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Hifiman HE-4 Impressions Thread - Page 123

post #1831 of 2713

It really depends on what amp you are using with them. They are both on the warm side of neutral, very intimate (closed in) soundstage, and very dependable treble. HE-500 is better in terms of extension on both ends. The HE-500 is also great on a budget amp since it naturally has great speed/attack. If you are playing the HD600 on an amp like the Crack, it's up to par with the HE-500 in terms of speed/attack. IMO, the biggest differences between the two (other than build, price and comfort) are the HE-500's better extension (only going to notice if you listen to rap/EDM or have baby ears) and more forward vocals. The HD600 is more neutral in terms of vocals.

 

I didn't think they were in the same league either until I tried the HD600 on better equipment. On first listen with the Crack, I took them off and looked at my buddy and said, "holy cow, these are no longer the sluggish dynamic headphone that I remember, these sound like orthos." :D

post #1832 of 2713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thujone View Post
 

 

I'm not sure where you came up with this... That is, if you are continuing to imply that a higher powered amp will still do better than a lower powered amp. Once you have enough power and enough to handle swings, you simply don't need any more.

Actually, my experince is mostly with Balanced Solid States, which offer higher and less distorted power when compared to their single end counter parts [yea they cost more] but as others have said, if your getting the HE 4 pony up for an amp that can power it. The O2 and Vali as others have said don't do it justice. Those amps are wonderful with the DT 880 which sounds very much like the HE 4, but for the HE 4 get something a little more beefy

 

and yea, if your having to max out the voltage on your amp your going to lose current. SO an amp with oerall wattage, will provide more current even as you increase the voltage 

 

moving on, Brian finally got back to me :D my HE 4 is offically getting WOod cups and a Mini XLR calble mod ^^ I'm getting the cable half sleeved as well so it's going to look nice :3

post #1833 of 2713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mshenay View Post
 

Actually, my experince is mostly with Balanced Solid States, which offer higher and less distorted power when compared to their single end counter parts [yea they cost more] but as others have said, if your getting the HE 4 pony up for an amp that can power it. The O2 and Vali as others have said don't do it justice. Those amps are wonderful with the DT 880 which sounds very much like the HE 4, but for the HE 4 get something a little more beefy

 

and yea, if your having to max out the voltage on your amp your going to lose current. SO an amp with oerall wattage, will provide more current even as you increase the voltage

 

An amp has certain power output (calculated by voltage and current) values at a given impedance. Headphones have a certain power requirement (again, voltage and current) to reach a specific SPL (sound pressure level) aka volume. The HE-4, again, requires ~125mW to get to 105dB. The Vali puts out about 650mW at this impedance. This value already takes into account current and voltage because that's how power is calculated in the first place. The headphone does not ever receive any more than 125mW unless you turn the volume up past 105dB. The potentiometer is a variable resistor that limits the amount of voltage (power) that goes to the headphones. It doesn't matter if you have a 20W amp or a 200mW amp, at a specific volume the headphones are only receiving whatever the power requirement is for that volume.

 

All you are doing when you buy a higher power out put amp is allowing for a lot more headroom, which is never used unless you turn the volume up more.

 

In other words, the concept of 'more power=better' is completely false given two amps that already have enough. If you don't like how the O2 or Vali sound with the HE-4 it has absolutely nothing to do with power output unless you are listening at extremely loud volumes.


Edited by Thujone - 4/3/14 at 10:44am
post #1834 of 2713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thujone View Post
 

 

An amp has certain power output (calculated by voltage and current) values at a given impedance. Headphones have a certain power requirement (again, voltage and current) to reach a specific SPL (sound pressure level) aka volume. The HE-4, again, requires ~125mW to get to 105dB. The Vali puts out about 650mW at this impedance. This value already takes into account current and voltage because that's how power is calculated in the first place. The headphone does not ever receive any more than 125mW unless you turn the volume up past 105dB. The potentiometer is a variable resistor that limits the amount of voltage (power) that goes to the headphones. It doesn't matter if you have a 20W amp or a 200mW amp, at a specific volume the headphones are only receiving whatever the power requirement is for that volume.

 

All you are doing when you buy a higher power out put amp is allowing for a lot more headroom, which is never used unless you turn the volume up more.

+1 :D

post #1835 of 2713

Lol, alright. Just trying to help... :o

post #1836 of 2713
So does that mean the Vali is able to sufficiently power the HE-6 at 83db/1mw as well? Since the he4 is 86db
Edited by Soundsgoodtome - 4/3/14 at 11:22am
post #1837 of 2713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundsgoodtome View Post

So does that mean the Vali is able to sufficiently power the HE-6 at 83db/1mw as well? Since the he4 is 86db


Each 3dB increase requires a doubling of power by definition, so the HE-6 would require twice the power as the HE-4 to reach a given volume level (3 dB from 83 to 86). Roughly anyway--I doubt those specs are exact. 

If you check out the HE-4 and HE-6 on this thread (http://www.head-fi.org/t/668238/headphones-sensitivity-impedance-required-v-i-p-amplifier-gain), you will see that the HE-6 does require about twice as much power as the HE-4.

Incidentally, this table says the HE-4 needs about 1.5 W, which implies the Vali isn't enough. Neither owning a Vali nor an HE-4, I wouldn't know first hand. 

 

post #1838 of 2713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundsgoodtome View Post

So does that mean the Vali is able to sufficiently power the HE-6 at 83db/1mw as well? Since the he4 is 86db

 

Here is one of my posts with the chart that I use.

 

Based on the (calculated) nominal impedance and the output levels that Schiit has posted on their website, you'd barely be able to reach 105dB (if that) and depending on the recording (say, a really quiet one) you may not be anywhere close. I think it's safe to say that the Vali definitely doesn't have the balls in this case, haha.


Edited by Thujone - 4/3/14 at 11:44am
post #1839 of 2713
@Thujone I read your post and I could feel myself filling with rage when the other poster said "power as volume" lol

This myth that more power can somehow be used without increasing volume needs to die.
post #1840 of 2713

Amen to that!

 

I'll admit, I was bullied into believing that myth for a while... until I had the Ember and mini-X in front of me.

post #1841 of 2713
Someone still can't explain why Fang from Hifiman is saying 2W for the HE500 to shine. Now those are even more efficient HP...

Is Fang mistaken? Marketing gimmick for the ef5? Or is there some truth behind it? This gets confusing when the manufacturer says one thing and people say another.
Edited by Soundsgoodtome - 4/3/14 at 12:28pm
post #1842 of 2713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundsgoodtome View Post

Someone still can't explain why Fang from Hifiman is saying 2W for the HE500 to shine. Now those are even more efficient HP...

Is Fang mistaken? Marketing gimmick for v the ef5? Or is there some truth behind it?

 

I've wondered that myself and I think it could be for various reasons. Marketing for the HFM amps or maybe stating an amount that is by far more than enough -- just to be safe. All I know is that if you put 2W into the HE-500 you will blow out your eardrums! Even taking 1W would be very very painful.

post #1843 of 2713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundsgoodtome View Post

Someone still can't explain why Fang from Hifiman is saying 2W for the HE500 to shine. Now those are even more efficient HP...



Is Fang mistaken? Marketing gimmick for the ef5? Or is there some truth behind it? This gets confusing when the manufacturer says one thing and people say another.

 



This is purely IMO, but I imagine it is a combination of marketing gimmick for the EF5, and wanting to recommend more than enough just to be safe. If I were in his position, I'd want to make sure that people following my advice could turn up the volume way more than they should without running into distortion and then blaming me for it.
Edited by manbear - 4/3/14 at 12:36pm
post #1844 of 2713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thujone View Post
 

Amen to that!

 

I'll admit, I was bullied into believing that myth for a while... until I had the Ember and mini-X in front of me.


I believed it too. The tipping point was playing around with different resistor set-ups on the Mini-X. Not only did this require me to learn enough physics to understand what's going on, but I also saw firsthand that I could use resistors to go from something like 10 watts max with no resistors to 120mw max with 300 ohm resistors, and the amp sounded the same either way. (With the HE-400)

post #1845 of 2713
I think the safe side thing makes sense specially when put that when people run into distortion at lower powered amp then there's finger pointing and then bad reviews.

I wonder how they'll market the 560 and 400i in power requirements/recommendations since part of their claim are more efficiency...
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