Larry at Headphile is selling a "like new" condition Sennheiser HE90 Orpheus...is that the going... - Page 4

Quote:

Originally Posted by vvanrij 

Ok now I'm jealous. This is some serious Head-fi pr0n.

children cover your eyes!

The simple issue with the HE90 is that it is a highly colored transducer and it does not work well with transparent amps.  You only need to look inside the HEV90 to see what damage Sennheiser did with cheap parts (Wima MKS4 coupling caps being a large factor here) and a horrific PSU design just to make it match the headphones better. 

 Spritzer, you've gone and burst by bubble with this revelation.

Thr HEV90/HE90 still sounded better than the Stax O2/SRM007t II I heard.

I have no doubt that an O2 and KGBH or BHSE would trump the Orpheus - I have yet to hear it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by spritzer 

The simple issue with the HE90 is that it is a highly colored transducer and it does not work well with transparent amps.  You only need to look inside the HEV90 to see what damage Sennheiser did with cheap parts (Wima MKS4 coupling caps being a large factor here) and a horrific PSU design just to make it match the headphones better. 

Spritzer - yes, I'd read your feedback from a few years ago when you were making your comparisons between the O2 and HE90 which as always and without exception is very helpful and a great perspective.  They are definitely light in the LF's and have a leaner sound (likely as a result) so I can see why pairing them with the tubes that add warmth would bring back a better tonal balance (which is effectively like EQ'ing them).  However, I've been A/B'ing them with the O2 Mk1 and there are details and information I'm hearing with them (very finessed details, like room/spatial cues, greater detail on the air moving through wind instruments like the trumpet or flute, the texture of a bow moving over strings, hearing nuances to vocals in the throat, etc.) that are not showing up at all with the O2.  It's not coloration in this aspect, it's more information I'm hearing (in my setup, all else equal, YMMV; dont have the BHSE driving the O2's, warmer amp could be favoring the HE90's, etc).  It could be partially an upper treble peak that contributes to this, but it's there nonetheless.  If my comparison is live music / absolute sound, the HE90 is presenting a sound which, while lacking in tonal balance compared to the O2, it still feels more "live" and "being there" in much of the music I'm listening to.  The O2 sounds veiled in the HF's in comparison.  But as you've pointed out before this "initial impression" could be just that.  I can see why the O2 might be more enjoyable for listening to music over the long term for some depending on source components and amp.  You've talked about vocals being more/too diffuse with the HE90 - what I hear is more diffusion, yes, but also echoes of the voices off the walls of the recording studio, or the size of a larger live venue with greater clarity, more air and space around instruments (don't know why this would be considered manufactured).  Another point discussed is the HE90's handling of complex passages versus the O2, and while this is probably true, I did hear a couple songs where the HE90 sorted out the layers and textures far more effectively, especially at higher volumes, than did the O2 (but need far more time and musical selection on this one, no conclusions yet).  But to wrap this initial impression, I just go back to all of my days in the music field when I played a bunch of different instruments, composed and conducted and spent countless hours in orchestra pits and in stage environments (nothing serious or impressive, but lots of time to train my ears nonetheless) - the HE90 reminds me more of this experience.  So we can complain about the HE90 not being perfect, which it definitely isn't, but it unquestionably has some impressive performance and characteristics going for it.  While I've always been an audiophile purist and never used an EQ, my DAC has a built-in parametric EQ and adding one or two very subtle/minimal points in the lower octaves did bring a nicer balance to the sound (yes the purist can argue you're adding "color"/imbalance to compensate for "color"/imbalance), but the net effect is how enjoyable is the music and how "being there" does it sound.  I've got a few many-decade audiophiles coming over in the coming weeks so for fun will have them spend some time with their favorite music on each.

Aren't you using a WES?  If so then the SR-007 is very much fighting an uphill battle on so many levels. 

As for my old impressions, those were happy days.  All the crazies came out of the woodwork and showered me with threats and wrote me off as insane.  I spent half the day filling up the ignore list back then.  The effect of a high sticker price is just astounding...  With regards to the imaging, my impressions from all those years ago haven't changed even after having 4 pairs here.  We might be listening to very different music but that soft reverb isn't neutral to my ears and clearly not part of the original signal.  Since none of my other transducers show this off including the annoyingly transparent SR-X Mk3 Pro and 4070. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by wink 

Quote:

 Originally Posted by spritzer 

The simple issue with the HE90 is that it is a highly colored transducer and it does not work well with transparent amps.  You only need to look inside the HEV90 to see what damage Sennheiser did with cheap parts (Wima MKS4 coupling caps being a large factor here) and a horrific PSU design just to make it match the headphones better.  

 

 Spritzer, you've gone and burst by bubble with this revelation.

Thr HEV90/HE90 still sounded better than the Stax O2/SRM007t II I heard.

I have no doubt that an O2 and KGBH or BHSE would trump the Orpheus - I have yet to hear it.

i'd not be so quick in coming to the conclusion that you'd find a different & unheard rig superior.  many experienced listeners having heard both have come to different conclusions. as always, YMMV!

the Aristeus amp may further improve the performance of the Orpheus.  my understanding is that it is essentially the hev90 circuit better executed. perhaps Birgir can comment about this, given his technical knowledge.

@Spritzer

I am using a WES (and have read your views on that too ).  It's nice to know I can get more out of the O2 and will look forward to experiencing that over time.  I 100% share your observations of Mk2 vs Mk1.  To the reverb point, since I come from the world of sound reproduction with speakers, perhaps I'm trained to hear some amount of it (room acoustics), but what I find potentially interesting with the HE90 is that the nature of this sound from what I've heard so far is not consistent between tracks and seems to depend on the recording (to which I assumed was the result of mic placement, room size / venue, etc.), thereby having validity in the reproduction.  So will spend more time on this.  As to the some of the details I'm hearing, I really do trust my ears that in this setup I'm hearing subtle audible details not showing up with the O2's (which when taken as a whole...).  Of course I could be losing my mind or my ears, not sure what I'd want to have happen first :)   I'm happy to assume based on your experience that the O2's will meet/exceed this with an ideally paired amp. 

The Aristaeus is indeed a souped up version of the HEV90.  Gone is the terrible switching PSU and replaced with a linear, regulated unit.  Better resistors, better trimpots (I truly hate those Pfier units Sennheiser used), better coupling and I/O capacitors and a far better layout all make the Aristaeus superior. 

I'm going to build an Aristaeus with a variation of the new KGSSHV PSU but there are many ways to crack this particular nut.  I've even designed a fully balanced version of the HEV90 that uses only triodes (the ECL86 is half triode/half pentode but the pentode is run as a triode) but I've yet to finish building it. 

One funny thing, I was sent a "top secret" Sennheiser document where they teach service techs to change the HEV90 to use PCL86 tubes.  The reason was that the world supply of ECL's suddenly dried up in 2005...

Quote:

Originally Posted by silverlight 

@Spritzer

I am using a WES (and have read your views on that too ).  It's nice to know I can get more out of the O2 and will look forward to experiencing that over time.  I 100% share your observations of Mk2 vs Mk1.  To the reverb point, since I come from the world of sound reproduction with speakers, perhaps I'm trained to hear some amount of it (room acoustics), but what I find potentially interesting with the HE90 is that the nature of this sound from what I've heard so far is not consistent between tracks and seems to depend on the recording (to which I assumed was the result of mic placement, room size / venue, etc.), thereby having validity in the reproduction.  So will spend more time on this.  As to the some of the details I'm hearing, I really do trust my ears that in this setup I'm hearing subtle audible details not showing up with the O2's (which when taken as a whole...).  Of course I could be losing my mind or my ears, not sure what I'd want to have happen first :)   I'm happy to assume based on your experience that the O2's will meet/exceed this with an ideally paired amp. 

Hehe, can't say I'm a WES fan.  What always got me with the HE90 was the assumption that is was so expensive that it had to be good.  That is an aspect of this hobby I truly have a problem with...

techno-babble aside, after owning the Stax SR-007mk1/717 and having listened to the Stax Omega (direct comparison to orpheus), I have to say the Sennheiser Orpheus system is far better. Listening to metal I think the stax 007 will be a better option (more bassy and veiled), but for classical, opera, acoustic etc. the Orpheus has a timbre and magic the Stax never comes close to.

I presently own the Sennheiser Orpheus.

If listening to the Orpheus system, you must be aware that is is almost 20 years old, and it is essential to replace tubes and capacitors in the amps, otherwise the sound will be very thin and unfocused.

Just added a quad of Mullard el34 XF2 double halos to the amp (I had tried a couple sets with the O2's but they didn't sound right), and found a pristine NOS set and they pair exceptionally well with the HE90's.  Warmer and more bass provide a great tonal balance (only drawback is that there's a very slight roll off of the HF's so a tiny amount of detail not there compared to the Shuguang 50yr Treasures I was using).  Also using Mullard 5AR4's which also compliment the sound with similar characteristics.  In any event, thought I'd pass along the observations.

It's odd that the XF2's didn't work with the SR-007 as that is the usual "go to" tube for the Omegas. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by spritzer 

It's odd that the XF2's didn't work with the SR-007 as that is the usual "go to" tube for the Omegas. 

I think it's probably the amp / tube combination at play, but once I get my hands on the BHSE I'll let you know.  If the WES has a warmer signature and the O2's are reflecting this, adding a tube with a little more warmth could be compounding (bass was slightly bloated and little roll-off in the highs with the O2's - haven't tried this set with my O2's which I will).  Not to provoke any comments from you on the subject (), but let's say in theory the BHSE was a more neutral cleaner signal, can see why that would be a very different story with these tubes.

Besides offering more power and all the benefits that brings, the BHSE is far more neutral.  It is fully DC coupled so no caps in the signal path while the WES is fully capacitor coupled.  On top of this we have better PSU design in the BHSE so the amp is properly fed and lets not discount how power affects the sound.  The whole idea behind the original T2 design was to offer plenty of power at every amplifying stage which makes it more neutral.  The inability of the amp to supply current when the transducers need it will cause voltage sag and by definition make the sound not true to the original source. 

As for why the tubes sound so different, the XF2 is celebrated for being neutral and being the best choice in dozens of amp designs so something is clearly wrong here.  Bloated bass and rolled off highs just go to show the SR-007 is starving for more power here. 

Assuming were talking just about the E and the not the EV, then I sold mine in basically mint cond for the same as I paid Meier for it. Which might, if what I read here, have been a bit of a mistake.

In the same transaction I even exchanged an SRM-007t for an old Max as I wanted a companion for a K701... which the guy told me 'had a few problems' just before he walked out of the door

...but that's water under the bridge.

If we're talking about a HE/V90 setup, then I paid ~$10K before shipping for a 'mint' example, I guess just before the prices for the Orpheii blew up - which turned out to be a great deal less than mint. Sigh.

Hello all

have you seen this ?

http://cgi.ebay.fr/Sennheiser-Orpheus-HE90-HEV90-/120663225606?pt=UK_AudioVisualElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Headphones&hash=item1c1816b506

It seems that the rates are still high..

too late for Xmas...

TP