Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Dedicated Source Components › "DIAMOND" vs. "NEUTRAL" Audio-GD DACs - who has COMPARED? Or are DSP1 - REVISIONS more crucial?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

"DIAMOND" vs. "NEUTRAL" Audio-GD DACs - who has COMPARED? Or are DSP1 - REVISIONS more crucial? - Page 5

post #61 of 158

Ipodpj, yeah you're right about leaving gear on 24/7 being bad :p there is always a greater risk of your gear blowing up when left on longer or unattended. If for some reason you have no circuit breaker in your electrical system I would definitely look into good surge protection before even using the gear.

post #62 of 158
Thread Starter 

My Re 9 arrived today! 1st impression: Not at all warm sounding - at least not warmer than my Creek CD 50 mk II player. The latter has an internal NOS dac. Sounds more direct, with the Creek it is like playing the piano (I know what I talk about, as I actually do play it...), while listening with Re 9 it is like being part of the public. Perhaps this is how it should sound like, though... However, it sounds very detailed, but for my 1st impression a bit on the analytical side, perhaps a bit too cold...? I was trying to figure out if the "groove" did get its way to my soul... Might be a question of getting my ears used to it or about "burning in", i'll keep you posted about my impressions...

post #63 of 158


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ursdiego View Post

. Might be a question of getting my ears used to it or about "burning in", i'll keep you posted about my impressions...

 

Congrats on your Ref9.

 

Popular opinion is that their Dacs do not burn in and the sound stays the same.

 

My opinion differs from that...

 

I would be curious what your honest experience will be 2 months from now.
 

post #64 of 158

I am not sure if mine have changed. I did perceive it as Ursdiego say a bit brighter then the DAC19 for example. And that hasn´t changed. But my ears are more tuned in to it for good and for bad. Good as in I created a new reference and bad in the way there is little new toy syndrome going on by now ;)

 

post #65 of 158

Odd that the DD series is perceived exactly the opposite as designed.

 

I wonder if the source component has anything to do with it, I am willing to bet AGD does not use a computer as a source for the voicing of its products...just a guess.

 

Either way its still odd that the DD series is being perceived exactly the opposite as designed.

post #66 of 158

Not to my ears- I think that was only one opinion. I have said before, the musical series is not lush or rounded at all- it's all in comparison to the ACSS series to be defined as musical.

You're still talking about the same chip with similar power supply (Ref-9/8/7).


Edited by tim3320070 - 11/16/10 at 5:21pm
post #67 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynobot View Post

Odd that the DD series is perceived exactly the opposite as designed.

 

I wonder if the source component has anything to do with it, I am willing to bet AGD does not use a computer as a source for the voicing of its products...just a guess.

 

Either way its still odd that the DD series is being perceived exactly the opposite as designed.


No Western customers mis interpreted the webpage.    Define "musical" in Chinese and then in English and then write a paper comparing/contrasting the two definitions.  You might get a PhD out of it.
 

post #68 of 158

I have used my oppoand computer primarily. Got the RCA to BNC cable yesterday so tried BNC, RCA and optical. There is very little difference between the transports but quite big regarding fan noise levels.

 

KingWa have described the musical series as slightly warmer. So it depends I suppose if the Ref 7 is also colder sounding then the DAC19?

post #69 of 158
Thread Starter 

Hahaha :) Yes, Regal, I agree on that. Not even in English it seems clear to me what musical should mean. I will start my Phd here... (in any case it is easier than the one I try to finish in the "real world"!)

 

"Musical" is a nice word, used by any of us so called "audiophiles" just in the way each one likes. According to THIS definition, an audiophile is more in love with the engineering than with the music. So how should "we" audio-gear-o-philes know, what the term "musical" means...?

 

In any case, what I expect from my gear is to make canned music sound as fresh as possible. Any flavor should be a flavor of the music itself, not of the gear. However, one thing is clear: It is all just an illusion. What I want is to get the illusion of live music. So, when talking about all this electronic stuff used to give the live feeling back to conserved music, "musical" would mean for me exactly the same as "neutral". However, we newer know, how the "real" sound was like, before it got canned... so the PhD turns out to be purely speculative...

 

If that's all there is, let's just enjoy the music - and for those, who are more in love with the technical stuff than with the music, enjoy the gadgets ;-) . I'll keep up listening and trying to open up my heart for this new way, music comes into my living room with the Re 9... For now it gives me a distant feeling.

 

Its like the feeling when you are about to enter a room where somebody is playing music: This wish to come closer. It is a nice feeling though, and it is pretty realistic with the Re 9, but the feeling to be "in" the room would be more desirable for me. Listening to my turntable, I can get such a feeling of being really just part of it. For moments, I can get the illusion of a direct proximity without anything in between, and I like it. It is personal taste however... This is, when I can get strong emotions even from conserved music. Perhaps the sound of the Re9 will come closer over time.


Edited by ursdiego - 11/17/10 at 2:31am
post #70 of 158


Great post,  you and I agree completely in what we want from our system.   I come at it from the engineering side and know that a mic and an ADC in a studio or at a concert is not even close to an electronic substitute of the ear and the perception of hearing,   yet there are those who only want to hear from their DAC what that mic captured to binary nothing more.  Welcome to head-fi,  you have a great head on your shoulders, play on words intended.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ursdiego View Post

Hahaha :) Yes, Regal, I agree on that. Not even in English it seems clear to me what musical should mean. I will start my Phd here... (in any case it is easier than the one I try to finish in the "real world"!)

 

"Musical" is a nice word, used by any of us so called "audiophiles" just in the way each one likes. According to THIS definition, an audiophile is more in love with the engineering than with the music. So how should "we" audio-gear-o-philes know, what the term "musical" means...?

 

In any case, what I expect from my gear is to make canned music sound as fresh as possible. Any flavor should be a flavor of the music itself, not of the gear. However, one thing is clear: It is all just an illusion. What I want is to get the illusion of live music. So, when talking about all this electronic stuff used to give the live feeling back to conserved music, "musical" would mean for me exactly the same as "neutral". However, we newer know, how the "real" sound was like, before it got canned... so the PhD turns out to be purely speculative...

 

If that's all there is, let's just enjoy the music - and for those, who are more in love with the technical stuff than with the music, enjoy the gadgets ;-) . I'll keep up listening and trying to open up my heart for this new way, music comes into my living room with the Re 9... For now it gives me a distant feeling.

 

Its like the feeling when you are about to enter a room where somebody is playing music: This wish to come closer. It is a nice feeling though, and it is pretty realistic with the Re 9, but the feeling to be "in" the room would be more desirable for me. Listening to my turntable, I can get such a feeling of being really just part of it. For moments, I can get the illusion of a direct proximity without anything in between, and I like it. It is personal taste however... This is, when I can get strong emotions even from conserved music. Perhaps the sound of the Re9 will come closer over time.


Edited by regal - 11/17/10 at 3:50am
post #71 of 158

I don't think the website translation is wrong. In the Chinese page they call DD "neutral, but slightly warm/soft". English page they call it "slightly warm/soft". Although the English version is more open to interpretation, they both mean just about the same thing.

 

There's a few other things I think should be considered. First, I have read that on acss neutral gear, they made rca output roll off high freqs earlier than acss output on purpose, and according to my ears this is true. Secondly, Kingwa himself has said that different designers have different interpretations of "neutral", or "what is the closest approximation of real life music". Third, component matching can make some gear sound neutral when they aren't, or sound unneutral when they are in fact neutral.

 

I think the general consensus is that audio-gd's neutral acss gear sound "neutral" with acss connection, and more smooth with rca/xlr.


Edited by haloxt - 11/17/10 at 5:28am
post #72 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by regal View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynobot View Post

Odd that the DD series is perceived exactly the opposite as designed.

 

I wonder if the source component has anything to do with it, I am willing to bet AGD does not use a computer as a source for the voicing of its products...just a guess.

 

Either way its still odd that the DD series is being perceived exactly the opposite as designed.


No Western customers mis interpreted the webpage.    Define "musical" in Chinese and then in English and then write a paper comparing/contrasting the two definitions.  You might get a PhD out of it.
 


Could be, but the AGD site explicitly states what is seen below and Kingwa knows enough English to be able to tell if these English translations are correct.

 

Instead of changing the rules to agree with sonic perceptions I would assume that there must be something going on in the application of the product that changes it character from its intended design of "warm and soft" to analytical and neutral. 

 

 

 

 

Neutral flavors (ACSS applied):
             "Neutral" is neutral and faithful like, doesn't have any particular character. Usually we apply the ACSS technology to get neutral sound. Neutral gears sound depends on the source, they can reveal to you the merits or shortcomings of your source and the musical files. If the source and the musical files have high level of sound quality, it sounds much like reality, without harshness and brightness. If the source and the musical files sound musical, they also sound musical. But if you use a cheap DVD player with our neutral gear, you may only hear how bad the dvd player is.
         So I think, use of the word "neutral and faithful" will be better than the use of "neutral".


       Musical flavors (Diamond Difference applied):
         The musical flavors mean the gears always have a little coloration, slightly on the warm and soft side, it can bedeck the shortcomings of your source and musical files, even if the original sound is harsh and dry, they can let the sound become a bit richer and smoother. Usually we apply the diamond difference amp technology to get the musical sound. The diamond difference amp technology is the best for musical flavors in my mind, its sound is slightly on warm side and a bit soft but still keeps excellent detail and dynamic reproduction, not like some other amp technologies that may sound warm and soft but also muddy.

post #73 of 158



My musical series AG DAC is warm, soft, analytical, and neutral.   Have you heard one?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynobot View Post


Could be, but the AGD site explicitly states what is seen below and Kingwa knows enough English to be able to tell if these English translations are correct.

 

Instead of changing the rules to agree with sonic perceptions I would assume that there must be something going on in the application of the product that changes it character from its intended design of "warm and soft" to analytical and neutral. 

 

 

post #74 of 158

Have you guys considered that the new Ver.5 DSP1 upgrade has altered the characteristics of the DD series. IMO not quite for the better.

post #75 of 158


No never heard one, it would be interesting to determine its sonic signature in my system.  I would assume that all DD "musical" products have the same qualities.

 

Warm, soft, analytical, and neutral reminds me of my Anthem Preamp I used to own, it lacked nothing that a SS pre had, but added just a touch or warm and musicality to the mix.

 

Maybe a musical product is in my future.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by regal View Post



My musical series AG DAC is warm, soft, analytical, and neutral.   Have you heard one?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynobot View Post


Could be, but the AGD site explicitly states what is seen below and Kingwa knows enough English to be able to tell if these English translations are correct.

 

Instead of changing the rules to agree with sonic perceptions I would assume that there must be something going on in the application of the product that changes it character from its intended design of "warm and soft" to analytical and neutral. 

 

 

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Dedicated Source Components
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Dedicated Source Components › "DIAMOND" vs. "NEUTRAL" Audio-GD DACs - who has COMPARED? Or are DSP1 - REVISIONS more crucial?