Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Headphones (full-size) › Sennheiser removed "The Veil" in 2007
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Sennheiser removed "The Veil" in 2007 - Page 3

post #31 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aflac View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by pp312 View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dibster View Post

My impressions on my month-old HD650's would support this. They're brighter than my K701's. basshead.gif



Couldn't let this pass as it would have to be the most outlandish single statement I've ever read on Head-Fi. I've used HD650s for years. When I bought a 702 just out of curiosity, I ran screaming from the room in horror at their brightness. No comparison--none. The 701/702 is a solar flare compared to the nightlight that is the 650.    


I'll add my comment that while I in no way think the HD650s are brighter than the K701, I do recognize that they (the HD650s) did have some kind of treble resonance that didn't sit well with my ears, I think around 10k-14k. I posted a thread about it and a few other people agreed with me, so it's definitely not an isolated incident. I had the old version, too, so if anything, the "new version" would exacerbate this problem. Just chiming in with my experience.

 

EDIT: thread is here: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/511362/not-sure-if-i-like-hd650s-where-do-i-go-from-here

 

FWIW i didn't find the HD650s to be "veiled" at all, out of the SSMH - sure, they were smooth and laid back relative to Grados, but not "sit at the beach while sipping mojitos" laid back and not "behind a thick velvet stage curtain' veiled.



Your impressions are of course as valid as anyone else's. I can only say that I listen to classical/orchestral music, perhaps the hardest genre to get right (especially massed strings) and I hear no resonance in the 650s; indeed I've found them amazingly smooth and one of the few phones that allows me to ignore the means and just listen to the music. I did however hear a very severe metallic resonance in the 702 (like the ringing of a struck anvil, as I once described it) that caused me to decide not to perservere with burning it in as I knew it would never suit me. Later, out of curiosity about their very flat FR, I bought a pair of 601s and immediately noticed the same resonance/colouration. I have not noticed this effect on any other headphone and I've heard a hell of a lot. Even the Beyer DT880, which I found startlingly bright, did not exhibit such a resonance. I'm mystified as no one else has mentioned this effect, and I can only assume it was some sort of weird interaction between the bowl cavity and my ears (which, however, are perfectly normal in shape). If someone could offer a more plausible explanation I'd be grateful.

 

As for a treble resonance in the 650 at 10-14khz, it's unlikely as the FR drops off rapidly above 10kh. There is a peak lower down, but no worse than most phones exhibit, and still at a lower level than the output below 1khz. There may be ear/cavity synergistic forces at work here.

 

  graphCompare.php?graphType=0&graphID[]=853

 

 

 

   

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #32 of 37

I thought I'd post to say that I found a guy on another forum who thought the HD 650s had peaks at around 3k, 5k, 8k, and 14k and it seems right to me. I find that the upper mids and highs can be too loud and somewhat fatiguing at times, unfortunately.

 

 

EDIT; "the FR drops off rapidly above 10kh" No. it doesn't, this region is loud-ish, pretty sure. Those graphs just aren't very accurate.

 

I've never noticed any ringing tho.


Edited by Satellite_6 - 11/22/10 at 5:55pm
post #33 of 37

 

You'll find all phones measure bumpy above 1khz; it's impossible to make statements like "there's peaks at this, this and this frequency--or that's what my ears tell me". The general consensus is that the 650 has an exceptional smooth and relaxing sound, which of course is not the same as saying that no one will find fault with them. For the price I find them a very satisfying compromise.   

 

As for their being "loud-ish" above 10khz...I have no explanation for that impression. I can only say that I find it bizarre. 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Satellite_6 View Post

I thought I'd post to say that I found a guy on another forum who thought the HD 650s had peaks at around 3k, 5k, 8k, and 14k and it seems right to me. I find that the upper mids and highs can be too loud and somewhat fatiguing at times, unfortunately.

 

post #34 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by pp312 View Post

 

You'll find all phones measure bumpy above 1khz; it's impossible to make statements like "there's peaks at this, this and this frequency--or that's what my ears tell me". The general consensus is that the 650 has an exceptional smooth and relaxing sound, which of course is not the same as saying that no one will find fault with them. For the price I find them a very satisfying compromise.   

 

As for their being "loud-ish" above 10khz...I have no explanation for that impression. I can only say that I find it bizarre. 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Satellite_6 View Post

I thought I'd post to say that I found a guy on another forum who thought the HD 650s had peaks at around 3k, 5k, 8k, and 14k and it seems right to me. I find that the upper mids and highs can be too loud and somewhat fatiguing at times, unfortunately.

 

I love them to death, but to me this is the one annoying flaw. Maybe it's my amp, but I doubt it. Do you have the silver backed version? (just asking in case it matters). 

 

On my HD 650s the upper mids and highs are simply louder than the lower mids - this I'm 100% sure of. 
 

post #35 of 37

Yes, I do have the silver version. I can't comment on your amp as I'm not familiar with it, and I'm not a great believer in amps making a huge difference anyway. One thing that does make a difference is burn in, so I wonder how many hours you've got on your phones.

 

It's interesting that you're complaining about the very thing that I'm most sensitive to: excessive brightness, especially in the upper mids. Yet now when I think back, I did initially have a complaint similar to yours: that the 650 was a little "hot" in the upper mids; I actually preferred the 555/595 series. It took me quite a long time to overcome this objection, and now I don't know if it was me getting used to the phones or the phones burning in. I can only say that I now consider the 650 one of the most benign, least fatiguing phones on the market, and I've listened to most in that price range. So my advice would be: don't give up; the 650 is worth the effort. Burn them in as much as possible. Listen to varied material and ask yourself if it sounds like live music--not does it sound better or worse, brighter or duller than some other phone, but does it sound realistic (assuming, of course, that you're familiar with the sound of live music). Consider the reputation of the 650 and all the rave user reviews; it was this that kept me persevering, and I'm glad I did.  

 

Incidentally, have you listened to the 600 at all? What you're asying about the 650s upper-mids to me applies more aptly to the 600.  

 

post #36 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Satellite_6 View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by pp312 View Post

 

You'll find all phones measure bumpy above 1khz; it's impossible to make statements like "there's peaks at this, this and this frequency--or that's what my ears tell me". The general consensus is that the 650 has an exceptional smooth and relaxing sound, which of course is not the same as saying that no one will find fault with them. For the price I find them a very satisfying compromise.   

 

As for their being "loud-ish" above 10khz...I have no explanation for that impression. I can only say that I find it bizarre. 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Satellite_6 View Post

I thought I'd post to say that I found a guy on another forum who thought the HD 650s had peaks at around 3k, 5k, 8k, and 14k and it seems right to me. I find that the upper mids and highs can be too loud and somewhat fatiguing at times, unfortunately.

 

I love them to death, but to me this is the one annoying flaw. Maybe it's my amp, but I doubt it. Do you have the silver backed version? (just asking in case it matters). 

 

On my HD 650s the upper mids and highs are simply louder than the lower mids - this I'm 100% sure of. 
 


I highly suggest you explore the Fostex T50 RP...the upper midrange and trebles is not as aggressive as on the HD650s - moreover, the trebles are more defined...significantly more.  The T50 has more body to the midrange - the HD650s have a leaner midrange in direct comparison to the T50s.

post #37 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by pp312 View Post

Yes, I do have the silver version. I can't comment on your amp as I'm not familiar with it, and I'm not a great believer in amps making a huge difference anyway. One thing that does make a difference is burn in, so I wonder how many hours you've got on your phones.

 

It's interesting that you're complaining about the very thing that I'm most sensitive to: excessive brightness, especially in the upper mids. Yet now when I think back, I did initially have a complaint similar to yours: that the 650 was a little "hot" in the upper mids; I actually preferred the 555/595 series. It took me quite a long time to overcome this objection, and now I don't know if it was me getting used to the phones or the phones burning in. I can only say that I now consider the 650 one of the most benign, least fatiguing phones on the market, and I've listened to most in that price range. So my advice would be: don't give up; the 650 is worth the effort. Burn them in as much as possible. Listen to varied material and ask yourself if it sounds like live music--not does it sound better or worse, brighter or duller than some other phone, but does it sound realistic (assuming, of course, that you're familiar with the sound of live music). Consider the reputation of the 650 and all the rave user reviews; it was this that kept me persevering, and I'm glad I did.  

 

Incidentally, have you listened to the 600 at all? What you're asying about the 650s upper-mids to me applies more aptly to the 600.  

 



 

I have had them for almost a year. It's not terribly excessive, but it's there. I love them to much to give up on them, nothing is perfect and they are ridiculously resolving, even with my modest source. I haven't tried the HD 600s. . . 

 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SP Wild View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by Satellite_6 View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by pp312 View Post

 

You'll find all phones measure bumpy above 1khz; it's impossible to make statements like "there's peaks at this, this and this frequency--or that's what my ears tell me". The general consensus is that the 650 has an exceptional smooth and relaxing sound, which of course is not the same as saying that no one will find fault with them. For the price I find them a very satisfying compromise.   

 

As for their being "loud-ish" above 10khz...I have no explanation for that impression. I can only say that I find it bizarre. 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Satellite_6 View Post

I thought I'd post to say that I found a guy on another forum who thought the HD 650s had peaks at around 3k, 5k, 8k, and 14k and it seems right to me. I find that the upper mids and highs can be too loud and somewhat fatiguing at times, unfortunately.

 

I love them to death, but to me this is the one annoying flaw. Maybe it's my amp, but I doubt it. Do you have the silver backed version? (just asking in case it matters). 

 

On my HD 650s the upper mids and highs are simply louder than the lower mids - this I'm 100% sure of. 
 


I highly suggest you explore the Fostex T50 RP...the upper midrange and trebles is not as aggressive as on the HD650s - moreover, the trebles are more defined...significantly more.  The T50 has more body to the midrange - the HD650s have a leaner midrange in direct comparison to the T50s.


More defined, oh really? I find that hard to believe but that is interesting. 

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Headphones (full-size)

Gear mentioned in this thread:

Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Headphones (full-size) › Sennheiser removed "The Veil" in 2007