as it is, you just can't make people care or notice the difference in things for which they lack the sophistication. And I mean that in the true sense of the word, not the snobbish one: most people simply lack the ear to appreciate hifi, in much the same way somebody could show me a table full of $1000+ baseball cards and I couldn't care less. On the other hand, they do want to own equipment that they believe is classified as hifi, for the bragging rights and appearance.

 

Take a look at my beyerdynamic DT880. Most people would wonder why I had such an "old," ugly headphone. Sadly, put it on their heads, and then they get it. But by the time most people put an expensive pair of headphones on their head, it says Bose or Monster on the box. Looks are important. The AKG K701 was, paradoxically, a good choice for Quincy-ization because, at least IMHO, it's one of the coolest looking headphones in current production.* Also, AKG takes a calculated risk that most people wouldn't recognize what they were missing with a poorly-amped K701. The idea is that people will buy something that looks studio-serious and cool at the same time, and that other people looking, even without knowing who AKG is, will know that the Q701 is expensive. Unfortunately, I can only see failure ahead, as even properly amped the K701 lacks the bass impact the average consumer associates with "good" sound.

 

*Full disclosure: I think Grados are awesome looking, so maybe my sense of style doesn't count!



+1 for the post and +10^6 for Grados looking awesome!

 

In the fashion world, Ed Hardy was/is the number one line of clothes despised by all "true" fashionistas/sters.  It sold well because Audigier's marketed it towards celebrities.  Celebrities wear it, followers follow.

post #43 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by xXFallenAngelXx View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by Olimoronio View Post

lol When I first saw these at Best Buy I read the price wrong and thought it said $30. I was like "Man, those dudes at Head-Fi are just too damn harsh. These aren't the greatest phones you can get for $30 but they're not that bad."

 

Then I read the price again, laughed and walked away feeling sorry for any brand sheep ignorant enough to buy these.

Lol
 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmyz View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmyz View Post

Anyone else listen to the Beats Pro? As I said, I think they sound pretty good after proper burn in.



Plus, I can get em for only 225!!!

If you enjoy the sound, go for them but I think looking around a little bit might pay off in the long run. Just my 2 cents
 


What would you recommend for 225 that has more low end punch than the Beats Pro? If there really aren't any good competitors at 225, then what about compared to the retail price of 399?

 

post #44 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by impaledface View Post

I first started with cheapy ipod headphones then went to the skullcandies because they were at target. They were still a great improvement from the ipod earbuds. Then when they broke 6 months later I started looking at better headphones then I got the sennheiser hd438s. They look great(in my opinon) and they sound a whole lot better. I use my hd438s at school to and I get some interesting stares but I dont care lol. Later I tried the solo beats at a nearby bestbuy and was like wow my 80 dollar cans beat these in everything lol. Although I actually took the time to research for information. Soon got to get some akg 240s for my room. But anyways the beats are good because then maybe people like me may actually care when they brake and look up information about serious headphones and amplifiers. I am also only in highschool and I see people talking about the beats and seeing people with them and their beats but I try and spread the word about quality headphones. Overall atleast people are getting into better then ipod earbud quality headphonessmily_headphones1.gif


 

Unfortunately, the Beats may be their serious headphone...

post #45 of 173

The Philips SHP2500's go lower than the Beats and they sound better too. The cost $12 online lol

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